I know and they need to be given power to enforce the international laws.
Regards Tony
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Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
Regards Tony
CG Didymus
Veteran Member
Oh good, that eliminates one problem. Billions of people are gonna die... Great plan.
But after this great tribulation, people will still be able to interact globally to establish this World Tribunal?
But what's interesting... That the Baha'is will have already predicted this grand upheaval that decimates the people of the world. Then the World Tribunal gets established. Which is not only predicted in the Baha'i writings, but the blueprint on how to put together this Tribunal is in the Baha'i peace plan, and still... the people of the world still reject the Baha'i Faith?
Only after this Tribunal is shown to be lacking, do people finally realize... What they need is to put the teachings of the Baha'i Faith into effect.
Great things like abolishing drugs and alcohol. God's people don't need drugs and alcohol. Good riddance. Get rid of them.
Then getting help for those afflicted with the disease of homosexuality. Yes, getting them healed of that unnatural affliction.
Fining those that practice adultery. And if they do it again? Double the fine. Pretty soon they won't have any money left to go fooling around.
And then getting rid of thieves by giving them three chances. After that... Tattoo them on the forehead and kick them out of town. That should put a stop to their thievery.
Now, who ever is left can live in the Most Great Peace talked about in the Baha'i writings. Everybody living as one, in peace, under one common faith. The true religion of God. Sounds too good to be true.
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Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Leave it to the Catholics, as the Protestants are still waiting for Jesus to return and wave His magic wand.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
You can offer that but can you cite it from the authoritative Writings of the Baha'i Faith?
I don't care about Pilgrim's notes, those carry no authority.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
That is not the Baha'i plan, that is the Christian plan.
Here is a 1917 document.
Pope Benedict Issues a Peace Plan: August 1, 1917
This text comes from our book, Light to the Nations II: The Making of the Modern World.Though not one of the warring powers, Pope Benedict XV had received a copy of the peace note Kaiser Wilhelm had sent to the Allies in December 1916. Despite its haughty tone, and the fact that the Allied...
www.catholictextbookproject.com
Regards Tony
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
This OP came about as this topic was raised in other threads. About building bridges between faiths and peoples, it was suggested the Baha'i approach was not conducive to building bridges.
I would suggest that to build bridges one first have a plan, and this is the level that humanity is currently at, the bridges are not able to be built without plans. Currently the Baha'i are putting forward a concept plan. The plan has to be embraced as the projects drawing, and then much more planing will be required before the bridge building process can start.
The concept plan for the peace process was offered by the Baha'i to the entire world in 1986. It was the 1985 "The Promise of World Peace" message given by the Baha'i Universal House of Justice.
The introductory passage is as follows.
October 1985
To the Peoples of the World:
"The Great Peace towards which people of good will throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet—in the words of one great thinker, “the planetization of mankind”...."
This was followed by a frank statement, that well frankly, it has happened;
"... Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible..."
The document contains much advice that has been given to us before the first world war, it asks humanity to start the bridge building process, by embracing the concept plan given to them in 1985. From that concept plan, the architecture and drafting of the final plan can be realised.
The document contains visions such as the following summary that is my personal summary of some aspects of what the bridge foundations will be built upon.
The unity of humanity will require the unity of Nations and this will require the setting of National boundaries. These boundaries will be enforced by an international federation of Nations, bound in international law, and enforced by them with an international peace keeping army.
The Nations will all disarm simultaneously, apart for the required weapons to maintain internal police forces. There will be no weapons of mass destruction.
Each Nation will have its own democratically elected Government and the people will elect their representatives for that will represent the Nation on the world federational parliament. Minority Nations will have greater representation.
This is the next stage humanity must acheive, the building of the "Lesser Peace".
This is in the General Debate section to allow full participation.
Does anyone else have a concept plan they would like to submit to help build bridges to the unity of humanity?
Is there anything in the concept plan, that in you opinion, will not work?
View attachment 97406
Regards Tony
I was asked about a decade ago to participate in the creation of a manifesto for a one world government, which I declined to do for over a year...maybe two. I ended up simply making a suggestion, based on a very simple premise. "How about we live and let live" was the exact suggestion I gave, and the full extent of my participation in the creation of the manifesto itself. Bridges equate to access, which then equates to expected entrance into unknown territories, which then poses some very real issues and concerns for all involved. I have a difficult time enough maintaining my freedom to smoke a cigarette apart from hostility and ridicule. Here, we're speaking about issues far more personal and intimate, which would require much greater security, which then equates to a dangerous position for the unknowing or unsuspecting. The security force would involve a theocracy as opposed to a more secular oriented force. This in and of itself poses even more concern. The flip side to theocratic security and/or government would be a secular one, which is no less threatening, given the hostilities involved against those belonging to no religion and vice versa. Freedom would inevitably be limited and submission to religious laws would be necessitated.
