Brexit is Costing Britain 500 Million Pounds per Week and Growing

[exchemist]

I find it disturbing that some anti-Brexit people seem actually to hope for the UK to collapse into strife rather than accept the will of the people.

The Remoaners started picking fights on the majority of their country as soon as they lost the democratic vote.

The Remainers have indeed starting arguing against the Leavers. But that's just politics. After all, when we elect a Labour government, the conservative-inclined people don't stop arguing for conservative politics, or vice versa. People argue for the politics they think is best for the country. The "will of the people is not settled" at 52:48. It is changing all the time, as the gammons die off and more young people reach the age of 18. So this issue will stay live for a generation at least.

And I repeat, a no deal Brexit is very likely to break up the Union, as the Scots and N Irish did not vote to leave.

 

[Notanumber]

The Remainers have indeed starting arguing against the Leavers. But that's just politics. After all, when we elect a Labour government, the conservative-inclined people don't stop arguing for conservative politics, or vice versa. People argue for the politics they think is best for the country. The "will of the people is not settled" at 52:48. It is changing all the time, as the gammons die off and more young people reach the age of 18. So this issue will stay live for a generation at least.

And I repeat, a no deal Brexit is very likely to break up the Union, as the Scots and N Irish did not vote to leave.

The Scots would be ill advised to leave their English benefactor and hitch their wagon to the dwindling EU star.

I made a mistake by saying, “Look at what is happening with France and Italy” when I should have said, “Look at what is happening with Macron and Italy”.

 

[exchemist]

The Scots would be ill advised to leave their English benefactor and hitch their wagon to the dwindling EU star.

But they will still probably do it, and so will Northern Ireland, in the event of a no deal exit.

 

[Altfish]

But they will still probably do it, and so will Northern Ireland, in the event of a no deal exit.

...and who could blame them. I have an opportunity of moving to Scotland, if they leave the UK I'll be up their in a flash.

 

[exchemist]

...and who could blame them. I have an opportunity of moving to Scotland, if they leave the UK I'll be up their in a flash.

I like the country but not the weather. However as I was born in Edinburgh I'm hoping that I could get a Scottish passport if they leave the Union, as an insurance policy.

Like you perhaps, I've given up on England, rather. We seem to be sinking back into provincial stupidity and xenophobia: looking for people to hate instead of love. I so much enjoyed the feeling that the whole of Europe was our joint patrimony. But then, I worked for a multinational, was used to dealing with people from all over the world and had a French wife. The future seems to be one of living on spam and baked beans - and hurling insults across the channel to take our minds off our chronic constipation.

 

[LuisDantas]

The Scots would be ill advised to leave their English benefactor and hitch their wagon to the dwindling EU star.

You sure have an exalted perception of England when compared to most anyone else.

 

[exchemist]

You sure have an exalted perception of England when compared to most anyone else.

This is universal among Leavers. Commonly they also have little experience of people from other countries. Same with Trump voters.

 

[LuisDantas]

I would not mind it so much if I saw some sort of factual support for it.

But I do not.

It is just a narrative that apparently expects to be self-supporting, with no love for facts. Somehow we are to take for granted that the EU is sinking and/or "evil", while England has some sort of great destiny ahead if "unshackled" (despite actually having a lot more freedom and power with the EU than outside it).

And nevertheless, stirs of separation from the UK that are a direct result of Brexit talk are called unwise by the very same people...

It really looks very dogmatic.


There may be some projection operating here as well. I wonder how Scottish and Irish feel about the idea of England being its benefactor, given the often bloody story of their relationships with that land.

 

[exchemist]

More here on the chance of N Ireland leaving the union in the event of no deal: 'Real chance' of Irish unity poll if no deal

 

[exchemist]

I would not mind it so much if I saw some sort of factual support for it.

But I do not.

It is just a narrative that apparently expects to be self-supporting, with no love for facts. Somehow we are to take for granted that the EU is sinking and/or "evil", while England has some sort of great destiny ahead if "unshackled" (despite actually having a lot more freedom and power with the EU than outside it).

And nevertheless, stirs of separation from the UK that are a direct result of Brexit talk are called unwise by the very same people...

