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Bibles answer to the problem of suffering
- Thread starter Pegg
- Start date
GawdAweful
Pseudo-Philosopher
The animals abused each other. Otherwise, why do porcupines have predator-resistant quills, or the blowfish protective spikes, or the skunk and bombardier beetle stinging chemicals? Is it just a coincidence that certain snakes capable of producing poisonous venom also have the fangs to deliver such poison and the physical ability to widen their jaws and the agility to strike with lightning speed and be able to stretch their body to accommodate entire large animals and the instinct to do so? Why do vampire bats have anticoagulant in their saliva if they were not meant to eat blood from organisms? Even the Venus flytrap is designed to feed on living creatures.
Why do predators have all the features for sneaking, ambushing, and devouring their prey? In turn, why do prey have the features necessary for outrunning, or outfoxing their predators? Is it to escape the clutches of violent vegetation.
Animals certainly seem designed to inflict pain and death on each other, even before Adam was created.
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the bible is not a political hand book.
F0uad
Well-Known Member
Well economics are not strictly political at all, economics shouldn't be touched by politicians at all.
So you agree that the bible doesn't have all the solutions?
Pegg
Jehovah our God is One
the bible does have the solution to the problem of economics and all other man-made problems....
The answer is Gods Kingdom. The reason only Gods rulership can solve our problems is due to the fact that mankind do not have the ability to be self governed...they 'need' God to govern them as the prophet Jeremiah states at Jeremiah 10:23 I well know, O Jehovah, that to earthling man his way does not belong. It does not belong to man who is walking even to direct his step
That is not the issue at all, with men and God.
Men are Gods clothed in flesh. Pain and suffering comes with being clothed in flesh.
Flesh hurts; i.e., Stomache aches, headaches, bumps, bruises, all those little etc'.s
Your use of "well being" implies to me that "pain" is inconsistant with being "well."
But much of the time, pain serves to warn us of impending damage if a change is not forthcoming. Like, "Move your hand or the hammer will strike it again" kind of thing.
Then there is social pain, like cheating on one's mate, thinking it is somehow advantageous over a monogomous arrangement.
At least now, clothed in flesh, we have a hope of something better. And much pain can be alleviated if we just exercise hope.
Doesn't the political take our taxes to run the economy, etc.?
Here are some NT references that you might want to consider:
I think Jesus 'Sermon on the Mount' [Matthew chapters 5 to 7] is an appeal to principles that when those biblical principles govern our lives they become living principles.
The world is basically void of those righteous golden-rule principles of behavior.
God promises to take care of us if we seek his kingdom first.
[ Matthew 6 v 33; Psalm 37 v 25 ]
Care for us spiritually and materially [ Hebrews 13 vs 5,6 ].
Of course, that is Not talking about leaving the providing of material needs to chance, or that one should refuse to work [ 2nd Thess. 3 v 10 ].
What God's promised means for us is that if we seek his kingdom first as Jesus did, in one's life and are willing to work for a living, then we can count on God to help us to obtain life's necessary things.[ 1st Thess. 4 vs 11,12; 1st Timothy 5 v 8 ].
God can provide us economic help possibly through a fellow believer or an offer of work.
Soon, when the great tribulation comes upon Satan's world of badness [ 2nd Timothy 3 vs 1-5,13] God's people will be able to look toward him with complete confidence [ Luke 21 v 28 ] knowing that deliverance is getting near [ Rev. 7 v 14] .
glendagreen
New Member
I don't understand. After being an active Christian for 45 years I have now been totally convinced that we have all been told things (spiritual interpretations from the Bible) that are totally untrue. For instance, God answers prayers. Why don't we just come right out and say that God answers prayers IF HE WANTS TO. My next question is, if he loves me, then why doesn't he answer them? If he is my father, why doesn't he care for me the way I care for my children? He has the power to protect me as his child,,,,then why doesn't he? I'd like to hear REAL answers and REAL interpretations of the scriptures, not the politically and socially motivated renditions.
glendagreen
New Member
That makes absolutely NO sense.
glendagreen
New Member
I am totally amazed at how much RHETORIC is actually repeated over and over again. Please, I am drowning here trying to get some true answers. Everything that I have spent 45 years believing in is getting pretty "iffy" these days. I need some TRUE, NO B.S. palatable, tangible, truths. Please, I beg you. I am dead serious. I am totally LOSING my faith and I am scared to death of doing that.
Hello URAVIP2ME
Can you clarify this, is there a continuation of the soul or do you mean the body or flesh is what continues with sin?
I am under the impression that both soul and flesh are born afresh.
Hello Onkara -
First, Ezekiel [ 18 vs 4,20 ] states: the soul that sins dies.
