Believers and Disbelievers

[Jumi]

I won't care since i believe i'm on the right way, i don't harm anybody, i try to help
the ones in need, i avoid the bad deeds.

If the hell will be for the kind people and the paradise for the oppressors and for the bad people
then i will still be who i'm.

This is my view of all hells also.

 

[Rajina]

But again others think about their religious beliefs also, just as much as you do, in your own little box of beliefs it all sound wonderful, because that's the way it was made to be, and this is also the same with most religious beliefs.

The same case applies with atheism also. Atheists believe that God is a concept created by human beings and that all religions are manmade. Atheists believe that their belief is a fact and the ultimate truth. A christian believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. A Muslim believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. Everyone believes that their own belief is the ultimate truth.

But all these beliefs cannot be true at the same time.

 

[Rajina]

Logically impossible since there's an estimated 4,200 religions and they can't all be true even though all their believers "realize that its true."

There are roughly 4200 religions in the world. All these religions cannot be true at the same time. But how does this imply that all are false?

There you go again. "My religion says the truth not yours".

This is the same thing which u r also saying. "My belief that all religions are manmade is true. So everyone should keep aside their religious beliefs"

 

[Rajina]

I will believe anything that can be proven conclusively. Reincarnation, hell of Islam, hell of Christianity, Hades, the afterlife beliefs of my ancestors... none have yet to be shown true.

We cannot expect someone who died to come back and tell us the truth.

If you are not demanding for a scientific proof, then the best evidence I can show you is the Qur'an. Its not a scripture for Muslims. It's a scripture for all the human beings.

 

[ArtieE]

The same case applies with atheism also. Atheists believe that God is a concept created by human beings and that all religions are manmade. Atheists believe that their belief is a fact and the ultimate truth. A christian believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. A Muslim believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. Everyone believes that their own belief is the ultimate truth.

So all this incessant believing in things that aren't true doesn't make sense and gets us nowhere. We should stop this incessant believing in things that aren't true and actually make a joint effort to find out the ultimate truth without ones own prejudices getting in the way.

 

[Rajina]

So all this incessant believing in things that aren't true doesn't make sense and gets us nowhere. We should stop this incessant believing in things that aren't true and actually make a joint effort to find out the ultimate truth without ones own prejudices getting in the way.

How do u come to a conclusion that all religions are not true?

 

[ArtieE]

There are roughly 4200 religions in the world. All these religions cannot be true at the same time. But how does this imply that all are false?

It doesn't.

This is the same thing which u r also saying. "My belief that all religions are manmade is true. So everyone should keep aside their religious beliefs"

No, I'm saying that until we can provide objective evidence showing what is true and/or what is false with every religion we should assume that all religions are manmade. We should assume all religions are manmade unless proved otherwise.

 

[ArtieE]

How do u come to a conclusion that all religions are not true?

We should assume that all religions are manmade until we can provide objective evidence that shows beyond reasonable doubt what is true and/or false with every religion.

 

[ArtieE]

If you are not demanding for a scientific proof, then the best evidence I can show you is the Qur'an. Its not a scripture for Muslims. It's a scripture for all the human beings.

And a Christian could show you the Bible. It's not a scripture for Christians. It's a scripture for all the human beings. You do realize that such behavior is not helpful at all when it comes to finding out what the truth actually is right?

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

That simply seems to support the fact that Islam was just created out of or at least in part by older religions in the region.

Is this an argument to support the Quran or against it?

Muslims reject this talk categorically
They say that the Koran is not associated with any ancient religion
And that the Koran the word of God
This is a big problem in Islam

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Quran was revealed to Prophet Muhammad from Allah through the Angel Jibreel (Gabreil). It was revealed during a time span of 23 years. The Qur'an itself says that it is not the first scripture from Allah. The previous scriptures are Injeel(the original Gospel) revealed to Isa عليه السلام (Jesus), Thourath(The original Thorah) revealed to Musa عليه السلام (Moses) and Zaboor (the original Psalms) revealed to Davood عليه السلام(David).

