Biden-Trump Debate

[England my lionheart]

The fact that the Supreme Court is on Trump's side is because Trump and Mitch McConnell broke every rule -- and then broke them the other way when convenient -- in the most hypocritical set of transactions I think I've ever seen in government. You (or your son) are certainly correct that money decides justice in far too many cases. That's pretty sad, really. And you are also correct that SCOTUS is taking sides -- and that's unconscionable in my mind. But Americans are so competetive, the only thing that often matters is winning. Doing so fairly or justly is of much less concern.

It's true, Biden is an ageing gentleman. So am I. I am usually very articulate, but I have experienced exactly those moments where I lose a word, and that raises a bit of panic, and the panic causes a cascade that is called "an amygdala hijack." (An amygdala hijack occurs when any strong emotion — anger, fear, or even extreme excitement — impairs the prefrontal cortex, the part of the brain in the frontal lobe that regulates rational thought. Research from 2016 suggests an inverse relationship between the amygdala and the prefrontal cortex.)

It is, if you've ever experienced one, extremely difficult to recover from. And it happens to most people, at one time or another -- especially under extremely stressful conditions. It resembles a panic attack like when you suddenly realize you can't remember whether you locked you dog in the hot car an hour and a half ago.

The Democrats have to nominate a candidate to carry the banner far enough before the election (which is constitutionally fixed) to be able to campaign. That really can't be after the end of August, or there'd simply be no time -- meaning they'd lose on a pure technicality. Not a wise choice if they believe (as I confess I do) that Trump is an existential threat to the nation itself. So, realistically, they have to find and vet somebody in just 8 weeks! In the United States! Do you really think there's anybody just now that has the name recognition to get there? Because -- once again -- if there isn't, the result is a Trump presidency and all that entails.

Sorry for the late reply,I think if your planning a long term goal you don’t have an elderly man leading the way especially after the Afghan debacle,it’s too late now but I still think Swallwell or someone like him would destroy Trump,it should have been obvious 2 years ago imo.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Sorry for the late reply,I think if your planning a long term goal you don’t have an elderly man leading the way especially after the Afghan debacle,it’s too late now but I still think Swallwell or someone like him would destroy Trump,it should have been obvious 2 years ago imo.

Four years is not "the long term" in my view (even though I'm old).

And the Afghan debacle was totally set in motion by Trump. Biden was severely constrained in what he could do by decisions that Trump had signed off on. You can see that here: U.S. review of chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal blames Trump

 

[England my lionheart]

Four years is not "the long term" in my view (even though I'm old).

And the Afghan debacle was totally set in motion by Trump. Biden was severely constrained in what he could do by decisions that Trump had signed off on. You can see that here: U.S. review of chaotic Afghanistan withdrawal blames Trump

Biden inherited lots of crap from Trump there’s no denying that but I still say he’s to old for the job imo.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Biden inherited lots of crap from Trump there’s no denying that but I still say he’s to old for the job imo.

Too much experience?

I wonder how many people, when their grandparents get "too old for the job" of grandparenting, fire them? Okay, bad analogy, I agree. But I'm not going to take it out -- it sets the stage for thinking.

Do you know when Joe will die? Or Kamala, or you or me or anyone? I don't think so.

But here's another thing to think about -- you say that Biden is too old for the job, but I point out to you something else: he's been doing it for 3 1/2 years, and it doesn't look like the accomplishments of his administration are slowing down.

• Okay, he's not doing so great on immigration -- and yet he's issued over 500 executivw actions on that. But those don't come with the resources Congress can provide -- and the Republican House won't move. Blame Biden? Or Republicans?
• The number of Americans without health insurance is at an all-time low under his administration.
• Salary increases and employment are outpacing inflation. Like it or not, that's true.
• The cost of living is in fact going down -- the rapid pace of disinflation under Biden is unmatched in modern history.
• Green spending is booming -- it's not enough, but it's better than it's ever been.
• American families are richer than ever. You may not believe it, but you can find out if you look.
• Inequality is narrowing-- the rise in real wages for lower-income workers is bridging the gap.
• The equity market is booming (even though bonds are a weak spot).
• Violent crimes, especially homicide, have in fact fallen.
• Costs of some drugs are lower, infrastructure has gotten a bid-partisan boost of huge size, and Americans are on the way to making their own computer chips.

All of that is actually true, which means that somehow the administration is getting the job done. And yet, you insist that Biden is too old to do the job. So who, in your opinion, is doing it?

 

[England my lionheart]

Too much experience?

