Birmingham Muslims pull their kids out of LGBT-inclusive lessons

[Kangaroo Feathers]

LGBT characters has increase dramatically since the 70s and 80s in children shows.

List of animated works with LGBT characters - Wikipedia

You realise that list isn't of kid's shows, right?

Sure "LGBT characters has increase dramatically since the 70s and 80s in children shows." if we accept an increase of anything greater than 0 as "dramatic". I'm the father of a 12 year old, so I've watched quite a bit of kids' TV in the past 12 years. I honestly can't think of a single gay character from any kids' TV show I can think of, and, like, one minor side character in a single movie.

 

[Notanumber]

Let's break this down...

Hate speech is speech that incites violence. As far as I am aware they may be somewhat intimidating but they are not violent...unlike virtually all of the right wing marches of late. Another 6 or more arrested on Friday I note.


I believe in protest marches; yes, I do have problems with marches against LGBT, BUT I don't want those marches banned, I want counter marches, debate and discussion showing them to be wrong.
I don't agree with UKIP or Britain First marches but I don't want them banned.

Let these marches continue and prove who the dinosaurs are.


Unfortunately it does. It also has the right to be misogynous which I also disagree with. Religion has too many rights and privilidges that I find unfair. That's why I am a member of Humanist UK and fight against such things.


Immense sympathy, and the authorities and politicians and governors should do everything to support and protect her (?)

You claim to be for free speech but it is very obvious you are only for 'your kind' of free speech.

The Left seems to defend Islam because it is classed as an oppressed minority but can the Left also defend the even more oppressed LBGT sub-minority?

What side of the fence will they come down on?

 

[Altfish]

The Left seems to defend Islam because it is classed as an oppressed minority but can the Left also defend the even more oppressed LBGT sub-minority?

What side of the fence will they come down on?

Everything is so black and white to you. You are either a Muslim hater or an LBGT hater. I am neither.

As someone with gay close family members I certainly have nothing but admiration for them.
Where we differ is that I don't tar all Muslims with the same brush

I think you will find that most 'left wing' people are pro LGBT and will defend Muslims against the unfair press it gets.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

It would be extremely helpful to the whole world if Muslims openly declared denominations or sects or whatever, that specifically addressed such crucial differences in beliefs. So for example, it would be fantastic if there was a "non-Sharia" denomination of Islam that individuals could declare themselves a part of.

Well, there are liberal Muslims, progressive Muslims, and Islamic Modernists (the latter of various flavours, including those who would resist the establishment or spread of Shariah within society), not to mention non-denominational Muslims (e.g. those who prefer to identify as 'just Muslim' in surveys, rather than identify with any particular denomination or sect).

 

[columbus]

Seems simple enough to me. When you were 8 or 10 were you made aware that the bond between your parents was also sexual?

What does sex have to do with it?

I'm from a very large family oriented family. I have a flock of nieces and nephews who all grew up in a world with a gay uncle. They all knew that I had a partner who they put in the category with all their other aunts and uncles by marriage.

They understood relationships long before sex entered into anything.

Why is that hard to understand?

Or, more precisely, why do so many people feel the need to insert sex into a facet of the human situation that might not have anything to do with it? What I'm seeing here is the same people who insist on talking about sex complaining about children being exposed to sex. That's irrational and ridiculous, complaining about something while also insisting on doing it.
Tom

 

[sooda]

What does sex have to do with it?

I'm from a very large family oriented family. I have a flock of nieces and nephews who all grew up in a world with a gay uncle. They all knew that I had a partner who they put in the category with all their other aunts and uncles by marriage.

They understood relationships long before sex entered into anything.

Why is that hard to understand?

Or, more precisely, why do so many people feel the need to insert sex into a facet of the human situation that might not have anything to do with it? What I'm seeing here is the same people who insist on talking about sex complaining about children being exposed to sex. That's irrational and ridiculous, complaining about something while also insisting on doing it.
Tom

You probably should read the thread. You're jumping on the wrong person.

 

[icehorse]

Well, there are liberal Muslims, progressive Muslims, and Islamic Modernists (the latter of various flavours, including those who would resist the establishment or spread of Shariah within society), not to mention non-denominational Muslims (e.g. those who prefer to identify as 'just Muslim' in surveys, rather than identify with any particular denomination or sect).

Given the problematic nature of the ideology, I think folks like the Muslim Reform Movement are on the correct path. As opposed to denying and obscuring what Islam is, they are making clear, explicit declarations about the version of Islam they support.

 

[Notanumber]

Everything is so black and white to you. You are either a Muslim hater or an LBGT hater. I am neither.

As someone with gay close family members I certainly have nothing but admiration for them.
Where we differ is that I don't tar all Muslims with the same brush

I think you will find that most 'left wing' people are pro LGBT and will defend Muslims against the unfair press it gets.

Interesting how you are now trying to take the moral high ground after you defended homophobes.

How is the Left going to defend LGBT Muslims against their Islamic oppressors.

As I have said many times before – no one knows what all Muslims believe but we do know what they are being taught to believe and LGBT rights are not included.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

Given the problematic nature of the ideology, I think folks like the Muslim Reform Movement are on the correct path. As opposed to denying and obscuring what Islam is, they are making clear, explicit declarations about the version of Islam they support.

