Bible Fails

[3rdAngel]

It is not judgement to demonstrate how you could not follow your own Bible. That was all that was done. No one is saying "You are going to Hell for this!"

Sure it is that is why JESUS says you shall know them (his followers) by their fruit (what they do). He is not saying you shall not know them by their fruits there fore you will not know anything. I will leave you with the last say as it seems you need to more than I do.

 

[PruePhillip]

Doesn’t matter. they aren’t autographed and that’s enough to cast don’t on any “certainty” based on heresay.

Yes, for sure. No certainly. There's no "certainly" in anything in the bible.
It's written like that. It's all about "believing" not in "proof."
Proof must come from your own personal experience.
So I am fine with Jesus' favorite disciple writing the Gospel According
To John. And I am happy with Matthew being the author of the Gospel
by that name. And there's no reason to disbelieve that someone called
Luke wrote the Gospel of Luke and Acts.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure there was. You cherry picked a scripture taken out of context in Corinthians 7 and tried to put an interpretation on it that it was not saying in relation to sex. I simply added all the context back in showing it was talking about sex in relation to fornication (unlawful sex outside of marriage). Adding the context back showed that your application to all sex was faulty as Paul went on to show that sex within marriage was ok. Context matters my friend and you did not provide any. This was your mistake. Seems the sad thing is you are the one who got spanked but you do not even know it

No, as usual you could not understand your book of myths. And no, you did not add context back in. You did not understand the verse so you could not do that. Once again, you tried to created a false narrative because you could not handle the truth. Don't worry, many Christians make that sort of mistake when their book of myths is shown to be a bit on the nutty side.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not really I thought it was funny that I posted the Oxford Dictionaries definition of Atheism which uses the same definition of many dictionaries and you trying to argue it was not correct. Then again you have your faith and I have mine I guess

That is right. The one that you did not understand the refuted your claim. Your repeated errors of this sort is what tells us that you do seem to have a problem with reading comprehension. If you want to go over it in detail I am more than happy to do so.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sure it is that is why JESUS says you shall know them (his followers) by their fruit (what they do). He is not saying you shall not know them by their fruits there fore you will not know anything.

That does not bode well for you either.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

No I do not live in the old covenant under the civil laws of Israel. According to the scripture though the wages of sin is still death in the new covenant to all those who reject the gift of God's dear son. Judegment takes place after the 2nd coming. Are you a christian that does not know these things?

I am Christian. Been one for a long time. You are no one I know to judge me otherwise. You have your own house to keep up and no time to worry about others.

 

[3rdAngel]

I am Christian. Been one for a long time. You are no one I know to judge me otherwise. You have your own house to keep up and no time to worry about others.

I was not judging you. I was asking you a question you did not answer. You were the one asking about adultery not me. I only answered the question in the post you sent me. Perhaps you should think your questions through before asking them.

 

[EtuMalku]

More (fictional) people have been killed by fiction writers than (real) people have been killed by serial killers. If you see the bible as a book of fiction, it is still bad writing but the morality issue goes away.

That would be true, however, I see the Christian bible as propaganda.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I was not judging you. I was asking you a question you did not answer. You were the one asking about adultery not me. I only answered the question in the post you sent me. Perhaps you should think your questions through before asking them.

I asked about stoning. Adulterers were just a particular target. People were stoned for many reasons. You responded that you do not follow some parts of the Bible. I am satisfied with that answer.

 

[3rdAngel]

I asked about stoning. Adulterers were just a particular target. People were stoned for many reasons. You responded that you do not follow some parts of the Bible. I am satisfied with that answer.

Well thanks Dan I am glad you were happy with the answer. Why did you ask such a question? For the records though I follow all the bible. It is just that some parts of the old covenant (testament) scriptures are fulfilled in the new covenant. Some things in the old covenant are done away in the new. Though to be honest I have heard this question being sarcastically asked in the past by others. If that was your intention or not I do not know. That is why I am asking FYI.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Well thanks Dan. Why did you ask such a question? Some things in the old covenant are done away in the new. Though to be honest I have heard this question being sarcastically asked in the past by others. If that was your intention or not I do not know. That is why I am asking FYI.

