Believers and Disbelievers

[viole]

there's, if you try to approach God with sincerity then you'll get the answer, but by closing your heart
then it'll be even more closed, it returns to you to find the answers and not me.

We do not think with the heart, usually. Its job is to pump blood, not to think rationally.

Ciao

- viole

 

[Rajina]

I don't know I never started believing in any religion. It would be nice though if people who spend their time, efforts and money on their religion and playing "my religion is truer than your religion" could have set aside all their beliefs, start with a blank sheet and spend their time, efforts and money finding out what is actually going on.

We cannot make someone or ourselves start/stop believing something forcefully. We start believing something when we realize that its true and we stop believing something when we realize that its false. Inorder to realize the truth, first of all we should have the willingness to know and accept the truth.

If u think that every people who spent their money, time and efforts on religion are playing and having fun by showing that 'my religion is truer than yours', you are wrong. There may be people who are doing that for fun. But that's not the case with majority of people. Most of them do this with an intention to help others realize the truth and save them from the hell fire. Since you do not believe that there is a hell, you might find this silly. But for a believer, its a serious matter.

 

[FearGod]

We do not think with the heart, usually. Its job is to pump blood, not to think rationally.

Ciao

- viole

I believe faith will be in the heart, you can't see God to believe that he does exist.

 

[Jumi]

If u think that every people who spent their money, time and efforts on religion are playing and having fun by showing that 'my religion is truer than yours', you are wrong. There may be people who are doing that for fun. But that's not the case with majority of people. Most of them do this with an intention to help others realize the truth and save them from the hell fire. Since you do not believe that there is a hell, you might find this silly. But for a believer, its a serious matter.

Many religions don't believe in God throwing people to hellfire.

 

[FearGod]

Many religions don't believe in God throwing people to hellfire.

Just for the sake of argument, if it happened that the judgement day was real and you were asked
why you disbelieved about the hellfire, what's your answer will be?

 

[ArtieE]

We cannot make someone or ourselves start/stop believing something forcefully. We start believing something when we realize that its true

Logically impossible since there's an estimated 4,200 religions and they can't all be true even though all their believers "realize that its true."

If u think that every people who spent their money, time and efforts on religion are playing and having fun by showing that 'my religion is truer than yours', you are wrong. There may be people who are doing that for fun. But that's not the case with majority of people. Most of them do this with an intention to help others realize the truth

There you go again. "My religion says the truth not yours".

 

[Jumi]

Just for the sake of argument, if it happened that the judgement day was real and you were asked
why you disbelieved about the hellfire, what's your answer will be?

There was no proof for it. There is lots of things humans know that have proof. What will yours be when you discover there isn't heaven or hell?

 

[FearGod]

There was no proof for it. There is lots of things humans know that have proof. What will yours be when you discover there isn't heaven or hell?

Will you believe then if there was a proof that hell does exist?

 

[Jumi]

Will you believe then if there was a proof that hell does exist?

I will believe anything that can be proven conclusively. Reincarnation, hell of Islam, hell of Christianity, Hades, the afterlife beliefs of my ancestors... none have yet to be shown true.

What will you say was the reason you didn't believe if you find yourself in some other afterlife like Hades?

 

[RRex]

Mmm, hell.

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it.

I have enough to deal with as it is without worrying about the bleeding afterlife.

 

[muhammad_isa]

Mmm, hell.

I'll cross that bridge when I come to it...

..it might not be an easy bridge to cross .. a bit of preparation would be useful..
..who knows, it might help with the worldly problems too..

 

[FearGod]

I will believe anything that can be proven conclusively. Reincarnation, hell of Islam, hell of Christianity, Hades, the afterlife beliefs of my ancestors... none have yet to be shown true.

What will you say was the reason you didn't believe if you find yourself in some other afterlife like Hades?

What things that Hades had foretold to happen as a sign for us to believe.

 

[RRex]

..it might not be an easy bridge to cross .. a bit of preparation would be useful..
..who knows, it might help with the worldly problems too..

My plate is full. I'm dealing with a full-blown dementia patient.

 

[Parsimony]

Not about ignorance, because those who repented may repeat the same previous awful things.

Ignorance is a lack of knowledge or understanding. You're saying that a person who repents hasn't learned anything? Why then did they repent if they don't know what was wrong with their past actions?

Lol, did they need reading and writing before hundreds of thousands of years ago?

What we are now is a culmination of all evolutionary changes that happened in both the distant and recent past. When humans began to read and write, that ability would have exerted its own selective pressures on us because it was beneficial. That would have had an effect on the way our eyes evolved. Was our eyesight the same before we developed reading and writing as it is now? I do not know, nor do I know how we could tell for sure.

Natural process doesn't make sense because there's no escape from involving randomness and chances as a factor in it.

So no, you don't have a test. You also know very well that selection pressures do not allow all genotypes to survive and reproduce equally well. That is how the randomness of mutation is sifted to produce non-random results.

I see it perfect for me, and natural selection doesn't explain why we have the same precision of vision since a little variations
among the population can still survive and pass their genes to the next generations.