I wonder how many people, when their grandparents get "too old for the job" of grandparenting, fire them? Okay, bad analogy, I agree. But I'm not going to take it out -- it sets the stage for thinking.

Do you know when Joe will die? Or Kamala, or you or me or anyone? I don't think so.

But here's another thing to think about -- you say that Biden is too old for the job, but I point out to you something else: he's been doing it for 3 1/2 years, and it doesn't look like the accomplishments of his administration are slowing down.

• Okay, he's not doing so great on immigration -- and yet he's issued over 500 executivw actions on that. But those don't come with the resources Congress can provide -- and the Republican House won't move. Blame Biden? Or Republicans?
• The number of Americans without health insurance is at an all-time low under his administration.
• Salary increases and employment are outpacing inflation. Like it or not, that's true.
• The cost of living is in fact going down -- the rapid pace of disinflation under Biden is unmatched in modern history.
• Green spending is booming -- it's not enough, but it's better than it's ever been.
• American families are richer than ever. You may not believe it, but you can find out if you look.
• Inequality is narrowing-- the rise in real wages for lower-income workers is bridging the gap.
• The equity market is booming (even though bonds are a weak spot).
• Violent crimes, especially homicide, have in fact fallen.
• Costs of some drugs are lower, infrastructure has gotten a bid-partisan boost of huge size, and Americans are on the way to making their own computer chips.

All of that is actually true, which means that somehow the administration is getting the job done. And yet, you insist that Biden is too old to do the job. So who, in your opinion, is doing it?

It’s obvious he’s not doing it on his own,he has a team of advisors and admistrators,he’s done a good job with the above but is it enough to win the election?,for me nobody has really confronted Trump,those who have get him rattled and he failed to do that imo.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

It’s obvious he’s not doing it on his own,he has a team of advisors and admistrators,he’s done a good job with the above but is it enough to win the election?,for me nobody has really confronted Trump,those who have get him rattled and he failed to do that imo.

Does any President do the job without a team of advisors and administrators? And you think that not being able to "rattle" a habitual liar is an issue, then you don't understand how those critters work. You can't rattle somebody who's already got another lie in wait, just in case.

 

[England my lionheart]

Does any President do the job without a team of advisors and administrators? And you think that not being able to "rattle" a habitual liar is an issue, then you don't understand how those critters work. You can't rattle somebody who's already got another lie in wait, just in case.

Then those lies should be called out and qualified as such,there were ample opportunities to do so.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Then those lies should be called out and qualified as such,there were ample opportunities to do so.

Do you know how hard it is to call out someone as a liar? How many facts do you have to have at your fingertips, so that you don't get accused of lying yourself?

And here's another thing -- in any debate, in any human interaction, calling someone a "liar" is a huge no-no. Go ahead, try it here on RF. Even if you know that I am telling a lie, if you call me a "liar" on this forum, you will be censured.

Just for example, standing on a stage, knowing millions are watching you, and Trump says, "I never had sex with a porn star," what do you say? You know he did -- he was convicted of covering that up in a court of law after a jury of his peers listened to testimony under oath, under penalty of perjury! So, what do you say? "Yes you did!" Oh, that's convincing, and he responds, "did not" and you say "did too" and you're back in the school yard again!

 

[We Never Know]

Sad...

I agree its sad. Its sad for anyone to get/be that way as they age.

 

[England my lionheart]

Do you know how hard it is to call out someone as a liar? How many facts do you have to have at your fingertips, so that you don't get accused of lying yourself?

And here's another thing -- in any debate, in any human interaction, calling someone a "liar" is a huge no-no. Go ahead, try it here on RF. Even if you know that I am telling a lie, if you call me a "liar" on this forum, you will be censured.

Just for example, standing on a stage, knowing millions are watching you, and Trump says, "I never had sex with a porn star," what do you say? You know he did -- he was convicted of covering that up in a court of law after a jury of his peers listened to testimony under oath, under penalty of perjury! So, what do you say? "Yes you did!" Oh, that's convincing, and he responds, "did not" and you say "did too" and you're back in the school yard again!

Every time Trump opens his mouth it’s followed by lies,it doesn’t have to be about porn stars,he is a traitor to the American people,the documents,Jan 6th insurrection,covid etc,there’s a reason he would never take the stand in a court room,he’s a habitual liar and cannot stand up to hard questions,I’m off to bed,good night.

 

[Regiomontanus]

I agree its sad. Its sad for anyone to get/be that way as they age.