You are welcome. I asked it in response to a statement you made.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

That does not bode well for you either.

I noticed an element of this thread that stands out to me and says a great deal. A number of contradictions of the Bible were pointed out by several posters. Several other posters denied contradictions exist, citing context and poor interpretation as the main explanation. The only contradiction that I actually saw addressed, and then only partially, was the one regarding animals going on the ark. If all these other contradictions do not exist and are so easily dealt with, I am surprised that the examples were not dealt with.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Well thanks Dan. Why did you ask such a question? Some things in the old covenant are done away in the new. Though to be honest I have heard this question being sarcastically asked in the past by others. If that was your intention or not I do not know. That is why I am asking FYI.

Except that goes against the teachings of Jesus.

 

[3rdAngel]

You are welcome. I asked it in response to a statement you made.

What statement did I make that would make you ask about stoning and adultery?

 

[3rdAngel]

I noticed an element of this thread that stands out to me and says a great deal. A number of contradictions of the Bible were pointed out by several posters. Several other posters denied contradictions exist, citing context and poor interpretation as the main explanation. The only contradiction that I actually saw addressed, and then only partially, was the one regarding animals going on the ark. If all these other contradictions do not exist and are so easily dealt with, I am surprised that the examples were not dealt with.

Most of these so called contradictions are sources and posted from Atheist websites. My personal experience here in this forum for many of the harder scriptures, people have already brought up in other threads have been clearly answered by providing context to so called contradictions.

I have already personally dealt with quite a few of these "so called" contradictions that have been brought up in other threads posting context to determine the correct meanings that some have cherry picked scripture out of context to give meaning that the scriptures are not saying. The response is that these same people that make these topics are simply not interested in an honest discussion and will not except the context that shows them to be in error.

So I write this from my own personal experience here. What I have noticed is that when context is provided it makes no difference to these same people who have been shown to be in error despite this being clearly shown to them by adding the scripture context back to the cherry picked scripture they say contradict each other.

Now why would one spend anytime with people whos only interest is to try and make others think that the bible is in error when it is not and it is their interpretation of the scriptures that is in error when no matter what I show them through the scriptures is not going to change their position no matter how clear the evidence is against them?

Now the above is bad enough in a thread that has a few contradictions but when someone who is a supposed "christian" makes a thraed for collective contradictions why would anyone seek to participate in it this way? I posted earlier in this thread if anyone want to know the truth to any of these so called contradictions and wants an honest discussion to PM me.

No one has been interested enough to take me up on the offer or challenge.

 

[Galateasdream]

One of the most interesting biblical errors I've come across is Matthew's misattribution of a prophecy. The author claims that a particular statement was made by Jerimiah, but it wasn't. At best it seems a paraphrase of Zechariah. Even early church fathers, like Augustine, felt that the best explanation was that it was a mistake.

I've read a variety of theories that attempt to explain the error, but none I've read so far seem as plausible as the straighforward idea that the author of Matt made a mistake.


Matt 27:

9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,
saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him
that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me

 

[1213]

In Galatians 6:2, Paul commands us to carry each other's burdens, then in 6:5 says each person should carry his own load ...

There is no contradiction in that. If you bear another’s burden, it is also your burden and you will bear your own burden. If it would say, “you don’t have to bear a burden”, and then, “bear your burden”, it would be possible contradiction.

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each man test his own work, and then he will take pride in himself and not in his neighbor. For each man will bear his own burden.
Gal 6:2-5

How many pairs of clean animals did God tell Noah to take into the Ark?

Two (Genesis 6:19, 20)

Seven (Genesis 7:2). But despite this last instruction only two pairs went into the ark (Genesis 7:8-9)

Genesis 6:19, 20 is not saying that only 2 of clean animals. Genesis 7:8-9 tells that animals went in pair so ark, it doesn’t claim that there were only one pair of clean animals.

Did Joshua and the Israelites capture Jerusalem?

