Believers should not feel intimidated by so called experts on religion

[RestlessSoul]

Ok, then HOW would a person actually KNOW that it actually WAS a response from God. It's too easy to declare that God answers prayer, with the kind of statement you just came up with, if whatever we might perceive AS an answer, cannot be determined one way or the other?

People who have had life changing spiritual experiences, and known the nearness of their creator in their hour of need, tend to be in little doubt as to the miraculous nature of those experiences; though I have heard that some come to doubt this afterwards - to doubt being human, after all.

For myself, I know that I have been the recipient of a miracle, and my life changed for the better because of it.

 

[firedragon]

Hmmmmm, the way I see it, when you die, you are DEAD, and the DEAD are unaware of ANYTHING.
The rest is pure speculation and not something which can be addressed in any kind of intelligent sense. Fear-mongering, like most preachers and televangelists are quite adept at.....and that's all.

Is not your first sentence in this post also pure speculation?

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Is not your first sentence in this post also pure speculation?

Mebbie, but I dare you to prove me otherwise.....fair enough?

 

[firedragon]

Mebbie, but I dare you to prove me otherwise.....fair enough?

Very good. IT cannot be proven this way or that way. Do you understand?

So your claim cannot be justified.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

People who have had life changing spiritual experiences, and known the nearness of their creator in their hour of need, tend to be in little doubt as to the miraculous nature of those experiences; though I have heard that some come to doubt this afterwards - to doubt being human, after all.

For myself, I know that I have been the recipient of a miracle, and my life changed for the better because of it.

I TOO have been the recipient of unexplained and to date unexplainable experiences, but I hesitate in referring to them as being "spiritual" experiences, simply because I can offer no rational explanation for them.
In my estimation, THAT is how the "goddidit" list got started in the FIRST place......"cain't explain it, MUST have been GOD!"

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Very good. IT cannot be proven this way or that way. Do you understand?

So your claim cannot be justified.

That's simply a copout. Since there has NEVER been an authenticated example of someone coming BACK from having been "dead" and I MEAN DEAD and not "near death", I see such a "claim" as being perfectly justified.
Dead is DEAD, and there ain't no coming back from it, or any knowledge of any kind of "conscious awareness" WHEN dead, either.
I would rather let the facts speak for themselves than attempt to dismiss them out of nothing more than what is probably just emotion-driven wishful thinking.

 

[Vinayaka]

A religious person who hold a personal belief in any religion or spiritual teaching, has no reason to feel intimidated by a socalled expert on religion....there is not one answer fits all when it comes to spiritual practice.

An expert has an opinion, thats all.
Let them have their opinion, and the best part, just leave them alone
They try to tell you "you don't know your own personal belief" that is hilerious.

Why would anyone be intimidated if they have God on their side? He's God. Surely He is more powerful than a self-declared expert.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Your soul is lying to you. Don't let it.

My WHAT? My "soul". What is this soul business......more of your superstition-based beliefs?
I have a difficult time accepting what so many OTHERS accept, unquestioned even, either because it is what they heard spoken from some pulpit in a church, preached by some overpaid televangelist on TV, or read about it in some BOOK, most likely written by uneducated people who themselves had NO freaking idea where the SUN went at night.
ALL without a shred of viable/empirical evidence as support. I usually just shake my head in feigned indifference and slowly walk away.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Why would anyone be intimidated if they have God on their side? He's God. Surely He is more powerful than a self-declared expert.

And that matters and all depends on WHICH God you think, feel, believe, is on your side. Is it Yahwey, Baal, Manitu, Shiva, the One Eyed Viking God, Ra?......how can one tell, how can ANYone really tell, which one it is AND whether or not it has THEIR best interests in mind?
IIRC, there have been MORE human deaths attribute to the Christian God, than ALL others combined. That's certainly encouraging, doncha think?

 

[firedragon]

Dead is DEAD

You are making a hard claim. But you cant prove it.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

You are making a hard claim. But you cant prove it.

Don't really NEED to.....just a cursory reading of the Bible should be sufficient in that respect. Otherwise there IS data available for those who wish to Google it

.

 

[firedragon]

Don't really NEED to.....just a cursory reading of the Bible should be sufficient in that respect. Otherwise there IS data available for those who wish to Google it

.View attachment 59223

Thats irrelevant.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Thats irrelevant.