What is worse: being that age with some cognitive issues (Biden), or being (approximately) that age and being a sociopathic liar, narcissist, and seditionist (Trump)? What say you?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Sorry for the late reply,I think if your planning a long term goal you don’t have an elderly man leading the way especially after the Afghan debacle,it’s too late now but I still think Swallwell or someone like him would destroy Trump,it should have been obvious 2 years ago imo.

The "Afghan debacle" belongs to both of them. It was Trump's plan. He was just too big of a coward to pull it off. Biden had little choice in the matter. He could either go through with it or leave the mess for the next administration.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

Too much experience?

I wonder how many people, when their grandparents get "too old for the job" of grandparenting, fire them? Okay, bad analogy, I agree. But I'm not going to take it out -- it sets the stage for thinking.

Do you know when Joe will die? Or Kamala, or you or me or anyone? I don't think so.

But here's another thing to think about -- you say that Biden is too old for the job, but I point out to you something else: he's been doing it for 3 1/2 years, and it doesn't look like the accomplishments of his administration are slowing down.

• Okay, he's not doing so great on immigration -- and yet he's issued over 500 executivw actions on that. But those don't come with the resources Congress can provide -- and the Republican House won't move. Blame Biden? Or Republicans?

So he issued over 500 executive actions and you still say he is not doing great on immigration. Maybe the executive actions are not very effective.

• The number of Americans without health insurance is at an all-time low under his administration.

If this is true it is good news. I found this report from the CDC. It says uninsured has fallen 26% since 2019. It said they updated the methodology so you cannot compare numbers prior to 2019. So claiming all time low may be dubious. How has the coverage been? Mine premiums have gone up but coverage has gone down. That should be looked at. Is the coverage any good?

• Salary increases and employment are outpacing inflation. Like it or not, that's true.

I am not sure this is true. Depends how you look at it. You should look at real wages (wages adjusted for inflation)

Infographic: Have Wages Kept Up With Inflation?

This chart shows the cumulative change in nominal and real wages as well as the Consumer Price Index in the United States since January 2020.

www.statista.com

Real hourly wage increase has been up 1.5% over the last 4.5 years. That is 0.3% increase in real wages per year. Under Trump real wages increased 7% for the 4 years he served (most since the 70's), that is 1.75% per year almost 6 times that of Biden's admin. And this is even with his presidency ending with a pandemic.

• The cost of living is in fact going down -- the rapid pace of disinflation under Biden is unmatched in modern history.

Do you have a source for this one? How can this be when prices are not going down anywhere. The rate is going down at historic levels because it was at historic levels under his admin. The inflation rate today is 3.3%. Under Biden it has been 1.2%, 4.7%, 8.0% and 4.1%. Trump was 2.1%, 1.9%, 2.3%, 1.4%. It is still historically bad under Biden.

• Green spending is booming -- it's not enough, but it's better than it's ever been.

Ok

• American families are richer than ever. You may not believe it, but you can find out if you look.

The average has been 3.6% per year over the last 50 years. This is because property values generally go up over time and people continue to invest. So you can say that almost every year over the past 50 years except the recession years.

• Inequality is narrowing-- the rise in real wages for lower-income workers is bridging the gap.

Discussed above

• The equity market is booming (even though bonds are a weak spot).

Dow was up 53% under Trump, it is up 14% under Biden.

• Violent crimes, especially homicide, have in fact fallen.

It increased during the pandemic and is coming down now to Trump prior pandemic levels. U.S.: reported violent crime 2022 | Statista

• Costs of some drugs are lower, infrastructure has gotten a bid-partisan boost of huge size, and Americans are on the way to making their own computer chips.

If this is true it is a good thing.

All of that is actually true, which means that somehow the administration is getting the job done. And yet, you insist that Biden is too old to do the job. So who, in your opinion, is doing it?

True with context as I have shown.

 

[Kathryn]

Yet Hillary, uninspiring as she was, received
a majority of votes against Trump. So blaming
Harris's failure to inspire voters on being female
rings hollow.

Yes, she was uninspiring.

 

[Kathryn]

I would have like an active fact checker for both candidates. You would have found that Trump lied on the order of ten times as often.

I checked out the lies told by both parties and they were, frankly, miniscule.

 

[F1fan]

It’s obvious he’s not doing it on his own,he has a team of advisors and admistrators,

All presidents have a cabinet and agency heads that do the vast majority of running the country. The great thing about Biden is his competency in hiring good people. Compare the people Trump is considering to execute the 2025 Agenda. It's horrific. He's also considering eliminating many agencies, like the department of education. That will leave states on their own to fund and manage their education systems. Some red states may ban teaching evolution given the strong evangelical influence.

he’s done a good job with the above but is it enough to win the election?