Not equally well. As I am about to explain in my next point, two people surviving into adulthood are not necessarily equally fit.

Natural selection doesn't work like that, all who survive will pass their genes to the next generation, those who can't make it
will die and hence their genes won't pass which leads to extinction.

That is not necessarily true, because:

(1) Surviving into adulthood does not automatically guarantee that one will reproduce.
(2) Those that do reproduce do not reproduce equally well (not all people produce the same number of children nor do all children have an equal chance of surviving into adulthood, plus not all children who make it into adulthood will reproduce themselves).
(3) Those that reproduce do not reproduce at the same rate (some are able to acquire mates earlier and reproduce faster than others).

How a computer is compared to a conscious mind ?, your metaphor doesn't work here because computers are programmed.

We are programmed, just not in the same way as computers are. We are programmed by genetics and epigenetics (which give us our instincts) and by our experiences (from which we learn and help us in making active decisions).

Which part is this that supports conscious awareness?

There are probably several parts of the brain involved, but one of the most important regions is probably the cerebrum: infants born without cerebrums (so-called anencephalic infants) are not consciously aware.

The soul can't manage or fix the damaged part of the physical body, exactly like a driver controlling a car, if there's a problem
in the car then the driver will suffer and lose control.

If the mind/soul was like a "driver" of the physical body but not actually a part of the physical body/brain, then damage to the body/brain should not affect the mind. Sure, you'd expect there to be control impairment, with the body not doing exactly as the mind wants, but you wouldn't expect the mind itself (such as reasoning or conscious-awareness) to be affected just by manipulating the brain (since you seem to be arguing that the mind is separate from the brain). A person's rational thinking ability should not be affected by things like drugs, alcohol or brain damage, yet that is what we see.

Yes because the body is corrupted, again, the car metaphor.

The driver is conscious, the car brakes malfunctioned.
Now even though the driver is conscious but the car shows him not.

If something in the car is broken, that doesn't affect the driver. If something in the brain is broken, that can affect the mind (as I showed above). That's the difference.

 

[LuisDantas]

..it might not be an easy bridge to cross .. a bit of preparation would be useful..
..who knows, it might help with the worldly problems too..

Out of curiosity, is this supposed to have a clear meaning?

 

[psychoslice]

There are thousands of religions around the world. All these religions cannot be true at the same time. There should be something called 'the ultimate truth'.

Suppose that a person says 2+2=4. There is another person who says 2+2=5. There are thousands of people with different answers for 2+2. There is another category of people who says "there is no solution for 2+2, since there are thousands of different solutions its impossible to find the correct one, Its OK to continue our math without the solution for 2+2".

Each one believes what they are saying is the ultimate truth.

I believe that Islam is the ultimate truth. From the Islamic perspective I am able to understand why there are so much other religions and what has gone wrong with them. There would be people of other religions who says exactly the same thing.

What we can do is, read more, Learn more, think more, and discuss with each other about our beliefs openly and try to understand the beliefs of other people.

But again others think about their religious beliefs also, just as much as you do, in your own little box of beliefs it all sound wonderful, because that's the way it was made to be, and this is also the same with most religious beliefs.

 

[Kelly of the Phoenix]

Just for the sake of argument, if it happened that the judgement day was real and you were asked why you disbelieved about the hellfire, what's your answer will be?

Hell solves nothing. If eternal, it goes against the idea Jesus had that reward (and punishment) are relative to how much you put into morality. Give a little, get a little, etc. If hell is eternal but your stay is also eternal, then there is no point to become better. Unless you believe in no afterlife or a kind of static photograph-like existence, the fact is that if you can still think and act once dead, then you can still learn and repent. Hell is an admission God failed to save someone, so that's on HIM, not us. He surely has to be more creative and intelligent then any of our geniuses, so I have a hard time believing God's IQ is so low He has to resort to eternal punishment when He could easily have solved the dilemma while the body was still alive.

What things that Hades had foretold to happen as a sign for us to believe.

Don't know yet. Once Upon a Time doesn't come back until March.

What things prove hell? Only by GOING to hell and seeing people suffering there would prove there's a hell in the first place. Until you've pulled that off, you don't have it.

My plate is full. I'm dealing with a full-blown dementia patient.

Hell exists, but is usually in a malfunctioning brain.

I wish you well in your attempts to deal with that. If you need anything let me know.

I do not know, nor do I know how we could tell for sure.

Cuneiform is a pain in the ***. Surely you need good eyesight to read that stuff.

 

[Jumi]

What things that Hades had foretold to happen as a sign for us to believe.

If you find yourself there shouldn't that have been for you to investigate?

 

[FearGod]

If you find yourself there shouldn't that have been for you to investigate?

I won't care since i believe i'm on the right way, i don't harm anybody, i try to help
the ones in need, i avoid the bad deeds.

If the hell will be for the kind people and the paradise for the oppressors and for the bad people
then i will still be who i'm.

 

[RRex]

I wish you well in your attempts to deal with that. If you need anything let me know.

Thanks Kelly! That's very kind of you.