Yes .. it would seem so .. look at the 10 commands of Lord YHWH .. Deut 5 .. as opposed to the 10 commands of Lord Jealous in Exodus 34 .. and explain to me how many commands are in common ! answer .. not many .
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Bibi a sign that the Anti Christ is near
- Thread starter Sargonski
- Start date
Yes .. it would seem so .. look at the 10 commands of Lord YHWH .. Deut 5 .. as opposed to the 10 commands of Lord Jealous in Exodus 34 .. and explain to me how many commands are in common ! answer .. not many .
Whose name is Joseph ? .. what on earth are you talking about friend .. the name of the God of Jesus is not "Joseph" and yes Melchi-Zedek is before Adoni-Zedek who is before David who is before solomon who is before Jesus
Not sure of Ra was associated with EL -- El is God .. but EL is not the only God .. according to Abe and the Israelites .. There are many Gods in the Israelite Pantheon
Melchi-Zedek .. as with Jesus "Prince of Peace" Zedek -- twin God of justice and righteousness . patron God of Jerusalem (city of peace) who sits at the right hand of "The Father" (EL) dispensing righteousns and Justice .. which is what Jesus does .. a high priest forever in the order of Melchi-Zedek Hebrew 6.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Joseph was Jesus' father, Mary's Help Mate, innocent and just.
Esteban X
Active Member
Step father actually, little is said about Jesus relationship with Joseph. By the time of the first miracle, at the wedding feast at Cana, Joseph seems to be out of the picture entirely. Maybe he died and Mary started a catering business. Skill that would be useful in Jesus feeding the 5000
Holy Carp .. not that Father silly "The Father" "Our Father who art in heaven - Hallowed be thy name" the God of Jesus Father not the Roman soldier .. what was his name ? .. Joseph is never mentioned as the father of Jesus ? and still the author of matt traces a lineage back through him .. which is really dumb .. can scratch that part out as interpolation .... Joseph is never said to have shagged Mary . prior to HeyZeus coming forth.
Astrophile
Active Member
What about London? I think of Babylon as a very small version of London.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Bibi a sign that the Anti Christ is near
Sargonski said:
and lest we not forget "The Father" of these "Adulterous Jews" is the demiurge ("The Devil" ) John 8:44 .. aka the twin God whose names are Jealous and YHWH.
paarsurrey said:
Is Jealous also the name of the twin one is talking about, please, right??
"Exodus 34 "The Lord said to Moses"
So it is neither from Moses nor from G-d, it is, I understand, an expression from some Judaic racial clergy, please, right?
Regards
Sargonski said:
and lest we not forget "The Father" of these "Adulterous Jews" is the demiurge ("The Devil" ) John 8:44 .. aka the twin God whose names are Jealous and YHWH.
paarsurrey said:
Is Jealous also the name of the twin one is talking about, please, right??
It starts like thus:
"Exodus 34 "The Lord said to Moses"
So it is neither from Moses nor from G-d, it is, I understand, an expression from some Judaic racial clergy, please, right?
Regards
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I've wondered what happened to Joseph. I know they hadn't espoused (wed) when Jeus was conceived. Apparently, it was a shameful thing to conceive children out of wedlock. They kept the ordeal secret, and I suppose left town before he was born. She might have been accused of adultery if Joseph wasn't the father and we know they weren't married. She was a maiden. The angel of the Lord ... Hmm ... Well, I'll suggest Joseph was Jeus' father and they had to hide the pregnancy due to societal influence and stigma. He likely died. Jesus spoke a lot about his father being in heaven.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
The spirit gives life. What if Joseph and Mary did "shag" and Jeus was given life between those two. All this before they were married, though. When Jesus was placed in his tomb, he apparently received a second wind and walked out (he lived). An angel of the Lord moved the stone and sat on top of it with two dead soldiers laying in front. The book stated they died of fright. I dunno, but Joseph was Jesus' father. God would be everyone's father - life giving spirit that God is. Joseph was also innocent and just, which suggest he lived rightly in righteousness and with justice. I think you asked about this, specially. The scriptures specifically state this about Jesus' father, Joseph.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Balthazzar said:
Joseph was Jesus' father, Mary's Help Mate, innocent and just.
Regards
Joseph was Jesus' father, Mary's Help Mate, innocent and just.
Let our Paulines catch at a straw, isn't it usual with them, please, right?