Qur'an doesn't include anything which Prophet Muhammad said by himself. Everything taught by him is included in the hadeeth. Hadeeth is distinct and separate from Qur'an.[/QUOTEKoran declares hostility to the followers of Moses and Christ ??
So how can you differentiate linking this contradiction?
If Mohammed accepted the Jewish faith?
So why the war against them ?? announced]

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

I had answered your question and here it's again with God's words

Say, "Is it other than Allah I should desire as a lord while He is the Lord of all things? And every soul earns not [blame] except against itself, and no bearer of burdens will bear the burden of another. Then to your Lord is your return, and He will inform you concerning that over which you used to differ."(6:164)

Your answer is clear
Because you do not provide explicit answer
The verse that provided they are copied
States in fighting the infidels, Jews and Christians
And also the verse which says it does not accept Islam as a religion to him it would not be acceptable and is in the final of the losers
Islam does not accept faith in God only
Must be between God and Muhammad

 

[Rajina]

And a Christian could show you the Bible. It's not a scripture for Christians. It's a scripture for all the human beings. You do realize that such behavior is not helpful at all when it comes to finding out what the truth actually is right?

I didn't mean that Qur'an is a divine scripture just because its a scripture for all human beings. There are lots of such scriptures. I just meant that you shouldn't feel reluctant to learn it thinking that its a scripture for muslims.

 

[Rajina]

We should assume that all religions are manmade until we can provide objective evidence that shows beyond reasonable doubt what is true and/or false with every religion.

Since you believe that all religions are not true we all should assume that our beliefs are false and assume that your belief is true and join with you to search for the truth?

 

[ArtieE]

Since you believe that all religions are not true we all should assume that our beliefs are false and assume that your belief is true and join with you to search for the truth?

Religious people should stop this childish bickering about whose religion is true and put aside all the "believing" for a while and join forces to find out what actually is true.

 

[Jumi]

Atheists believe that their belief is a fact and the ultimate truth. A christian believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. A Muslim believes that his/her belief is the ultimate truth. Everyone believes that their own belief is the ultimate truth.

Not really true on the atheists part about atheists believing in ultimate truth. Most atheists I know believe we learn new things and build on that. No static ultimate truth to discover that atheists hold.

But all these beliefs cannot be true at the same time.

All could be false, especially when humans believe they hold ultimate truth it's usually something they want to force others with.

We cannot expect someone who died to come back and tell us the truth

Even if someone came back from the dead (as in NDE), we can't believe their experience was true.

If you are not demanding for a scientific proof, then the best evidence I can show you is the Qur'an. Its not a scripture for Muslims. It's a scripture for all the human beings.

Sorry, but I've heard this same thing said about the religion I was born in(evangelical protestant) and others.

 

[viole]

There are roughly 4200 religions in the world. All these religions cannot be true at the same time. But how does this imply that all are false?

Because the 4199 which are false use the same epistemology and evidence for their claims as the 4200th. So, even if it is true that at most one could be true, we can conclude that their claims are all equally reliable. Therefore, there is no rational justification to pick one and not another one.

If we consider all mutually exclusive religions of today and in the past, we can also conclude that there is a natural predisposition for humans to make up their own version of God. At least, the probability of randomly chosen religion X to be man made, is suspiciously close to 1. And God does not appear to do anything to correct the situation.

Add to this the fact that all of those beliefs are not equally distributed on the population of the planet, we can also conclude that people's primary epistemology is simply to pick the one they grew into.

Because of this, there is ovewhelming rational warrant to reject them all.

Ciao

- viole

 

[FearGod]

Add to this the fact that all of those beliefs are not equally distributed on the population of the planet, we can also conclude that people's primary epistemology is simply to pick the one they grew into.

Because of this, there is ovewhelming rational warrant to reject them all.

Ciao

- viole

Wishful thinking.

(2:170)
When it is said to them: "Follow what Allah has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?

 

[FearGod]

Because the 4199 which are false use the same epistemology and evidence for their claims as the 4200th. So, even if it is true that at most one could be true, we can conclude that their claims are all equally reliable. Therefore, there is no rational justification to pick one and not another one.

If we consider all mutually exclusive religions of today and in the past, we can also conclude that there is a natural predisposition for humans to make up their own version of God. At least, the probability of randomly chosen religion X to be man made, is suspiciously close to 1. And God does not appear to do anything to correct the situation.

Ciao

- viole

How many religions says that the state of Israel will be born in Jerusalem?

 

[Jumi]

(2:170)
When it is said to them: "Follow what Allah has sent down." They say: "Nay! We shall follow what we found our fathers following." (Would they do that!) Even though their fathers did not understand anything nor were they guided?

But now it's become what your fathers were following.