The correct path?

 

[icehorse]

The correct path?

The path towards modern human rights for all.

 

[Altfish]

Interesting how you are now trying to take the moral high ground after you defended homophobes.

How is the Left going to defend LGBT Muslims against their Islamic oppressors.

As I have said many times before – no one knows what all Muslims believe but we do know what they are being taught to believe and LGBT rights are not included.

Moral high ground! You do read some strange things into my posts.
I am not very far left, I'd describe myself slightly left of centre; I'm probably nearer to some centrist Tory MPs that the likes of Corbyn. I make no apologies for the lunatic left- I wish you'd do the same for the lunatic right but you seen to revel in them.
Governments need to stand firm and say to Muslims, "These are the lessons we are teaching, come and listen to the lesson one evening, there is no indoctrination," The same with orthodox Jews and some fundamentalist Christians. If you want to go to a public funded school you take the full spectrum of their lessons. These are lessons in life, I am a great believer in schools teaching Religious Education - what I mean is talking about the world's religions (and non-belief) explaining their differences and similarities - there should not be a focus on Christianity.

I can't comprehend how you can now state, "...no one knows what all Muslims believe...", ever since I've engaged with you on here you have been telling me what they believe.

You tackle the homophobic stance of people by teaching tolerance and understanding, it may take a couple of generations but it will happen.

 

[Notanumber]

Moral high ground! You do read some strange things into my posts.
I am not very far left, I'd describe myself slightly left of centre; I'm probably nearer to some centrist Tory MPs that the likes of Corbyn. I make no apologies for the lunatic left- I wish you'd do the same for the lunatic right but you seen to revel in them.
Governments need to stand firm and say to Muslims, "These are the lessons we are teaching, come and listen to the lesson one evening, there is no indoctrination," The same with orthodox Jews and some fundamentalist Christians. If you want to go to a public funded school you take the full spectrum of their lessons. These are lessons in life, I am a great believer in schools teaching Religious Education - what I mean is talking about the world's religions (and non-belief) explaining their differences and similarities - there should not be a focus on Christianity.

I can't comprehend how you can now state, "...no one knows what all Muslims believe...", ever since I've engaged with you on here you have been telling me what they believe.

You tackle the homophobic stance of people by teaching tolerance and understanding, it may take a couple of generations but it will happen.

I wish I could have your optimism.

I find Islam disgusting and suspect that many Muslims will think the same way if they are enlightened.

The problem is that Muslim youngsters are being indoctrinated and that is the reason that their parents are against the promotion of LGBT rights.

 

[Altfish]

I wish I could have your optimism.

I find Islam disgusting and suspect that many Muslims will think the same way if they are enlightened.

The problem is that Muslim youngsters are being indoctrinated and that is the reason that their parents are against the promotion of LGBT rights.

We need to encourage them to come out of the Bubble.

 

[Altfish]

I wish I could have your optimism.

I find Islam disgusting and suspect that many Muslims will think the same way if they are enlightened.

The problem is that Muslim youngsters are being indoctrinated and that is the reason that their parents are against the promotion of LGBT rights.

The trouble with taking this attitude is that Muslims just become 'entrenched', they feel persecuted and the extremists are encouraged.

It is not a quick process but time is a great healer.

 

[sooda]

The Left seems to defend Islam because it is classed as an oppressed minority but can the Left also defend the even more oppressed LBGT sub-minority?

What side of the fence will they come down on?

Do you believe in civil rights?

 

[sooda]

I wish I could have your optimism.

I find Islam disgusting and suspect that many Muslims will think the same way if they are enlightened.

The problem is that Muslim youngsters are being indoctrinated and that is the reason that their parents are against the promotion of LGBT rights.

Why? Do you know any Muslims? Have you ever sat and talked with Muslims or had dinner with Muslims?

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Why? Do you know any Muslims? Have you ever sat and talked with Muslims or had dinner with Muslims?

Yes. The strawman Muslims that populate his imagination. Unfortunately, they only say "Allahu Akbar", and he only replies in Dirty Harry and Die Hard quotes before saving the young nubile women from their dastardly clutches.

 

[sooda]

Yes. The strawman Muslims that populate his imagination. Unfortunately, they only say "Allahu Akbar", and he only replies in Dirty Harry and Die Hard quotes before saving the young nubile women from their dastardly clutches.

Muslims in the Arab world say Allahu Akbar for all sorts of small things.. like coming to a safe stop when a tire blows. It just means God is great.

 

[Kangaroo Feathers]

Muslims in the Arab world say Allahu Akbar for all sorts of small things.. like coming to a safe stop when a tire blows. It just means God is great.

I am aware of that. However, in the fever dreams of a certain class of xenophobe, the phrase is inextricably intertwined with suicide bombers, strawman central casting versions of whom I am invoking.

 

[sooda]

I am aware of that. However, in the fever dreams of a certain class of xenophobe, the phrase is inextricably intertwined with suicide bombers, strawman central casting versions of whom I am invoking.

They just don't know any better.