Regards
This a standard translation Then the Lord said: “I am making a covenant with you. Before all your people I will do wonders never before done in any nation in all the world. The people you live among will see how awesome is the work that I, the Lord, will do for you. 11 Obey what I command you today. I will drive out before you the Amorites, Canaanites, Hittites, Perizzites, Hivites and Jebusites. 12 Be careful not to make a treaty with those who live in the land where you are going, or they will be a snare among you. 13 Break down their altars, smash their sacred stones and cut down their Asherah poles.[a] 14 Do not worship any other god, for the Lord, whose name is Jealous, is a jealous God"
The first question is the meaning of "Lord" which by convention the translators and redactors substituted the name YHWH with Lord in the text. .. .so "YHWH said to MOses" is your passage and "Then YHWH said" is exodus 34:10
But later on we read that this is not YHWH speaking "as such" , but Jealous .. a god whose name is Jealous seperate and apart from Lord YHWH or .. we are dealing with one of these twin Gods .. which are very common .. diesm of a sort .. and there are many such motifs in the religious beliefs of the day .. and in fact the whole Israelite history is one of going back and forth between two poles- this in many cases a contribution of the redactors this however supporting the pre-existing theme .. remember the redactors are trying to frame the Polytheistic believes of the Israelites and abrahamites and those before that .. all believers in many Gods .. to a nation through a monotheistic lens .. which of court doesn't fit but they try while maintaining as much of the original story as possible. Your mission .. should you choose to accept it is to figure out what the test was saying from the perspective of an 1800 BC Babylonian from Ur .. Patron Go1800d(s) Enlil o Marduk .. and a whole pantheon of other Gods but also.. Stories about those Gods .. stories of how they created man .. how you were created mate .. your oldest ancestor
And .. what is interesting .. is that everyone has the same story .. regardless of what Nation you are from ..or what God(s) you follow .. parts of your religious texts will be the same .. the stories in Genesis a prime example.
So when you read created "Like US" .. created in "OUR Image" .. this means nothing but gibberish to modern monotheist.
If you are talking to our Babylonian friend . or Assyrian . or Canaanite. or Moabite . or Edomite . or Philistine. or Phoenician . or Hittite or . or .. or in 700-1800BC pick which ever date you like .. they all can tell you exactly what that passage means .. and they will all say exactly the same thing. They all know the story of where humans came from .. this is shared history just as Australians today know the name of the first person to land on the moon.
and what is super strange here .. is that you .. and everyone you know and everyone they know .. should know this story right off top of head .. but no one does Sans Biblical History-archaeology fanboys such as myself.
So what is the most laughable response from a 21st century trinitarian .. Right ! "Thats the Trinity" they say
Right .. and you know what is doubly funny ..is that they are quasi right in a wonky way .. such that there are various Trinities of that time .. EL - Asherah - Anat .. Father Mother - child.. this is in now way however the kind of Trinity our modern Bozo is referrign to .. and the US in the actual story involves more than 3 Gods .. albeit maybe 3 Primary Gods Anu - EL - Enki ? Father - Son - Son Trinity ? but ANU is not directly involved in the creation of man like EL and Enki .. EL - Enki - and Asherah (queen of Heaven) Brother Brother -Mother/fertility Goddess would be the actual trinity if we were to question our Babylonian friend .. but there are also lower goddesses involved . .but you could say that there were at least 3 main High Gods that were involved EL - brother Enki - fertility Goddess.. There were 14 Goddesses who were implanted with this hybrid primative earthling - God seed. 7 male .. 7 female. who then served as workers and servents .. and multiply rapidly . Don't look at me funny .. this is not my story .. its theirs .. where they believed they came from. and later these "Adamu" .. hybrid offspring .. who have multiplied and some of the Adamu women are attractive to some of the lower Gods .. and they take them as wives .. the offspring of which we are told were the heros of old like in the Greek myths these humans with special powers .. the kernel of Truth in myth if you will.
So when you ask our Babylonian frend who the "like US" is .. will tell you that they are the creator Gods .. and we are in their image because they created us through artificial insemination of them and our other primitive earthling ancestors.
Their story .. not mine.
NOW - when you ask our Babylonian friend this YHWH - Jealous twin God is all about .. this is a story he is not familiar with .. but what will be his perspective on the Two Gods ? each with a different coventant - different set of commands.
How is this fellow going to make sense out of the story .. 1) either these are two different Gods .. the Israelites Reject Lord YHWH ... by worshiping YHWH's Father EL -- (Golden Calf incident) (and yes this is the EL of our little Creation Triad) the people break the covenant with this God - reject the commands. The people then take up another God named Jealous .. who makes a new covenant -- new set of commands.
Right ! OR -- 2) we see the other side of this two faced God .. both of which are quite nasty .. there is no "Good- Evil" dualism here .. nor is it a "Chaos Order" dualism .. it is more like Zedek dualism where two qualities or traits - justice and righteousness .. except the duality here is one of love vs hate .. the traits being the nasty sides of both .. the Israelites doomed by this God in any case .. as we learn from rest of the story.
