Believers and Disbelievers

[ArtieE]

Yes because the body is corrupted, again, the car metaphor.

The driver is conscious, the car brakes malfunctioned.
Now even though the driver is conscious but the car shows him not.

I suppose people who believe in reincarnation love this metaphor. Car breaks down completely, driver just gets a new one.

 

[FearGod]

I suppose people who believe in reincarnation love this metaphor. Car breaks down completely, driver just gets a new one.

Maybe, but no one can be sure about it.

 

[psychoslice]

I used to think critically about Quran earlier. I was able to find answers for every critical question that arised in my mind.

Now I am in such a state that I am not able to think critically about it because I trust it completely. I am 100℅ sure that Qur'an is from Allah. You might call this blind faith. But I am happy with my faith. My vision is more clear, when I view the world through the lens given by Qur'an.

That's good, but can you also understand others who think the same as you with their scriptures, and their way of interpreting the scriptures, I ,mean are you happy for them also ?.

 

[Rajina]

That's good, but can you also understand others who think the same as you with their scriptures, and their way of interpreting the scriptures, I ,mean are you happy for them also ?.

There are thousands of religions around the world. All these religions cannot be true at the same time. There should be something called 'the ultimate truth'.

Suppose that a person says 2+2=4. There is another person who says 2+2=5. There are thousands of people with different answers for 2+2. There is another category of people who says "there is no solution for 2+2, since there are thousands of different solutions its impossible to find the correct one, Its OK to continue our math without the solution for 2+2".

Each one believes what they are saying is the ultimate truth.

I believe that Islam is the ultimate truth. From the Islamic perspective I am able to understand why there are so much other religions and what has gone wrong with them. There would be people of other religions who says exactly the same thing.

What we can do is, read more, Learn more, think more, and discuss with each other about our beliefs openly and try to understand the beliefs of other people.

 

[LegionOnomaMoi]

I stopped watching as soon as the guy starting asking people for examples that didn't have to be taken on faith.
In science, you ask an authority for such examples.

You appeal to authoritative research, never to "an authority" (that's what non-scientists do, I've found- appeal to this or that scientists as an authority figure, which is fine for argumentation or to form one's position on an issue but isn't "science"). But we can see evidence for evolution in generations of fruit flies. The video was ridiculous. Darwin's view originated because of empirical (observable) evidence, not the fossil record or appeals to how life was millions of years ago.

 

[Deathbydefault]

You appeal to authoritative research, never to "an authority" (that's what non-scientists do, I've found- appeal to this or that scientists as an authority figure, which is fine for argumentation or to form one's position on an issue but isn't "science"). But we can see evidence for evolution in generations of fruit flies. The video was ridiculous. Darwin's view originated because of empirical (observable) evidence, not the fossil record or appeals to how life was millions of years ago.

I generally agree.

 

[ArtieE]

What we can do is, read more, Learn more, think more, and discuss with each other about our beliefs openly and try to understand the beliefs of other people.

What we can do is stop believing in all these different religions and stop claiming "my religion is the correct one". Instead we should all pull together and concentrate our efforts on finding this "ultimate truth".

 

[FearGod]

You just said that a person who copies the bad example of their friends is not being wise. So if that person does repent at a later time, then they have indeed become more wise than they were before. You say "stupid" but I think the better term is "ignorant". A person can be intelligent while simply lacking understanding in one or more areas.

Not about ignorance, because those who repented may repeat the same previous awful things.

If there was literally no advantage that normal vision has over being far-sighted, then being far-sighted would not be considered a bad thing. Being far-sighted does make it more difficult to read written language, which would have had its own survival and/or reproductive value. The ability to read and write would have improved our ability to learn and pass down information (including information important to survival) through the generations. A group of primitive people who could write more quickly and clearly because of good eyesight would have had a survival advantage over those that would have more trouble reading and writing.

Lol, did they need reading and writing before hundreds of thousands of years ago?

Also, how would you go about determining whether a particular design was created by an intelligence or by a natural process? What test would you use and how would you know that it is accurate?

Natural process doesn't make sense because there's no escape from involving randomness and chances as a factor in it.

What is a "perfect" eye? There is no perfect eye. Even some animals have superior eyesight to us in certain ways. The sight that infants have is given to them by genes they inherited from their ancestors which were honed by selection pressures (as the other parts of our discussion are already addressing).

I see it perfect for me, and natural selection doesn't explain why we have the same precision of vision since a little variations
among the population can still survive and pass their genes to the next generations.

