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Book of Mormon

idea

Question Everything
You don’t think marriage is central? You think you can get to the celestial kingdom without a spouse? You think the priesthood is the only ruling force out there? You think motherhood holds no power? You think if it is not in the lesson manuals then we should not know it? Tell me, is everything in the temples in the lesson manuals? Is ther a lesson manual explaining all of the symbolism in the temple? To me, denying Heavenly Mothe, Her existence, and Her importance is on the same level as denying Heavenly Father. You clearly do not understand what marriage is all about. You clearly do not understand a lot of things.

13 And now abideth faith (in God), hope (in Jesus through atonement), and charity, these three; but the greatest of these is charity.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians13:13)

2 And though I have the gift of prophecy, and understand all mysteries, and all knowledge; and though I have all faith, so that I could remove mountains, and have not charity, I am nothing.
3 And though I bestow all my goods to feed the poor, and though I give my body to be burned, and have not charity, it profiteth me nothing.
4Charity suffereth long, and is kind; charity envieth not; charity vaunteth not itself, is not puffed up,
5 Doth not behave itself unseemly, seeketh not her own, is not easily provoked, thinketh no evil;
6 Rejoiceth not in iniquity, but rejoiceth in the truth;
7 Beareth all things, believeth all things, hopeth all things, endureth all things.
8 Charity never afaileth: but whether there be prophecies, they shall fail; whether there be tongues, they shall cease; whether there be knowledge, it shall vanish away.
9 For we know in part, and we prophesy in part.
10 But when that which is perfect is come, then that which is in part shall be done away.
11 When I was a child, I spake as a child, I understood as a child, I thought as a child: but when I became a man, I put away childish things.
12 For now we see through a glass, bdarkly; but then face to face: now I know in part; but then shall I know even as also I am known.
(New Testament | 1 Corinthians13:2 - 12)


7 The fear of the LORD is the beginning of knowledge: but fools despise Wisdom and instruction.
8 My son, hear the instruction of thy Father, and forsake not the law of thy Mother:
9 For They shall be an ornament of grace unto thy head, and chains about thy neck.
(Old Testament | Proverbs1:7 - 9)

13Happy is the man that findeth wisdom, and the man that getteth understanding.
14 For the merchandise of it is better than the merchandise of silver, and the gain thereof than fine gold.
15 She is more precious than rubies: and all the things thou canst desire are not to be compared unto her.
16 Length of days is in her right hand; and in her left hand riches and honour.
17 Her ways are ways of pleasantness, and all her paths are peace.
18 She is a tree of life to them that lay hold upon her: and happy is every one that retaineth her.
(Old Testament | Proverbs3:13 - 18)


Go read the rest of Proverbs.

Go to LDS.org and do a search for "Heavenly Parents".

 
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idea

Question Everything
Wait. In Mormonism you're not allowed in heaven unless you're married? That's quite creepy and kooky.

The entire point of heaven is to learn how to love. If you are unable/unwilling to devote yourself to another human being, heaven is not a place you would be comfortable in.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
The entire point of heaven is to learn how to love. If you are unable/unwilling to devote yourself to another human being, heaven is not a place you would be comfortable in.

Love and devotion to others doesn't require archaic rituals. So are you saying some young bachelor who dies prematurely in an auto accident before he could find someone he knew, loved and trusted enough to be committed to will go to hell? I dunno, seems pretty wacky. What if someone due to medical reasons was impotent, sterile and asexual. Would he be condemned to hell due to his inability to form intimate relationships?
 
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Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
Love and devotion to others doesn't require archaic rituals. So are you saying some young bachelor who dies prematurely in an auto accident before he could find someone he knew, loved and trusted enough to be committed to will go to hell? I dunno, seems pretty wacky. What if someone due to medical reasons was impotent, sterile and asexual. Would he be condemned to hell due to his inability to form intimate relationships?