When Adam was created he was inanimate [non-living] before God breathed the' breath of life' into Adam. Then, Adam became a living soul.- Genesis 2 v 7.
No where does Scripture teach Adam had a separate soul, but that Adam was a soul.
Adam did not 'come to have' a soul, or 'come to possess' a soul.
Adam as a living soul or living person could live forever on earth if obedient to God.
Disobedience [sin] would cause Adam to become a dead soul or lifeless soul.
Adam as a dead or lifeless soul would return to the dust where Adam started.
Sin will come to an end during Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth.
End because Rev. [21 vs 4,5 ] says: 'death will be no more'.
In order for 'enemy death' to be no more [ 1st Cor. 15 v 26 ] sin would have to be no more. Jesus will undo all the harm that Satan and Adam brought upon us.
'Flesh and blood' [physical] can not inherit the kingdom.
So, those resurrected to heaven as Jesus was will be given a spirit body.
Those resurrected back to life during Jesus millennial reign over earth will have a healthy physical body. No one will say, "I am sick"- Isaiah 33 v 24
NOW is the time for spiritual healing or protection.
for now we are promised life's necessities.- Matthew 6 vs 31,32
During Jesus' coming 1000-year reign over earth God will satisfy our desires.
- Psalm 145 vs 15, 16
Jesus instructed that his followers pray for God's spirit [ Luke 11 v 13 ]
God answers prayers through Scripture and even through the help from believers.
Don't be dismayed about being told things untrue because that is what the religious leaders of Jesus' day were doing. -Mark 7 vs 1-7,13; Matthew 15 v 9.
Jesus believed the Scriptures are religious truth [ John 17 v 17 ]
Jesus teachings sets us free from false clergy teachings.- Acts 20 vs 29,30
Remember Jesus illustration of the 'wheat' and the 'weeds/tares' ?
The genuine 'wheat' Christians would grown together over the centuries with the fake 'weed/tares' Christians until the 'harvest time'. Harvest time or 'time of separation' of Matthew 25 vs 31,32. We are nearing the threshold of Jesus 1000-year reign over earth when Jesus will take the action to get rid of those playing false to him.-Isaiah 11 vs 3,4
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
It's interesting that the ancient Celts believed that the body resided within the soul -- not the soul within the body. This would certainly lend credence to your assertion here that we don't possess souls -- we are souls.
Shermana
Heretic
Thanks for the reply, URAVIP2ME.
That's interesting. Some Hindus hold the same thing, that everything rests in the soul or Divine Consciousness. I thought the Celts were Catholic or Presbyterian in general?
Thanks, that is a good quote and I would agree, other wise we couldn't become free from the "sins of the flesh", I assume?
Hi Sojourner
That's interesting. Some Hindus hold the same thing, that everything rests in the soul or Divine Consciousness. I thought the Celts were Catholic or Presbyterian in general?
Hi Sharmana
Thanks, that is a good quote and I would agree, other wise we couldn't become free from the "sins of the flesh", I assume?
Sharmana and Onkara -
Is Matthew 10 v 28 really teaching a separate soul and body because BOTH can be destroyed in Gehenna [English hellfire]
So, psykhe' [ne'phesh] does Not refer to that which is immortal or indestructible.
Things were destroyed in Gehenna. The 'incinerating fires of Gehenna' destroyed because fire was the most thorough means of destruction, not a forever burning. So, Jesus' use of the 'fires of Gehenna' illustrated complete destruction for the wicked.- Matthew 13 vs 40-42, 49,50; Psalm 92 v 7
Satan and all wicked ones, along with emptied-out hell and death end up in the lake of fire or everlastingly destroyed because the lake of fire according to Revelation 20 v 14 is the symbolic 'second death' or eternal destruction.- Rev. 21 v 8
Isn't enemy 'death' destroyed in 'second death' ?
-1st Cor. 15 v 26
With 'enemy death' being destroyed in the lake of fire which is 'second death', we would be free from the 'sins of the flesh' [Not just the body casing, but our whole living self or life as a living soul ] because mankind will come to have a 'sinless nature' starting at the Messianic 1000-year reign over earth.
Is Matthew 10 v 28 really teaching a separate soul and body because BOTH can be destroyed in Gehenna [English hellfire]
So, psykhe' [ne'phesh] does Not refer to that which is immortal or indestructible.
