Black people, stop embarrassing yourselves!

[Duraza]

I'm amazed by how often this thread calls for a new MLK of Malcolm X. It's so excruciatingly common for people to say "We need a new Martin Luther King to deal with these Black people today and stop the rioting and get thugs off the streets."

You make arguments based on culturalism and strongly reject structuralism but then call for leaders like Malcolm and Martin who were STRUCTURALISTS to save the Black community. It shows how little you know about the problem and how you know absolutely nothing about America's Civil Rights movement.

"To sum up the general causes of riots, we would have to say that the white power structure is still seeking to keep the walls of segregation and inequality substantially intact while Negro determination to break through them has intensified." - one of many quotes on rioting by MLK.

But in today's world we are more obsessed with the image of MLK than of his actual words. Rioting is shameful violence. But it is not a root cause, nor is Black culture, or so MLK would argue. It is a side-effect of structural violence. As someone deontologically opposed to violence MLK would never approve rioting but he constantly said it was wrong to shame the rioter. That between the Rioter and the White man who preserves the current system of inequality, it is the White man who is "the hardened criminal," or as we like to say today "thug."

The reason why the poorest people in our nation don't riot is something social scientists have known since the 1980s if I remember right. Social capital and relative inequality. Rioting and revolution always come from marginalized groups in society who suffer relative inequality. Total inequality (i.e. absolute poverty) means a person has no social capital, no political voice or form whatsoever. Those suffering from absolute poverty are unable to speak.

Finally, if you're going to go around talking about how Blacks are embarrassing themselves for rioting how about you talk about White riots? OH DID YOU FORGET THAT THOSE HAPPEN OFTEN IN THIS COUNTRY TOO? DID YOU FORGET THEY HAPPEN OVER SPORTING EVENTS? That police are injured in the 10s and property damage goes into the millions for White riots? Of course you forgot. White rioting is insured for in the White Privilege protection plan.

11 Stunning Images Highlight the Double Standard of Reactions to Riots Like Baltimore - Mic

This thread is a bunch of bs.

(Sorry for being angry. I wrote this, stepped away, thought about editing it, then decided even if my anger is wrong and doesn't help you understand, at least my anger is honest.)

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Lol. It seems I've suddenly stepped into a Black Panther or Communist Party meeting. Um, rant on?

 

[Duraza]

Is that really your only reply?

I'm hardly even close to a Black Panther or a Communist. So you're telling me I told you that your perception of MLK is wrong and your only thought is to make fun of me because I'm passionate about something and I'm somewhat hurt by what you said?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Is that really your only reply?

I'm hardly even close to a Black Panther or a Communist. So you're telling me I told you that your perception of MLK is wrong and your only thought is to make fun of me because I'm passionate about something and I'm somewhat hurt by what you said?

Oh, your feelings are hurt? Aww. Join the club. Do you see what people have been saying about me in here?

 

[Godobeyer]

This has to be one of the most racist threads and thread titles I have seen on this forum.

why you take it in that way ? why you did not take as an advise , or blame for over reaction ?

Most of threads had generalize lables , but actuatly they are for individual deeds/issues .

 

[Duraza]

Oh, your feelings are hurt? Aww. Join the club. Do you see what people have been saying about me in here?

My point wasn't to make this anything about my feelings. My point was to call you out.

Stop hiding behind a weak attempt to change the argument. Respond to what I said. Can you really not think of anything substantive to say?

Edit: I'll even be more specific. As I said before, I just said your perception of MLK is entirely wrong or misinformed. Would you then respond that maybe Black America doesn't need leaders like him, because he would disagree with what you've said? If not, what would you say?

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

My point wasn't to make this anything about my feelings. My point was to call you out.

Stop hiding behind a weak attempt to change the argument. Respond to what I said. Can you really not think of anything substantive to say?

Edit: I'll even be more specific. As I said before, I just said your perception of MLK is entirely wrong or misinformed. Would you then respond that maybe Black America doesn't need leaders like him, because he would disagree with what you've said? If not, what would you say?

You're really all mad over MLK? If someone has an incorrect view of MLK, blame the school system and media for watering down his image.

 

[Duraza]

You're really all mad over MLK? If someone has an incorrect view of MLK, blame the school system and media for watering down his image.

I do blame the school system and media for watering down his image. It's inexcusable.

