Black people, stop embarrassing yourselves!

[Saint Frankenstein]

And I've said before that, at this point, if I were racist, I'd be racist against both black and white people since I'm a misanthrope who dislikes humanity as a whole.

 

[psychoslice]

How come black people have to stop embarrassing themselves, but cops don't have to stop unjustly killing people?

Who knows, someone one has to stop all this crap, no matte who.

 

[Shad]

Back when doing my undergrad work in the 1960's, I took a course in race relations, and one of the books we had to read was one entitled "Soulside", which was written after a study by a Swedish anthropologist who came to America to try and figure out why there's so much hostility in this country over race. There's a series of reasons, but let me focus in on one of them for a minute.

When you have an element that grows up with the feeling they have no future, other priorities tend to take the place. The author noted that this was the feeling of all too many, right or wrong, within the poor black community. They see other poor black kids graduating from high school, and yet they can't find a job. Many can't go on to college because they can't afford it. Immediate gratification then tends to take priority over delayed gratification. Middle and upper-income whites, especially the white police, tend to be viewed with suspicion, and are often perceived as enemies.

In the 1960's, I worked for Chrysler for one summer, Ford for two summers. G.M. for one summer, and the DPW for two summers. These were good paying jobs, and all I had to do was to walk in and fill out the applications, although some pull at times helped. Can young people do this today? Instead of using computers and machinery to help all of us, instead they were used to cut jobs, thus separating the middle class and hurting the lower income and the parts of the middle income population that slipped downward. This has affected not only lower-income blacks, but also lower-income whites and also many middle-income whites, including adults, that are struggling.

Does this somehow excuse the riots we see in Baltimore? Of course not. But we have to realize the frustration that not only many blacks have, but also many whites as well. And yet we continue to roll on, allowing more and more of the wealth to go to the top while both lower and middle income struggle and frustration sets in. Instead of working hard to try and create more jobs, we have laws that actually favor not creating new jobs and/or shipping them out of the country.

If we don't work on doing something about this, then there's going to be a lot of "Baltimores" in our future,

This is also part of the religious and cultural identity of America. If you advance from poor to rich you worked hard or God blessed you. If you are poor and remain poor you are lazy or God does not favour you. Take a look at the groups which oppose social benefits. They either use the "work harder" rhetoric or the religious rhetoric. Wealth became a blessing from God rather than how wealth is viewed in the NT. Wealth gains have nothing to do with environment but working hard. /repeat

 

[Awoon]

The "black community" is the part of town where you see a large number of cars like this:

And they're all blaring rap with the subwoofers turned up so loud, it makes your teeth rattle.

20 Foes

 

[Debater Slayer]

This has to be one of the most racist threads and thread titles I have seen on this forum.

 

[metis]

Er, I highly doubt that these riots and flash mobs that have been taking place throughout the country the last few years have much to do with black kids being unable to find jobs or go to college. Most of the ones involved in those behaviors are high school kids and they organize these things on Twitter and Facebook The Baltimore riot was planned beforehand and the Freddie Gray thing is just a convenient backdrop. They're not exactly dirt poor, either. They have smartphones, wear expensive clothing (you think those brand-name urban/streetwear lines are cheap? Ha!), wear expensive shoes, the girls have expensive purses, many of them have cars, etc. No, this is not a matter of righteous frustration or anger, really. This is a cultural problem. Some aspects of the prevailing culture encourages black teens in the inner city to act like morons and become criminals. They don't have a stable family structure at home and so, a lot of the time, there's no one to teach them right from wrong. They don't want to listen to politicians, teachers, the police or other authority figures because they see them as "the man" and, if they're black, "Uncle Toms". (Obama's getting called an "Uncle Tom" on Twitter right now because of what he said about the riots earlier today.) Their heroes are rappers who encourage violence, crime and mayhem in their lyrics and who are in gangs themselves (or were, or never were and are just exploiting an image for profit).

Trust me, I see the REAL dirt poor and downtrodden people when I go to the community health center. Those people are homeless, have major mental health problems, are drug addicts, alcoholics, etc. And there's about an even spread of white people who go there, too. Those are not the sort of people you see rioting or taking part in those violent flash mobs.