The many mansions or the many households and cultures of the world each have specific expectations, and these are rarely accepted as fair anywhere in the world. My idea of an adequate bridge equates to the right to live our lives as we see fit to live them, a "do what you will and harm none" rule of thumb. The devil is always in the details, so I find democracy to be an effective form of governance, when granted enough opportunity to understand the extent of consequence for our choices and how our laws help maintain a healthy order, justly. The issue with the harm none suggestion is in the lack of knowing extent of consequence, so education, participation, and civility is required ... as always. The issue here is abuses of power and willingness to be part of this type of societal structure....as always. In other words, we have a very long road to travel before we ever find a truly adequate and peaceful resolution to our division. Sometimes separation is needed and societal functions specific to each territory individually. I think this is how it will eventually work itself out. It won't happen without our involvement, but to push an initiative like this is like forcing child labor on a 4 year old. They say, I mean I say patience and chipping away at the mountain one pebble at a time might be quicker and more effective than pushing such an initiative on everyone, particularly on an untrusting and fearful world of hostility.
Tony, one idea is to find a way to make it normal for everyone to live in various places around the world. Currently people tend to stay in one place, but if we traveled we would all be very different. If you can pull that off you can accelerate many aspects of your plan. Also though it may sound difficult it is far easier than many of the individual steps.
Suppose a person anticipates moving to 3 countries over the next 20 years. They will be interested in the language and culture.
"The Promissed Day is Come" contains a lot of this information
The Promised Day Is Come | Bahá’í Reference Library
A letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of the West, dated 28 March 1941.
Search Cities in this document. Shoghi Effendi quotes Baha'u'llah often.
Regards Tony
cataway
Well-Known Member
@Trailblazer said:'' Sorry, I do not know the Bible well enough to discuss this intelligently.''
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
"The Promissed Day is Come" contains a lot of this information
The Promised Day Is Come | Bahá’í Reference Library
A letter written by Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of the West, dated 28 March 1941.www.bahai.org
Search Cities in this document. Shoghi Effendi quotes Baha'u'llah often.
Regards Tony
| Friends and fellow-heirs of the Kingdom of Bahá’u’lláh: |
| A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth. Its driving power is remorselessly gaining in range and momentum. Its cleansing force, however much undetected, is increasing with every passing day. Humanity, gripped in the clutches of its devastating power, is smitten by the evidences of its resistless fury. It can neither perceive its origin, nor probe its significance, nor discern its outcome. Bewildered, agonized and helpless, it watches this great and mighty wind of God invading the remotest and fairest regions of the earth, rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants. |
| “The time for the destruction of the world and its people,” Bahá’u’lláh’s prophetic pen has proclaimed, “hath arrived.” “The hour is approaching,” He specifically affirms, “when the most great convulsion will have appeared.” “The promised day is come, the day when tormenting trials will have surged above your heads, and beneath your feet, saying: ‘Taste ye what your hands have wrought!’” “Soon shall the blasts of His chastisement beat upon you, and the dust of hell enshroud you.” And again: “And when the appointed hour is come, there shall suddenly appear that which shall cause the limbs of mankind to quake.” “The day is approaching when its [civilization’s] flame will devour the cities, when the Tongue of Grandeur will proclaim: ‘The Kingdom is God’s, the Almighty, the All-Praised!’” “The day will soon come,” He, referring to the foolish ones of the earth, has written, “whereon they will cry out for help and receive no answer.” “The day is approaching,” He moreover has prophesied, “when the wrathful anger of the Almighty will have taken hold of them. He, verily, is the Omnipotent, the All-Subduing, the Most Powerful. He shall cleanse the earth from the defilement of their corruption, and shall give it for an heritage unto such of His servants as are nigh unto Him.” |
The Promised Day is Come is dated dated 28 March 1941.
He wrote: "A tempest, unprecedented in its violence, unpredictable in its course, catastrophic in its immediate effects, unimaginably glorious in its ultimate consequences, is at present sweeping the face of the earth."
It is obvious that Shoghi Effendi was referring to World War II which spanned the years of 1939-1945.
