I debated making this thread. I think it will go badly but I've become tired enough of some accusations thrown around on RF about Brexit and Brexiteers.
This is the idea that we voted because of a campaign; because of Farage, or Boris Johnson, or because we couldn't stand the sight of Guy Verhofstadt. While the last one might be half true, these aren't generally why anyone I know (in Northern England) voted for Brexit. We voted because we'd always been of the mindset that we wanted to disunite from the EU. I'd been raised with the idea since before the idea of Britain leaving was even seriously floated. I'd since evaluated my views on that and made up my own mind based on other factors, but none, or almost none, of those factors were Brexit 2016 related.
I voted for Labour when Corbyn was in, even after voting Brexit I didn't vote for May's government.
My Brexit voting family mostly voted Labour, too.
We didn't care for bus campaigns or vapid slogans. These aren't why we voted. As far as we were concerned, long before 2016 we'd needed no more reason to want to leave the EU.
Blaming us for the current government is unfair and uninformed. Many Brexiteers are disenfranchised Labour voters who felt let down by Champagne Socialism. Social right-wingers who find no room now in either party.
But the bottom line is, even if there were no Brexit campaign at all, everyone I know who voted for Brexit would still have voted for it and voted Labour at the same time.
This is not a simple issue.
For one, I'm glad you made the thread. I agree it probably won't go well for you, assuming by that you mean you'll get pushback, etc. But having read through most of the thread, I think there is also some honest discussion happening, and it has helped me learn a little more about the motivations from your point of view.
I might miss the mark here, since my upbringing and life are different to yours, and the lessons I have learnt may not apply to you. Who the heck knows trying to work this stuff out over the internet? But I'll throw them up here. You took a risk with the OP, thinking you might get some negative feedback or misunderstanding. I'll do the same now, I guess...lol
I grew up working class. Suburban, rather than rural, but some of what you say resonates with the politics of my family when I was growing up. My Grandad was English (from the midlands) and was a soldier. Dad was a union member (tradesman working in a factory), mum was a stay at home mum until my sister and I went to secondary school. She went back to work as a teacher's aide at that point, and ended up working for the trade union that included non-teaching staff at schools, cleaners, etc. Dad was racist, in an everyday kinda way, although he was fine with immigrants he knew. Mum was too polite to be racist in any way I saw when I was young, although either she's drifted in that direction over the years, or I'm better at picking up subtle cues these days.
In any case, we were a Labour family. There was never any question who they were voting for. The working class were seen as the real workers, and the main issue my parents had with Labour policy would have been that they'd prefer them to be harder on security and policing issues, etc. Basically, they were the type of socially conservative labour-voters I suspect are common in your area too.
By the time I was 15, my Dad and I were butting heads about a lot of things. Not politics, incidentally. Without false modesty, I was better educated than he was, and smarter than he was. By the time I was 19 or 20 I think I was also more worldly than he was in many ways. By 25, in most ways. That's not to denigrate him, or my mum. They did the best for me they knew, most of the time. Not many people are lucky enough to have parents who honestly try to do the best they can. Sometimes that was pretty severely flawed and unhelpful. I had to effectively 'break up' with them (I moved overseas for a while) so we could re-invent our relationship.
Why is all this relevant? Kinda two things I thought of when reading your posts through this thread;
1) My parents, in their retirement, have moved to a rural town of a bit under 8000 people. It's not hillbilly country or anything, but all of a sudden they are staunch supporters of the National Party (which is traditionally a Rural party, and long term coalition partners with the Liberal Party, which is more the Conservative Party here). It's not so much that they've changed allegiances that I find strange (although because of how they vote, it's like a Man U fan turning up in powder blue, but whatever...) It's more like their voting past doesn't exist. My mum was denigrating unions in her own polite fashion, and seemed almost confused when I made a joke about her time working for one. However they justified their voting to themselves, and to me, it's pretty clear that it had almost no basis in analyzing issues, or assessing likely impacts. Instead, they put their trust in strong local voices, had it reinforced at the local pub/sports club/shopping centre, and cast their vote.
2) I had to sort the wheat from the chaff with a lot of what my working class upbringing gave me. Personal responsibility? A strong work ethic? I'll keep those. The thought that change was bad? That authority shouldn't be challenged? That I should conform to those around me. Hmm...not so much. (The authority thing is truly interesting, given that they both advocated strongly for unionism, but perhaps a separate thread. Still, I think it's a common working class dichotomy). It took me a little while to challenge their political views, though. I suspect it's because I lived in a Labour-voting area, was a Uni student, then a teacher, and whilst I was more progressive socially, I was pretty economically conservative, so sticking to the centre-left made sense. That is still my natural lean, I guess. Ultimately, what I realised is that I had to TRULY become an independent voter. I couldn't conform just because that's how I was raised. And I couldn't be a reactionary, and vote some other way. So I decided I had to attack the issues on merit, and vote whichever way that lead me. It lead me to some mistakes, honestly, but it also served me well in the long run. As I grew, my ability to judge the issues at hand did too. The thought, now (as a 47 year old) that I would vote because that's how the people around me would vote (whether my parents, my friends, my drinking buddies, or whomever else) is kinda laughable. The arguments I generally hear from people about issues are almost a parody, in terms of their lack of depth. Bad as that can be amongst the oat-milk latte sipping crowd (as someone in this thread tried to frame urban liberals) it was even more ridiculous in my working class roots. There are people around who are worth discussing issues with, and where I have lost access to them, I've felt the loss keenly. But it's not common, nor do I have the least desire to submit to group think.
I guess my point, long-winded as I have been in reaching it, is that what's done is done. You cast your vote, you live with the outcome of the election. But we've talked, and you've posted enough here for me to know you're smart. And I know you don't subscribe to the same thoughts and patterns as everyone around you. My advice would be to also not conform with your voting. Either educate yourself on the issues to a level you are satisfactory with, or don't vote.