It's not an either/or situation, so we are both correct in citing the fact that there are some different variables at play here, and none of them should be discounted. As an anthropologist who has studied the effects of poverty, that very much comes into play because of the general atmosphere it creates. When people grow up in an atmosphere whereas they don't see a way out, then they are likely to do a lot of things that are wrong. OTOH, there is no doubt many who are lazy and violent and corrupt, and this reality also must be taken into consideration.

Therefore, if we attack only one part of the causes of the problems, then we'll simply be singing in the wind. And my main point is that without creating more jobs one way or another, these problems will simply persist. Just throwing more people in jail ain't gonna work. Under-funding education in poor areas ain't gonna work. Just preaching ain't gonna work.

This is not only a societal problem, it's also a personal problem with millions of Americans, so we have a choice: we can just sweep it all under the rug and make all sorts of excuses, or we can actually take steps to improve job opportunities, make for better schools, work harder on community policing whereas Joe Cop gets the opportunity to work in the same area for many years and gets to know the people there and they get to know him/her, etc. Young kids are highly influenced by what they see around them, and if they're not seeing success with those kids and adults that are older, then they tend to begin to more mimic that which is all around them.

This is very much a cultural issue, and this same scenario is commonplace, not only here but worldwide.

 

[metis]

This is also part of the religious and cultural identity of America. If you advance from poor to rich you worked hard or God blessed you. If you are poor and remain poor you are lazy or God does not favour you. Take a look at the groups which oppose social benefits. They either use the "work harder" rhetoric or the religious rhetoric. Wealth became a blessing from God rather than how wealth is viewed in the NT. Wealth gains have nothing to do with environment but working hard. /repeat

Agreed, and let me bring up another point that I think you'll agree with.

We spent roughly a trillion dollars propping up our banks since the beginning of the Great Recession, and rightfully so as we could not allow our economy to collapse, but why haven't we done much at all to help encourage the creation of more jobs, the repairing of our infrastructure, and encourage the rebuilding of our crumbling cities? I'm not talking about issuing more handouts-- I'm talking about changing some of our laws and procedures to create more jobs, and this can and has been done before, so we do know how to do it and what it takes to do it.

 

[columbus]

This has to be one of the most racist threads and thread titles I have seen on this forum.

I AM NOT A RACIST.
Here in Indiana we have laws against racial discrimination.





And crime is for black people.
Tom

 

[JacobEzra.]

I AM NOT A RACIST.
Here in Indiana we have laws against racial discrimination.





And crime is for black people.
Tom

Lol. And laws protecting discrimination on religious grounds.

 

[Twilight Hue]

It appears a call is being made to bring back a new form of puesdo- "segregation" the greater good and peace of society.

 

[David M]

So there was riots and looting in Baltimore during the protests of Freddie Gray's death in police custody on Saturday night:.

Black people protest and some of them riot because a member of their community was killed by the police.
Some white people riot because their sports team lost.

Which is more despicable?

Violence is rarely the answer but protesting against racism and injustice is admirable.

 

[leibowde84]

Black people protest and some of them riot because a member of their community was killed by the police.
Some white people riot because their sports team lost.

Which is more despicable?

Violence is rarely the answer but protesting against racism and injustice is admirable.

What happened in Baltimore was not "protesting" by any means. It was nothing more than destructive, criminal behavior directed at many people who have nothing to do with the police. How is destroying private property "admireable"?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

This has to be one of the most racist threads and thread titles I have seen on this forum.

Give me a break. As I said before, either comment on what I and others have been saying or don't even bother. Worry about real racism and stop trying to dismiss people's perspectives just because they don't fit a certain narrative.

That's how it feels - like people are trying to dismiss what I say as if I've committed a thought crime. Well, I'm not going to shut up. Deal with it.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It appears a call is being made to bring back a new form of puesdo- "segregation" the greater good and peace of society.

No, that's not helpful either. The black family unit needs to be fixed and black children need to be raised with a sense of stability, dignity and self-esteem and they also need to lose their "hate whitey" attitudes.

 

[Debater Slayer]

Give me a break. As I said before, either comment on what I and others have been saying or don't even bother. Worry about real racism and stop trying to dismiss people's perspectives just because they don't fit a certain narrative.

That's how it feels - like people are trying to dismiss what I say as if I've committed a thought crime. Well, I'm not going to shut up. Deal with it.