So our Babylonian observer is going to pick one of the two .. and although I favor 2) .. I can not say for sure... Either way .. you have two Gods in play .. one with one set of commands "Words of God" .. the other with another set of commands "words of a diffrent God"
Now Jesus is the symbolic representation of "the word of God" .. the so called "Logos" emissary between man and God .. speaking Gods word directly through the Holy Sprite . Right !
the question however is .. the word of which God is he speaking ? .. and what then is that word. 1) which God ? -- Well .. it is not Lord YHWH nor LOrd Jealous .. Jesus openly violates those commands .. that covenant .. so it can't be them .. and in fact calls YHWH-Jealous .. all kinds of nasty things .. Devil - Father of lies - murderer from the beginning .. just lays into this God .. blaspheming this God all over the map .. Right !
2) So .. the good news .. is you do not need to follow the commands of the xenophobic flip flopping irrational illogical genocidal maniac a flip flopping irational God with the most petty and nasty of human traits.. to be a follower of Jesus ..
The bad news .. what are these commands we must follow to be put right with the God of Jesus ? hard to keep a covenant if we have not the faintest idea what that covenant is .. Right !
Some early Christians had a similar idea .. branding YHWH-Jealous as the demiurge.. Marcionites .. which gives us a small glimps into some possible beliefs that Jesus espoused .. Marcion was a big fanboy of Paul .. which diverges from there with my beliefs .. believing that Paul did not have a good grasp on the covenant nor the commands .. sans throwing away the old Law .. good on him for recognition of the demiurge .. just that he does not supplant the old with the new .. as Jesus does .. and this is a divide with which we cannot abide .. a fancy way of saying Paul and Jesus contradict each other. In such cases I must default to Jesus .. rather than Pauls perspective.
Sure .. why not .. Joseph and Mary could have well been the parent of Jesus. but this has nothing to do with who the parents of Jesus were ..you are way way down rabbit hole .. on the basis of misunderstanding how the term "Father" was being used .. as in the Paternal Father of Jesus was not being referred to .. but the Holy Father of Jesus in heaven.
Now .. to humor your rabbit .. Jesus did not turn into a zombie and walk out of the tomb friend .. that is not how the original story ends .. the uneditid .. unrevised version 1. In that story Jesus dead body is indeed put into a cave-tomb -- but the body is gone the next day .. and that is where the story ends .. the reader left to wonder about the identity of the Grave Robbers.
Now go back .. figure out what was actually being discussed .. now that you know the meaning of the word "Father" in context and respond appropriately
funny you mention Paul .. as had written a few words about him to you prior to seeing this.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
The text reads how I suggested. Maybe you're reading a different book, or too much into it. I'm speaking practically and according to what's written. Joseph and Mary and Jesus the family in question. Who was Jesus' father? Joseph. His mother was Mary. Joseph likely died early on. I'm not privy to what happened to Joseph, but Jesus stated his father was in heaven, so I'll assume he died. He was spoken of favorably. Joseph was said to have been innocent and just, which goes along the lines of ruling in righteousness and justice. I answered specifically according to what I'm able to know as written in the text. God is our origin, creator of the heavens and the earth and everything in it. God as all things, the cosmos, the universe, existence, and all that is the substance of the origin of all we know to exist. Genesis suggested that Adam was made, created by God from the dust of the ground. If the first begotten wasn't Adam, then it was Able who was killed by his brother, who was the offspring of Adam and Eve. All I have to base my understanding on is life, what I understand about life, and text in a few books.Sure .. why not .. Joseph and Mary could have well been the parent of Jesus. but this has nothing to do with who the parents of Jesus were ..you are way way down rabbit hole .. on the basis of misunderstanding how the term "Father" was being used .. as in the Paternal Father of Jesus was not being referred to .. but the Holy Father of Jesus in heaven.
Now .. to humor your rabbit .. Jesus did not turn into a zombie and walk out of the tomb friend .. that is not how the original story ends .. the uneditid .. unrevised version 1. In that story Jesus dead body is indeed put into a cave-tomb -- but the body is gone the next day .. and that is where the story ends .. the reader left to wonder about the identity of the Grave Robbers.
Now go back .. figure out what was actually being discussed .. now that you know the meaning of the word "Father" in context and respond appropriately
Lazarus was in a tomb and counted among the dead, too. I think he had leprosy or something. He came out when called to come out also.
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the text of Mark (the original story) does not read .how you suggest .. so perhaps it is you who is reading a different book. There are no stories of Jesus wandering around the earth in the flesh after death Brother Balth .. .. and there is also no virgin birth nor lineage back to David...