Things were destroyed in Gehenna. The 'incinerating fires of Gehenna' destroyed because fire was the most thorough means of destruction, not a forever burning. So, Jesus' use of the 'fires of Gehenna' illustrated complete destruction for the wicked.- Matthew 13 vs 40-42, 49,50; Psalm 92 v 7
Satan and all wicked ones, along with emptied-out hell and death end up in the lake of fire or everlastingly destroyed because the lake of fire according to Revelation 20 v 14 is the symbolic 'second death' or eternal destruction.- Rev. 21 v 8
Isn't enemy 'death' destroyed in 'second death' ?
-1st Cor. 15 v 26
With 'enemy death' being destroyed in the lake of fire which is 'second death', we would be free from the 'sins of the flesh' [Not just the body casing, but our whole living self or life as a living soul ] because mankind will come to have a 'sinless nature' starting at the Messianic 1000-year reign over earth.
sojourner
Annoyingly Progressive Since 2006
Very anciently, the Celts were their own, more or less pagan religion. Less anciently, they were a group of xtians that grew alongside Roman Catholicism, but separate from it, under the teachings of Columba. It was not until the Council of Whitby that most of Celtic Xy finally submitted to Rome in the 7th century. Modernly, Celts seem to be more aligned with Anglicanism.
That is what the Celts believed also, except that the body is housed within the soul, rather than the other way round, which is what modern convention says. I suppose that to say, "we are souls" is to say that it's the soul, and not the physical body, that takes "primacy" in our self-identification.
sincerly
Well-Known Member
Hi Glenda, Welcome to the forums! I'm not sure that any answer I or others give will be satisfactory, But here goes.
In 1Cor.10:6, 11, Paul wrote a very profound and valid fundamental fact. There are many examples given in the Scriptures which are there for our "admonition", "examples", and "learning"(Rom.15:4).
Starting with Adam and Eve, It wasn't GOD that "messed up", but those two created beings. God had warned them concerning the consequences of Disobeying, but HE Didn't do anything to interfer with their choices.
God had instructed Adam and Eve on the correct Sacrifice(And I'm certain from the GOD'S conversation with Cain that he was well aware of the correct "offering".
The "suffering" associated with the "tilling of the soil" was the results of Disobedience and the change of just "dressing the Garden" and having "dominion" over all of Creation.
But that was done for Mankind to remember who was/is Creator and ruler of all things.
That serpent/Satan was casted out of heaven for the very thing/point by which Eve was deceived. "Believing a lie."--predicated upon "lust".
Now look at the "example of JOB". Fully Obedient to the wishes of(loyalty to) GOD. Yet he was tempted to his limits by Satan. Did GOD not care? Of course, HE Did.
All who GOD loves HE will allow to be tried in the fires to reveal the purity of one's Faith/Love toward and for HIM. James 1:12-14, "Blessed [is] the man that endureth temptation: for when he is tried, he shall receive the crown of life, which the Lord hath promised to them that love him. Let no man say when he is tempted, I am tempted of God: for God cannot be tempted with evil, neither tempteth he any man: But every man is tempted, when he is drawn away of his own lust, and enticed".
Glenda, humans lie--- the Scriptures are True. It is wrong "interpretations which seem right to man-- which lead to destruction."
Glenda, can one be sure that one's prayed for answer is totally within the WILL of the Father? Just because what I ask for "pleases me"---Does that make it a must do for GOD to complete/answer? The Scriptures say No.
"Real answers" and "Real revelations/interpretations of the Messages of the Scriptures is what is found inside the Covers of the Bible. And it is the one who "overcomes" by those answers who will be given the "hoped for reward".
You stated "I am toally afraid of losing my Faith". Is your "Faith" based upon 45 years of "interpretations" which you have determined to be not correct?.
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sincerly
Well-Known Member
That English word "soul" was translated from the Hebrew word Nephesh which is found in the KJV and has these meanings according to the context.Total: 753
AV soul 475, life 117, person 29, mind 15, heart 15, creature 9, body 8, himself 8, yourselves 6, dead 5, will 4, desire 4, man 3, themselves 3, any 3, appetite 2, misc 47
Therefore, Adam became a "living person/soul/Being" when the "breath of life" was given to him/and his "molded dust." in none of those 753 usages is there and modification to indicate some apart from Adam as being everlasting/immortal.
Jesus plainly is stated to be in heaven where HIS Father is NOW. There as our intercessor/mediator before the Father. In John 14, Jesus states there are two Resurrections. The first one is for the Redeemed(dead and alive) at The Second Coming of Jesus and at that time it will be to take the Redeemed to those mansions in the Father's house. There is no scriptural evidence for a 1000 year reign by Jesus upon this earth.
Satan will be "bound" during those 1000 years and as 2Thess.2:8 indicates the living Wicked "at his Coming" will be destroyed(die) at that time.
There will be no one alive of the human family left upon earth during that 1000 years.