Looks like I struck a nerve.

I call it as I see it. Anyone who has a problem with that will also have to deal with it. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, then it most certainly is a duck.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Looks like I struck a nerve.

I call it as I see it. Anyone who has a problem with that will also have to deal with it. If it walks like a duck, quacks like a duck, and swims like a duck, then it most certainly is a duck.

Do you even know what racism is? I've said many times before that this is not a racial issue. It has nothing to do with black people as a race. I've gotten into fights with racists on here trying to say that black people are biologically inferior. This is a social/cultural issue and the problem mostly lies with inner city black teen youth culture. That is the real issue at hand.

So if I'm a racist, then I'm a pretty ****ing poor excuse of one since I don't see any race as inferior or superior and I believe that all people have the power to change for better or worse.

I'm getting pissed about people being foolish coming in here and saying "that's racist!" and then not adding anything to this topic and then having the nerve to act all smug. It's very frustrating.

 

[Skwim]

Do you even know what racism is? I've said many times before that this is not a racial issue. It has nothing to do with black people as a race. I've gotten into fights with racists on here trying to say that black people are biologically inferior. This is a social/cultural issue and the problem mostly lies with inner city black teen youth culture. That is the real issue at hand.

So if I'm a racist, then I'm a pretty ****ing poor excuse of one since I don't see any race as inferior or superior and I believe that all people have the power to change for better or worse.

My thoughts exactly.

 

[lovemuffin]

Do you even know what racism is? I've said many times before that this is not a racial issue. It has nothing to do with black people as a race. I've gotten into fights with racists on here trying to say that black people are biologically inferior. This is a social/cultural issue and the problem mostly lies with inner city black teen youth culture. That is the real issue at hand.

So if I'm a racist, then I'm a pretty ****ing poor excuse of one since I don't see any race as inferior or superior and I believe that all people have the power to change for better or worse.

I'm getting pissed about people being foolish coming in here and saying "that's racist!" and then not adding anything to this topic and then having the nerve to act all smug. It's very frustrating.

Let me see if I can say something that might be useful. The reason why I agree both that this thread title, and much of the content, is 'racist', has little to do with thinking that individual posters hold an explicit belief in racial superiority. Rather, it's that the presuppositions of the thread title and the opinions of many posters serve mostly to perpetuate white supremacist myths about black people and about the history of violence related to race in America.

This is as much a function of ignorance as of willful racial prejudice. But concern about "racism" isn't just concern about explicit attitudes about racial superiority, it's about systematic injustice and injury, and the ways in which those injuries are perpetuated. One of those ways is through these longstanding complaints about how black communities aren't adequately policing themselves. It even has a name, it's called the "politics of respectability". But the problem is it's often used as a means of changing the subject from the very real racial injustices that continue to exist. Whether that happens intentionally, out of some racialist malice, or unintentionally, either way the result is the same. It's the systemic injustice that matters, more than individual attitudes, although the former does in some way reflect something of the latter.

On this specific topic, I recommend these three pieces:

Why Don't Black People Protest 'Black-on-Black Violence'? - The Atlantic
Black People Are Not Ignoring 'Black on Black' Crime - The Atlantic
The Case for Reparations - The Atlantic

There's more to be said, but following the links at least gives the beginning of an answer.

 

[Wirey]

This is a social/cultural issue and the problem mostly lies with inner city black teen youth culture. That is the real issue at hand.

Actually, perhaps the real issue at hand is what causes that inner city culture. Poor schools, coupled with little opportunity, being stuck in the middle of a society where it's acceptable to say "the problem mostly lies with inner city black teen youth culture", and a police force that routinely assumes you're guilty because you're a black inner city youth who has contributed to a culture of illegal activities (you know, the reason the cops stopped you in the first place) probably lead to this. And saying it out loud is racist, like it or not. When my Grandma used to tell me that black people got menial jobs because there weren't enough blood vessels in their brains to let them do jobs that required education, she didn't believe she was racist either. After all, if they didn't want to be black, they should have been born in Germany like normal people.

You may not think this is racist, but it is. Blaming someone for being black is exactly racist.

 

[suncowiam]

Since you're half black and live in the inner city, Saint Frankenstein, "stop embarrasing yourself!"