And THAT is a copout.
It doesn't take a genius to come to such a conclusion when one takes into account that God got pissed and drowned the ENTIRE LOT of humanity in one fell swoop......and we cannot forget how this God in all his omnipotence, chose to "off' the first born of each and EVERY resident of Egypt, just to "teach the Pharaoh a lesson", instead of simply "offing" the Pharaoh himself.
The "list" goes on and on and on, in the Bible. Whenever and wherever God is involved, someONE or some entire village or CITY, is wiped out....and people DIE.
But that's ok, if you wish to sweep all that under the proverbial carpet, who am I to stop you?

 

[firedragon]

And THAT is a copout.
It doesn't take a genius to come to such a conclusion when one takes into account that God got pissed and drowned the ENTIRE LOT of humanity in one fell swoop......and we cannot forget how this God in all his omnipotence, chose to "off' the first born of each and EVERY resident of Egypt, just to "teach the Pharaoh a lesson", instead of simply "offing" the Pharaoh himself.
The "list" goes on and on and on, in the Bible. Whenever and wherever God is involved, someONE or some entire village or CITY, is wiped out....and people DIE.
But that's ok, if you wish to sweep all that under the proverbial carpet, who am I to stop you?

Your hard claim was "there is nothing after the death of a person".

Speaking about the Bible or any other book for that matter, murder and gods impotence etc etc etc dont prove that.

 

[ACEofALLaces]

Your hard claim was "there is nothing after the death of a person".

Speaking about the Bible or any other book for that matter, murder and gods impotence etc etc etc dont prove that.

Why are you giving me such a bad time over this matter? Do you yourself have ANY kind of scientifically supported evidence that there IS something going on in a person AFTER they die?
I agree that the use of the bible was a bad choice....it's just that IS what a lot of people hinge their beliefs and positions on.

 

[wandering peacefully]

used to have 8-10 people on my ignore list, but I found it to be wrong to do it, better to face them on their own methods

So how does that work for you? And what does " face them on their own methods mean?

 

[firedragon]

Do you yourself have ANY kind of scientifically supported evidence that there IS something going on in a person AFTER they die?

I have no scientific evidence, and science does not address these topics. Science stops with the natural world.

That is why when making hard claims one has to know how he is gonna give evidence to it. If you are an empiricist, your claim should be substantiated with empirical evidence. God in the Bible killing people is irrelevant to that.

Anyway, thanks for engaging.

Cheers.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Do you think the long ending of Mark is Gods true word?

As to Mark. Unless it is confirmed in the Quran or Baha’i Writings, we cannot be sure because both the Quran and Baha’i scriptures were revealed in the lifetime of the Prophet and authenticated while the Books of the Gospel were recorded after Christ’s passing.

The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances. (Baha’u’llah)

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings. (Effendi)

The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh

We cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. (Effendi)

 

[firedragon]

As to Mark. Unless it is confirmed in the Quran or Baha’i Writings, we cannot be sure because both the Quran and Baha’i scriptures were revealed in the lifetime of the Prophet and authenticated while the Books of the Gospel were recorded after Christ’s passing.

The Four Gospels were written after Him [Christ]. John, Luke, Mark and Matthew - these four wrote after Christ what they remembered of His utterances. (Baha’u’llah)

We cannot be sure of the authenticity of any of the phrases in the Old or the New Testament. What we can be sure of is when such references or words are cited or quoted in either the Quran or the Bahá'í writings. (Effendi)

The Bible is not wholly authentic, and in this respect is not to be compared with the Qur'an, and should be wholly subordinated to the authentic writings of Bahá'u'lláh

We cannot be sure how much or how little of the four Gospels are accurate and include the words of Christ and His undiluted teachings, all we can be sure of, as Bahá'ís, is that what has been quoted by Bahá'u'lláh and the Master must be absolutely authentic. (Effendi)

Its pretty clear that the long ending was added later. Quran is not needed for that.

So if Effendi is not sure about the Bible, how come you said that all scriptures are gods word?

I really cant understand.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I TOO have been the recipient of unexplained and to date unexplainable experiences, but I hesitate in referring to them as being "spiritual" experiences, simply because I can offer no rational explanation for them.
In my estimation, THAT is how the "goddidit" list got started in the FIRST place......"cain't explain it, MUST have been GOD!"

Perhaps the real test comes after the experience. Having become aware of His presence, do we put God at the centre of our lives, or do we carry on exactly as before? In my case, this was made easy for me, since carrying on as before would have spelled disaster.