It really looks very dogmatic.


There may be some projection operating here as well. I wonder how Scottish and Irish feel about the idea of England being its benefactor, given the often bloody story of their relationships with that land.

Well it is a fact that Scotland has for many years been a net beneficiary financially.

But under a no deal Brexit the resulting damage to exports from lack of trade agreements and common product standards could tilt the balance of public opinion. Businesses will go bust and tax receipts will go down. Most likely there will be a recession. It will take years to agree new trade deals and the eventual terms will be inferior to those we currently enjoy, which have been negotiated with the purchasing power of a market of 500m people, instead of one with a tenth of that.

This will all quite rightly be blamed on the English.

 

[Notanumber]

You sure have an exalted perception of England when compared to most anyone else.

I used to love my country and I am doing my best to continue to do so while others around seem to want to drag its name through the mud.

I am sorry for you if you do not like your country.

 

[Notanumber]

I would not mind it so much if I saw some sort of factual support for it.

But I do not.

It is just a narrative that apparently expects to be self-supporting, with no love for facts. Somehow we are to take for granted that the EU is sinking and/or "evil", while England has some sort of great destiny ahead if "unshackled" (despite actually having a lot more freedom and power with the EU than outside it).

And nevertheless, stirs of separation from the UK that are a direct result of Brexit talk are called unwise by the very same people...

It really looks very dogmatic.


There may be some projection operating here as well. I wonder how Scottish and Irish feel about the idea of England being its benefactor, given the often bloody story of their relationships with that land.

The Scots would do well not to look a gift horse in the mouth. The EU would not treat them so generously.

 

[Altfish]

I see that the contract with the dodgy shipping company has been scrapped.

Government cancels Brexit ferry contract with no-ship firm

There should now be questions asked about why it was placed in the first place.

 

[exchemist]

I see that the contract with the dodgy shipping company has been scrapped.

Government cancels Brexit ferry contract with no-ship firm

There should now be questions asked about why it was placed in the first place.

Yeah another Grayling masterstroke. He has also got himself banned from the port of Calais after annoying the most senior official there.

I see in this morning's FT that the attempt get a trade with Japan ready for no deal on 30th March has now failed. Japan says it will be WTO rules if we fail to get an agreed transition with the EU. This is because they can drive a harder bargain with the UK on its own than with the EU, so refuse to roll over the existing EU trade deal terms to the UK after Brexit day.

It's called "Global Britain", apparently.

 

[Notanumber]

I see that the contract with the dodgy shipping company has been scrapped.

Government cancels Brexit ferry contract with no-ship firm

There should now be questions asked about why it was placed in the first place.

What do you expect from a Remainer government?

 

[LuisDantas]

I used to love my country and I am doing my best to continue to do so while others around seem to want to drag its name through the mud.

I am sorry for you if you do not like your country.

Don't be. I have long realized that countries are nothing more than abstractions. They are owed no inherent love, because they do not actually mean anything. They are just shorthand for the communities that live in the territory.

 

[LuisDantas]

The Scots would do well not to look a gift horse in the mouth. The EU would not treat them so generously.

That sounds extremely unlikely.

Scotland has been reluctant enough to remain in the (Kingdom) Union as it is. And it could certainly benefit from distancting itself from Leaver hubris.

 

[Notanumber]

Don't be. I have long realized that countries are nothing more than abstractions. They are owed no inherent love, because they do not actually mean anything. They are just shorthand for the communities that live in the territory.

That sounds very depressing to me but I respect your point of view.

 

[Notanumber]

That sounds extremely unlikely.

Scotland has been reluctant enough to remain in the (Kingdom) Union as it is. And it could certainly benefit from distancting itself from Leaver hubris.

If you say so, but I wonder how they would cope without the English taxpayer.

 

[Altfish]

If you say so, but I wonder how they would cope without the English taxpayer.

Fine.
They wouldn't have a huge defense budget wasting money on nuclear nonsense; they would cut their cloth to suit, introduce a tourist tax. When they get back in the EU they will have great trading opportunities - the motor industry will be interested in moving their. IT is already big in Dundee.

They'll be fine.