It should be given the opponent. A wet and moldy mop is superior to Trump.

,for me nobody has really confronted Trump,those who have get him rattled and he failed to do that imo.

You don't think Trump is rattled? The guy is a performer, but even as a guy who plays the character of Trump he eventually followed the rules in court and had to behave like a decent Verson being held accountable for crimes. I have followed a few podcasts that assess Trump's mental state over time, and as events unford around him, and they make some interesting observations and assessments. Watching Trump's face when Biden said that he was criminal during the debate was priceless. Trump knew it is true.

 

[InChrist]

Do you plan to watch?

If so, might it influence your vote?​

I didn’t watch. I don’t think I can muster a vote for either. I feel like a vote for Biden is a vote for endless war and profit for the military-industrial complex. Besides, I don’t think Biden is mentally competent. Trump is a narcissist, a big talker, and seems more interested in himself than the country. I often wonder if he’s simply being used as a distraction. I don’t think Trump would even be in the picture if the DNC hadn’t interfered in the first place back in 2015…

“An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.

In its self-described "pied piper" strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new "mainstream of the Republican Party" in order to try to increase Clinton's chances of winning.”

How the Hillary Clinton campaign deliberately "elevated" Donald Trump with its "pied piper" strategy

An email released by WikiLeaks shows how the Democratic Party purposefully "elevated" Trump to "leader of the pack"

www.salon.com

Now, it seems even many Democrats are ready to throw Biden under the bus. It seems to me there are vastly more serious threats to our country than loud-mouthed Trump, which aren’t being addressed because the focus is mostly on obsession with Trump, now Biden.


“We saw this same strategy during the Republican primaries this year, in which the media gave precious little coverage to Trump’s Republican contenders. Indeed, since 2015, the Times’s entire business model has been largely a function of catering to Trump Derangement Syndrome. Without Trump, the paper would now be almost as moribund as the Boston Globe, which the Times purchased for $1.1 billion in 1993 and sold for $70 million in 2013.

Right now, the top five threats facing the American people are the following:

1). Escalating war with nuclear-armed Russia.

2). Inflation that is already badly hurting the working and middle classes, and could ruin everyone but the ultra rich if it spirals out of control.

3). Executive branch infringement of the freedom of speech, which has always been one of the first moves of every tyrant in history.

4). Executive branch influence on the judiciary to prosecute political opponents for bogus crimes—a favorite tactic of every dictator in history.

5). Out of control federal government money creation and spending that could eventually destroy the U.S. dollar and ruin most citizens whose savings are in U.S. dollars.”

NYT: "To Serve His Country, President Biden Should Leave the Race"

More duplicitous choreography from political hacks on Times editorial board.

petermcculloughmd.substack.com

Sometimes, I wonder if there will even be an election or is something going to happen to prevent or disrupt it. We’ll see.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So he issued over 500 executive actions and you still say he is not doing great on immigration. Maybe the executive actions are not very effective.

As I said, executive actions don't come with the resources Congress can provide (like MONEY). You might think a President can do anything at absolutely no cost, but that's no more true for a President than it is for a garbage man. And the Republican House (the guys with the money) refuses to act --- on Donald Trump's orders.

I'm disappointed you ignored half the sentence you responded to.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

“An email recently released by the whistleblowing organization WikiLeaks shows how the Clinton campaign and Democratic Party bear direct responsibility for propelling the bigoted billionaire to the White House.

In its self-described "pied piper" strategy, the Clinton campaign proposed intentionally cultivating extreme right-wing presidential candidates, hoping to turn them into the new "mainstream of the Republican Party" in order to try to increase Clinton's chances of winning.”

You quote an an article exposing an abysmal strategy about promoting an abysmal "bigoted billionaire" "extreme right-wing presidential candidate" while you whine that you can't "muster a vote for either." Apparently you are perfectly willing to muster a 4-year extreme right-wing bigoted administration willing and capable of inflicting unimaginable harm to science, the rule of law, reproductive care, and human rights in general.

So, what have we learned? We've learned that Clinton's campaign was willing to propel a neo-fascist white-nationalist candidate that you're willing to propel into office. Well done.

 

[Clizby Wampuscat]

As I said, executive actions don't come with the resources Congress can provide (like MONEY). You might think a President can do anything at absolutely no cost, but that's no more true for a President than it is for a garbage man. And the Republican House (the guys with the money) refuses to act --- on Donald Trump's orders.

I'm disappointed you ignored half the sentence you responded to.

Why was the border more secure when Trump was president than Biden? Trump did not need this legislation, why does Biden need it?

How would this legislation help stop illegal people from entering the country?