Remember in mormonism there are three levels of heaven, he is only referring to the celestial kingdom (the highest). Though I have not heard that you have to be married to get into the celestial kingdom as what about people who have been through the temple and have been sealed to their parents?
 

idea

Question Everything
To obtain the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, a man must enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, D&C 131:1–4.
(Guide to the Scriptures | M Marriage, Marry.:New and everlasting covenant of marriage)

PS - This life is not the only place in which you can be married.... although the sooner you find the joys in this, the sooner you can know heaven on earth :)
 

Truth_Faith13

Well-Known Member
To obtain the highest degree of the celestial kingdom, a man must enter into the new and everlasting covenant of marriage, D&C 131:1–4.
(Guide to the Scriptures | MMarriage, Marry.:New and everlasting covenant of marriage)

PS - This life is not the only place in which you can be married.... although the sooner you find the joys in this, the sooner you can know heaven on earth :)

Well thats just one more thing to add to my list of what i dont like about mormonism! I didnt think it could get any longer! :thud:
 

idea

Question Everything
There are plenty of loveless marriages, and plenty of marriageless love.

I agree - the problem is not the marriage, it is the lack of love. You have to learn how to love, how to be selfless, etc... Lose yourself to find yourself. If you cannot let go of yourself, you can never experience the true reality that surounds you.
 

Father Heathen

Veteran Member
I agree - the problem is not the marriage, it is the lack of love. You have to learn how to love, how to be selfless, etc... Lose yourself to find yourself. If you cannot let go of yourself, you can never experience the true reality that surounds you.

But how/why is some ritual a necessity in order to experience and express love and devotion since it's all in the heart, mind and soul, anyway (figuratively speaking)?
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
I agree - the problem is not the marriage, it is the lack of love. You have to learn how to love, how to be selfless, etc... Lose yourself to find yourself. If you cannot let go of yourself, you can never experience the true reality that surounds you.
So which is closer to achieving what the "celestial kingdom" represents: a loveless marriage between a man and a woman or a selfless love shared between two women who have let go of themselves to find the beauty in the world?
 

idea

Question Everything
But how/why is some ritual a necessity in order to experience and express love and devotion since it's all in the heart, mind and soul, anyway (figuratively speaking)?

If someone tells you they love you, but they never do anything for you, they never bring you food when you are sick, they never wish you a happy birthday, they never pick you up onthe side of the road when your car breaks down... if they say "it is all in my heart/mind/soul - do they really love you?

If they refuse to commit to you, refuse to make a vow to you, refuse to share all that they own with you... is that really devotion?

People want the devotion without the sacrifice... You know the worth of something by how much you have to give up to get it...
 
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idea

Question Everything
doppelgänger;1357127 said:
So which is closer to achieving what the "celestial kingdom" represents: a loveless marriage between a man and a woman or a selfless love shared between two women who have let go of themselves to find the beauty in the world?

A loveless marriage will not make it to heaven. Part of heaven is the state of mind, the bliss of it comes from knowing how to love and be loved.

Please listen...
http://byubmp3.byu.edu/BYUForum/2008/10/BYUForum20081028-2345.mp3
 
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painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
Women can't in without a man to guide her... Men need to be able to lead.

And the only marriage that counts is one done in the Mormon Temple.

wa:do
 

doppelganger

Through the Looking Glass
A loveless marriage will not make it to heaven. Part of heaven is the state of mind, the bliss of it comes from knowing how to love and be loved.

I agree. So is condemning people for loving more like being "blissful" or less like being "blissful"?

What is at that audio link?
 

painted wolf

Grey Muzzle
They aren't opposed... you just don't get into the highest level of heaven.
You can get in level two and hang out with Jesus... but not the big cheese himself.

wa:do
 

idea

Question Everything
Women can't in without a man to guide her... Men need to be able to lead.

And the only marriage that counts is one done in the Mormon Temple.

wa:do

men can't get in without a woman.

till death do you part - that is sad isn't it?
 
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