Yes (Joshua 10:23, 40)

No (Joshua 15:63)

Joshua 15:63 says:
As for the Jebusites, the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah couldn't drive them out: but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem to this day.

That doesn’t mean Jerusalem was not captured.

I think it is weird, if this kind of matters are really “most damning biblical mistakes”. I understand if person doesn’t want to love as commanded in the Bible, but making this kind of excuses is not in anyway reasonable.

 

[3rdAngel]

One of the most interesting biblical errors I've come across is Matthew's misattribution of a prophecy. The author claims that a particular statement was made by Jerimiah, but it wasn't. At best it seems a paraphrase of Zechariah. Even early church fathers, like Augustine, felt that the best explanation was that it was a mistake.

I've read a variety of theories that attempt to explain the error, but none I've read so far seem as plausible as the straighforward idea that the author of Matt made a mistake.

Matt 27:

9 Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremy the prophet,
saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him
that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value;
10 And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me

If you look at this on the surface it could look like an error but if you look at the detail and the context it is not an error. Here is why (I will highlight some key words below) and look at Matthew, Jeremiah and Zechariah...

MATTHEW 27:9-10 [9] Then was fulfilled that which was SPOKEN BY JEREMIAH THE PROPHET, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value; [10] And gave them for the potter's field, as the Lord appointed me

from Jeremiah...Jeremiah 32:6-10 describes Jeremiah being commanded by the LORD to buy a field with seventeen shekels of silver. It says:

Jeremiah 32:6-10 "And Jeremiah said, The word of the LORD came unto me, saying, Behold, Hanameel the son of Shallum thine uncle shall come unto thee, saying, Buy thee my field that is in Anathoth: for the right of redemption is thine to buy it. So Hanameel mine uncle's son came to me in the court of the prison according to the word of the LORD, and said unto me, Buy my field, I pray thee, that is in Anathoth, which is in the country of Benjamin: for the right of inheritance is thine, and the redemption is thine; buy it for thyself. Then I knew that this was the word of the LORD. And I bought the field of Hanameel my uncle's son, that was in Anathoth, and weighed him the money, even seventeen shekels of silver. And I subscribed the evidence, and sealed it, and took witnesses, and weighed him the money in the balances."

Note Matthew 27:9-10 does not say "written" word it says "spoken" word. The text does not say how many pieces of silver in Jeremiah's day amounted to this seventeen shekels of silver. The amount may have equaled thirty pieces of silver in the days of Jesus. In any case, since only Jeremiah refers to a God-appointed purchase of a field, the reference to Jeremiah at Matthew 27:9-10 is certainly intentional and not an error as you claim.

The text of Matthew 27:9-10 says "that which was "spoken", not "that which was written", so there is no need to look for the exact quotation in the book of Jeremiah.

The view of some scholors is that Jeremiah spoke the prophecy but did not write it. Zechariah then wrote Jeremiah's oral prophecy while omitting the reference to a field because that detail had already been described in Jeremiah 32:6-10.The words from Zechariah 11:12-13 are not the exact words recorded at Matthew 27:9-10. Zechariah does not mention the "children of Israel" and the "field". In fact, only Jeremiah mentions the "field" which is why it is not mentioned in Zechariah. Jeremiah 32:6-10 describes Jeremiah being commanded by the LORD to buy a field with seventeen shekels of silver that may be equal to the 30 pieces in the days of JESUS.

Another veiw is that the prophecy is from Jeremiah being one of the major prophet therefore this is the reason why Matthew 27:9-10 does not mention Zechariah despite it being a closer reading.

Some points from the Jeremiah and Zechariah texts of note...

A shekel of silver in Jeremiah's prophecy time is a weight measurment of silver and is not equal to a piece of silver in Roman times. The weighing of the silver is explained as shown in both Jeremiah and recorded by Zechariah here...

Zechariah 11:12-13, [12], And I said to them, If you think good, give me my price; and if not, forbear. So they weighed for my price thirty pieces of silver. [13], And the LORD said to me, Cast it to the potter: a goodly price that I was priced at of them. And I took the thirty pieces of silver, and cast them to the potter in the house of the LORD.