But right now I'm talking to you. And I want to know what you think because it matters to me. If you've accepted what I'm saying about MLK is true (and you don't have to, feel free to say that you don't want to trust my word and rather research for yourself) then explain to me what you think of him now.

Is he still fit to be representative of what Black leaders should be in your eyes if he would disagree with your argument entirely?

 

[suncowiam]

why you take it in that way ? why you did not take as an advise , or blame for over reaction ?

Most of threads had generalize lables , but actuatly they are for individual deeds/issues .

He changed his rhetoric after being called out. IMO, the very first post and especially the title was not presented in a constructive manner. It's a very sensitive nature to discuss and will incite responses from various angles. No one is going to disagree that the riots were wrong. But solely pointing the finger at the rioters and then further discussing the culture, history of the perceived rioters in this case is very unfair and very biased. It does not address all the issues at hand.

I was wrong too because I discussed the hip hop and rap culture in my earlier threads.

Godobeyer, do you know why the people are rioting?

 

[David M]

What happened in Baltimore was not "protesting" by any means. It was nothing more than destructive, criminal behavior directed at many people who have nothing to do with the police. How is destroying private property "admireable"?

It started as protesting. And I did not say that violence was admirable, I said that protest was admirable.

The US is still a racist society, its not surprising that its minorities react with anger to violence against them, its wrong to loot and riot but slightly understandable when long held anger builds up to a certain point. What is not understandable is rioting because a sodding sports team loses.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I do blame the school system and media for watering down his image. It's inexcusable.

But right now I'm talking to you. And I want to know what you think because it matters to me. If you've accepted what I'm saying about MLK is true (and you don't have to, feel free to say that you don't want to trust my word and rather research for yourself) then explain to me what you think of him now.

Is he still fit to be representative of what Black leaders should be in your eyes if he would disagree with your argument entirely?

If he was more of a radical and excusing violence, then he's not really what the black community needs now, no.

 

[Godobeyer]

He changed his rhetoric after being called out. IMO, the very first post and especially the title was not presented in a constructive manner. It's a very sensitive nature to discuss and will incite responses from various angles. No one is going to disagree that the riots were wrong. But solely pointing the finger at the rioters and then further discussing the culture, history of the perceived rioters in this case is very unfair and very biased. It does not address all the issues at hand.

I was wrong too because I discussed the hip hop and rap culture in my earlier threads.

Godobeyer, do you know why the people are rioting?

indeed it's sensitive subject

I am not sure if he change his opinion , but i guess he discuss over reaction and voilence .

I am don't agree with generalize ,but as i understand from him , he did not mean it . so as i understand the title is always used to make the thread more attractive.

cause i Muslim:
if some said " Muslims stop embrassing your self by fighting your selfs " i will accept that by open mind .

for your question about rioting cause :
as i know because black boy die in police station by white cops ?

 

[McBell]

You know me, starting fights by asking a question. I was going through my little black book of people to pick fights with and Saint Frakenstein's name was the first to pop up.

As if...
You twisted what was said then asked a question based on your twisted version.
That is nothing more than a sad attempt at starting a fight.

 

[suncowiam]

indeed it's sensitive subject

I am not sure if he change his opinion , but i guess he discuss over reaction and voilence .

I am don't agree with generalize ,but as i understand from him , he did not mean it . so as i understand the title is always used to make the thread more attractive.

cause i Muslim:
if some said " Muslims stop embrassing your self by fighting your selfs " i will accept that by open mind .

for your question about rioting cause :
as i know because black boy die in police station by white cops ?

Well, I understand he was emotionally bursting which probably deceived his sincerity and integrity to the subject. Does that give him an excuse to be insensitive to the subject? Personally, I never mentioned of him being a racist but this thread as its constructed, initially, was very racist.

Yes, a black person died when he was not armed. He died of severe spinal damage on top of that. If you read this thread, it barely ever mentions that nor discusses the ethics of the police action, culture, and recent discriminatory history towards african americans.

 

[Duraza]

If he was more of a radical and excusing violence, then he's not really what the black community needs now, no.

Good. Now tell me, what then does the Black community need now? Because by your estimation it has never existed before.