That depends upon the rules of the race. If a prize is only given to the person in first place, then it effectively doesn't matter if the others cross the finish line or not: only the winner is rewarded. Given enough time, a trait which gives even a slight advantage would come to dominate the gene pool. The more slight the advantage is, the longer it will take for the trait to be fixed. Barring chance events (such as the first carrier of the trait getting killed prematurely), it will eventually dominate the gene pool. Thus, only the winner is rewarded with continued existence.

Natural selection doesn't work like that, all who survive will pass their genes to the next generation, those who can't make it
will die and hence their genes won't pass which leads to extinction.

The point is that computer and the computer program cannot be in disagreement because one is an integral part of the other (unless an internal conflict like a malfunction occurs).

How a computer is compared to a conscious mind ?, your metaphor doesn't work here because computers are programmed.

I already explained that. The part of the brain which controls the hand is not communicating properly with the part of the brain that supports conscious awareness. It behaves, in effect, like two smaller brains.

Which part is this that supports conscious awareness?

If it's because the soul can't manage the body, then why is it possible to pinpoint a physical cause (a lack of proper communication between different parts of the brain)?

The soul can't manage or fix the damaged part of the physical body, exactly like a driver controlling a car, if there's a problem
in the car then the driver will suffer and lose control.

 

[ArtieE]

The soul can't manage or fix the damaged part of the physical body, exactly like a driver controlling a car, if there's a problem
in the car then the driver will suffer and lose control.

1. Where was the driver before he got into the car?
2. Where does the driver go when he exists the car?
3. How long has the driver existed?
4. Where did the driver get his drivers license?
5. Did he have to drive smaller or different vehicles first before he was given a car?
6. What will happen to him if he keeps crashing his cars?
7. Can he take on passengers?
8. Can his car be hijacked?
9. If the driver gets sick (if he can) can it affect the car physically?
10. If there is something wrong with the car can it affect the driver mentally?

 

[Rajina]

What we can do is stop believing in all these different religions and stop claiming "my religion is the correct one". Instead we should all pull together and concentrate our efforts on finding this "ultimate truth".

Stop believing? How?

 

[FearGod]

1. Where was the driver before he got into the car?
2. Where does the driver go when he exists the car?
3. How long has the driver existed?
4. Where did the driver get his drivers license?
5. Did he have to drive smaller or different vehicles first before he was given a car?
6. What will happen to him if he keeps crashing his cars?
7. Can he take on passengers?
8. Can his car be hijacked?
9. If the driver gets sick (if he can) can it affect the car physically?
10. If there is something wrong with the car can it affect the driver mentally?

I don't have the answers.

And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."(17:85)

 

[Jumi]

Stop believing? How?

I'm thinking the same about believing. But it's also interesting to know the other side.

 

[ArtieE]

Stop believing? How?

I don't know I never started believing in any religion. It would be nice though if people who spend their time, efforts and money on their religion and playing "my religion is truer than your religion" could have set aside all their beliefs, start with a blank sheet and spend their time, efforts and money finding out what is actually going on.

 

[ArtieE]

I don't have the answers.

And they ask you, [O Muhammad], about the soul. Say, "The soul is of the affair of my Lord. And mankind have not been given of knowledge except a little."(17:85)

What nonsense. If there's a soul it's MY soul not HIS! I have a right to know about myself! Contact this Lord of yours and demand a proper explanation!

 

[FearGod]

What nonsense. If there's a soul it's MY soul not HIS! I have a right to know about myself! Contact this Lord of yours and demand a proper explanation!

If yo can't realize your own soul then it's your own problem.

 

[muhammad_isa]

What nonsense. If there's a soul it's MY soul not HIS! I have a right to know about myself!

Sorry, but you are wrong .. You are in charge of it, yes, and God has given us guidance if we wish to take heed .. but at 'the end of the day' , all souls belong to God and will eventually return
ie. upon physical death

 

[ArtieE]

If yo can't realize your own soul then it's your own problem.

Contact this god of yours, give him my list and demand answers!

 

[FearGod]

Contact this god of yours, give him my list and demand answers!

I said to you we have no way to know, you can believe or disbelieve, it's up to you after all.

 

[ArtieE]

I said to you we have no way to know, you can believe or disbelieve, it's up to you after all.

So there's no way of contacting this god, he doesn't have a cell phone or email address or anything? In 2016?

 

[FearGod]

So there's no way of contacting this god, he doesn't have a cell phone or email address or anything? In 2016?

there's, if you try to approach God with sincerity then you'll get the answer, but by closing your heart
then it'll be even more closed, it returns to you to find the answers and not me.