Matthew 27:9-10 "Then was fulfilled that which was spoken by Jeremiah the prophet, saying, And they took the thirty pieces of silver, the price of him that was valued, whom they of the children of Israel did value."

Note Matthew 27:9-10 does not say "written" word it says "spoken" word. The text does not say how many pieces of silver in Jeremiah's day amounted to this seventeen shekels of silver. A shekel is a weight measurment of silver that equaled thirty pieces of silver (recorded in Zechariah 11:12-13 as 30 pieces of silver). In any case, since only Jeremiah refers to a God-appointed purchase of a field, the reference to Jeremiah at Matthew 27:9-10 is certainly intentional and not an error as you claim.

Jeremiah spoke the prophecy but did not write it. Zechariah then wrote Jeremiah's oral prophecy while omitting the reference to a field because that detail had already been described in Jeremiah 32:6-10.The words from Zechariah 11:12-13 are not the exact words recorded at Matthew 27:9-10. Zechariah does not mention the "children of Israel" and the "field". In fact, only Jeremiah mentions the "field" which is why it is not mentioned in Zechariah. Jeremiah 32:6-10 describes Jeremiah being commanded by the LORD to buy a field with seventeen shekels of silver that may be equal to the 30 pieces in the days of JESUS.

Hope this helps

 

[Galateasdream]

@3rdAngel
Thank you.

Yes, I've come across that proposed solution before, that basically Matthew was referring to an oral prophecy not a written scriptural one. But it's doesn't seem as plausible to me as the more straightforward mistake theory.

For example, I'm not sure someone would accept such a convoluted solution to a similar issue in another book if they weren't already committed to that text's infallibility.

Something that may help strengthen the case, though, is if we have other examples of such a spoken/written distinction used elsewhere in Mathew or other Gospels (or rest of NT). Something that might weaken it is if Matthew uses the same word for spoken here when referring to a written prophecy (or if other NT do so).

Any biblical linguists want to add their findings here on that?

Edit:
I'm not sure, but doesn't Matthew use the same wording 'spoken' in ch2 when introducing a written quotation from Jeremiah? If so, that would seriously weaken the proposed spoken/written distinction, I think. But I have no koine Greek, so am not sure of this at all. Anyone?

Another issue for this proposed solution is that it has no scholarly consensus, even amongst inerrentists. If it was a 'good' solution then at least a majority of scholars would accept it, but as far as I can tell there is no consensus and many possible proposed solutions offered - and the evangelical scholars all argue amongst themselves as to which is more accurate. This rings alarm bells for me.

 

[sooda]

There is no contradiction in that. If you bear another’s burden, it is also your burden and you will bear your own burden. If it would say, “you don’t have to bear a burden”, and then, “bear your burden”, it would be possible contradiction.

Bear one another's burdens, and so fulfill the law of Christ. For if a man thinks himself to be something when he is nothing, he deceives himself. But let each man test his own work, and then he will take pride in himself and not in his neighbor. For each man will bear his own burden.
Gal 6:2-5



Genesis 6:19, 20 is not saying that only 2 of clean animals. Genesis 7:8-9 tells that animals went in pair so ark, it doesn’t claim that there were only one pair of clean animals.



Joshua 15:63 says:
As for the Jebusites, the inhabitants of Jerusalem, the children of Judah couldn't drive them out: but the Jebusites dwell with the children of Judah at Jerusalem to this day.

That doesn’t mean Jerusalem was not captured.

I think it is weird, if this kind of matters are really “most damning biblical mistakes”. I understand if person doesn’t want to love as commanded in the Bible, but making this kind of excuses is not in anyway reasonable.

Your conclusion is insulting and what one would expect from your sort of Christian.

King David bought the Temple Mount and Jerusalem from the Jebusites 3000 years ago. He bought the place from Arauna the Jebusite.

Israel and The Jews: King David Bought Temple Mount 3000 ...
israel-jewish-land.blogspot.com/2011/06/king-david-bought-temple-mount.html