Perhaps Joseph was the father .. or the Soldier Pantera as suggested by ancient Jewish sources we don't know .. the story does not tell us .. nor does it tell us anything about Adam created out of Dust .. which is better translated clay by the way .. used to inseminate the 14 godesses to produce 7 male and 7 female "Adamu" the first humans .. but why you are bringing this up now .. I do not know.
This "God of All things" is not in the book of Genesis friend .. nor the Jewish Bible .. least not prior to the destruction of the Temple .. but that another matter.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
We're reading different books, but the account is written in Mark, also. I have Genesis through the Revelation to go by and a few other texts I have access to, but don't utilize. You apparently have something different to reference. I don't know anything about Pantera. I know about Joseph. Virgin equates to maiden or unmarried, which I alluded to already. I wouldn't be so sure about Jesus' lineage not leading back to David, though.
Sorry Brother Balth .. your claim that "zombie Jesus" appears in the "Original Story" . . is quite false. Do you understand "Original Story" friend. .. here I will give you the story copied straight out from the NIV translation. Bible Gateway passage: Mark 16 - New International Version
"16 When the Sabbath was over, Mary Magdalene, Mary the mother of James, and Salome bought spices so that they might go to anoint Jesus’ body. 2 Very early on the first day of the week, just after sunrise, they were on their way to the tomb 3 and they asked each other, “Who will roll the stone away from the entrance of the tomb?”
4 But when they looked up, they saw that the stone, which was very large, had been rolled away. 5 As they entered the tomb, they saw a young man dressed in a white robe sitting on the right side, and they were alarmed.
6 “Don’t be alarmed,” he said. “You are looking for Jesus the Nazarene, who was crucified. He has risen! He is not here. See the place where they laid him. 7 But go, tell his disciples and Peter, ‘He is going ahead of you into Galilee. There you will see him, just as he told you.’”
8 Trembling and bewildered, the women went out and fled from the tomb. They said nothing to anyone, because they were afraid.[a]
[The earliest manuscripts and some other ancient witnesses do not have verses 9–20.]"
What part of .. the "Original" story ends with an empty tomb .. is not crystal clear ? The Bible itself telling you the Zombie Jesus stories were added 300+ years after the composition of the "Original Story" .. as opposed to the Updated and revised version 10 .. 300 years later.
Pantera is not in the Bible .. I told you .. "Ancient Jewish Sources" -- what the Jews had to say about Jesus way back in the day.
and there is no lineage back to David in the Gospel of Mark ? Please show me this Bible where Mark has a lineage back to David .. virgin birth, and stories of Jesus wandering around after death in the flesh. .. Such does not exist in any standard Bible
clara17
Memorable member
Actually, no. (Matt 27:62 - 28:15)Sure .. why not .. Joseph and Mary could have well been the parent of Jesus. but this has nothing to do with who the parents of Jesus were ..you are way way down rabbit hole .. on the basis of misunderstanding how the term "Father" was being used .. as in the Paternal Father of Jesus was not being referred to .. but the Holy Father of Jesus in heaven.
Now .. to humor your rabbit .. Jesus did not turn into a zombie and walk out of the tomb friend .. that is not how the original story ends .. the uneditid .. unrevised version 1. In that story Jesus dead body is indeed put into a cave-tomb -- but the body is gone the next day .. and that is where the story ends .. the reader left to wonder about the identity of the Grave Robbers.
Now go back .. figure out what was actually being discussed .. now that you know the meaning of the word "Father" in context and respond appropriately
Those who had him killed were worried that he had said he would rise from the dead and ordered a security detail to guard the tomb. Someone in a white outfit, who shined like a lightning bolt, appeared out of the sky and removed the stone, opening the tomb. The guards fell down like dead men. They reported what they saw and were paid a large bribe to keep it a secret, so that Rome would not find out. One has to wonder what the world would look like today, if Rome had found out what happened.
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
Who is zombie Jesus? I was under the impression that he was crucified and counted among the dead, like Lazarus who was a leper and outcast from society, being counted among the dead. Jesus left his tomb and walked among his disciples after being counted among the dead. Let the dead bury the dead statement comes to mind. I've never heard of zombie Jesus. I've read about the Jesus who was beaten beyond recognition and nailed to a cross, then placed in a cave (tomb) and left for dead, after being counted among the dead, but I've never heard about "zombie" Jesus. I've read about the Jesus who rose up from that state to walk a little longer with his friends, but I've never read about a zombie Jesus.
Zombie Jesus vs. Friend Jesus who took one for his team to save them from the roman soldiers by going willingly instead of resisting with violence beyond Peters striking the ear of one of them with the sword.
How old are you? I remember the kids saying similar things in high school about a stand-up guy. His name was Jesus. Zombie Jesus wasn't part of his history.
paarsurrey
Veteran Member
Payment of a large bribe, one figures, shows that Pauline Jesus-god is fake.
Regards