MLK was always a radical (even flirted with Marxism). He was only perceived as moderate when people compared him to Malcolm X who would go as far as promoting violence. And to be clear, Martin never said violence was okay. As a deontologist he was strictly against rioting. However, he did call it a lesser evil than structural violence.

Nelson Mandela was a terrorist. Lets not forget when he used to yell "Kill the White Man" in song. He actively used violence and even in his more peaceful days as president he never once condemned it. He always said he admired MLK, but thought that vicious systems like apartheid required violent response.

I doubt you'd agree with Malcolm X or anyone in his lineage of thought.

The Black leaders of Africa (i.e. the first Black presidents across African nations) were Socialists and Communists, which you obviously perceive as wrong. They also often used violence.

Even Obama is often labeled a socialist. Whether that is right or wrong, some of his policies are of a more socialist than capitalist nature. Oh, and lets not forget, Obama uses plenty of violence to solve problems. Whether or not it's a different context, Obama uses plenty of violence/drone strikes to fix issues. If you are deontologically opposed to ever using violence, then he isn't much different.

Du Bois, Fanon, etc. were thinkers. They weren't exactly leaders of political movements. And regardless, they all in some way fall prey to something you disagree with (they were largely structuralist thinkers).

Even some of our emerging political voices of the civil rights era would be wrong. James Forman, for all the good he did with grassroots movements, famously said, "If we can't sit at the table of democracy we'll knock the ****ing legs off!" That was right after King paused the march on Selma and it was Forman's willingness to incite riot that helped push President Johnson to sign the Voting Rights Act.

So what are you looking for? Someone who is nonviolent, anti-structuralist, and basically disagrees with a majority of the leaders in Black history? Because those attributes don't seem to have ever helped in forwarding the Black cause of equality.

 

[McBell]

Ah silly me. Carry on then with the black people bashing.

Again looking for fight.
Sad that you are not very good at it.

 

[dawny0826]

So there was riots and looting in Baltimore during the protests of Freddie Gray's death in police custody on Saturday night:

http://www.nytimes.com/2015/04/26/us/baltimore-crowd-swells-in-protest-of-freddie-grays-death.html
Rioting In Baltimore While 'Nerd Prom' Rages 40 Miles Away | The Daily Caller
MASS RIOTING IN BALTIMORE – Far Left Protesters Loot, Chuck Rocks at Police, Smash Windows (VIDEO) | The Gateway Pundit

The rioting and flash mobs are out of hand. Black people are just making themselves look bad by acting like savages. That's not how black people during the Civil Rights era strived for a recognition of their dignity and won their rights. MLK and his followers didn't go around rioting and looting. No wonder why so many older black people are ashamed of younger blacks. It's pathetic. Stop acting like hoodlums and thugs and taking your cues from Far-Leftist agitators who don't give two ****s about you and are only using you as a pawn.

Despicable. .

In Baltimore, unlike Ferguson, many within the African American Community are speaking out against the senseless rioting.

There is no justification for vandalism and violence. Neither furthers the actual cause, which is the pursuit of change. Police brutality and undue force is the heart of the issue. Senseless criminal activity is another significant concern.

 

[dust1n]

The rioting and flash mobs are out of hand. Black people are just making themselves look bad by acting like savages. That's not how black people during the Civil Rights era strived for a recognition of their dignity and won their rights. MLK and his followers didn't go around rioting and looting. No wonder why so many older black people are ashamed of younger blacks. It's pathetic. Stop acting like hoodlums and thugs and taking your cues from Far-Leftist agitators who don't give two ****s about you and are only using you as a pawn.

Despicable. .

Easily the most insulting thing I've encountered all week.

 

[Mister_T]

As if...
You twisted what was said then asked a question based on your twisted version.
That is nothing more than a sad attempt at starting a fight.

Mestemia, the only person twisting things is you. I questioned the double-standard presented in the title.The reason "black people are embarrassing themselves" is due to police violence. Do you need someone to draw you a colored diagram with pictures to show you the correlation or are you just being intentionally obtuse?

Again looking for fight.
Sad that you are not very good at it.

The only person looking for a fight is you. I asked a question, which is a function having this forum in the first place. If that bothers you (which is does apparently), you're free to go enlighten yourself with something that requires less reading comprehension and is more your speed.

Have a nice day.

 

[McBell]

I wonder, is it only the ones looking to be "offended" who think that the OP was talking about every single black person?