All these things happened during WW II: "rocking its foundations, deranging its equilibrium, sundering its nations, disrupting the homes of its peoples, wasting its cities, driving into exile its kings, pulling down its bulwarks, uprooting its institutions, dimming its light, and harrowing up the souls of its inhabitants."
“The time for the destruction of the world and its people,” Bahá’u’lláh’s prophetic pen has proclaimed, “hath arrived.” “The hour is approaching,” He specifically affirms, “when the most great convulsion will have appeared.”
Shoghi Effendi says He is quoting Baha'u'llah, but I cannot find either the words destruction or convulsion in Baha'u'llah's writings.
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
Are you that desperate that you are going to keep posting what I said on another thread, which does not pertain in any way with what is being discussed on this thread? By continuing to do that you only make yourself look foolish, but no problem, since I have that post saved in a document so it is a simple copy/paste for me to correct you, again.
@Trailblazer said: Sorry, I do not know the Bible well enough to discuss this intelligently.
When I said that I was responding to THIS.
Hockeycowboy said:
Why did Adam & his descendants - up to 9 generations later - live so long? Because they were genetically closest to Adam’s pre-sin condition of perfection! And gradually, human lifespans shortened.
**The following is off-topic**
And drastically so, after the Flood. You know why? Because the Bible describes ‘waters above the earth’ as existing prior to the Flood; those waters, suspended in the Earth’s atmosphere, acted a? a filter to the Sun’s rays, diluting the potency of the radiation hitting Earth’s surface.
But Jehovah used those waters for part of the Flood, effectively removing it.
This water canopy also would affect C-14 dating, prior to the Flood. And this is what we see.
Whether I know that chapter has nothing to do with whether or not I can interpret OTHER scriptures that I DO KNOW.
#2,195
Jesus is not God
Like you, I see no other harmony. When Jesus was called "Good Teacher" Jesus specifically pointed out to the ruler that only God is good. We can have many teachers, but if only God is our good teacher, what does that tell us about Jesus? "Good in the Supreme sense" ? So who is our good...
www.religiousforums.com
What I said here:
"Leave it to the Catholics, as the Protestants are still waiting for Jesus to return and wave His magic wand." has NOTHING to do with Adam and Eve.
I know the Bible well enough to discuss the Christian expectation of Jesus' return very intelligently. I know it so well it is coming out of my ears.
McBell
Admiral Obvious
you do know that it is against the rules to post a quote of another member in a thread other than the one it originally appeared in, right?
Trailblazer
Veteran Member
I did not know that but thanks for the heads up.
The bigger picture for the universal language, apart from the bounty it assists us in embracing each other as one people on one planet, it will assist with ease of trade, financial transactions and diplomacy. Misunderstandings multiply when language is a barrier.
I agree and see more people will want to travel, millions will eventually undertake extended pilgrimages across many Holy sites.
Regards Tony
I do not see it will be forced by any Nation upon the majority, it may have to be for a minority. The requirement will become a necessity to implement, so one could conclude we forced God's hand upon our own selves.
There is no doubt that true freedom requires our willingness to submit to a code of laws, as unbridled personal liberties leads ultimately to anarchy.
Yes there is a lot to table and discuss, so no better time to start than yesterday.
Regards Tony
There is more written after the 2nd world war, as late as 1957, the year of His passing.
His official writings do reflect pilgrims notes, I personally do not write them off, but take them as personal reflections of what Shoghi Effendi offered.
The key is, the 3rd world conflict was predicted, it may be the final event for this conflict will be as a result that is recorded in pilgrims notes, where Shoghi Effendi did say, no doubt, that the Atom Bomb will be used again.
The Writings talk of the contamination of the northern hemisphere. I would have to make sure that was also outside of the pilgrims notes, but much of it is, just not as graphic a detail as told to the pilgrims.
Regards Tony
Balthazzar
N. Germanic Descent
I do not see it will be forced by any Nation upon the majority, it may have to be for a minority. The requirement will become a necessity to implement, so one could conclude we forced God's hand upon our own selves.
There is no doubt that true freedom requires our willingness to submit to a code of laws, as unbridled personal liberties leads ultimately to anarchy.
Yes there is a lot to table and discuss, so no better time to start than yesterday.
Regards Tony
Reading this statement, I see enforced coercions in smaller territories less able to resist the efforts being implemented as a vehicle to bridge the nations. I don't find this acceptable. Case in point, Ukraine and the ongoing threat to global stability via military movement into other territories. We have Nato, we have the European union, we have the growing support for Russia, we have Israel and Palestine, Iran, Yemen, etc. These conflicts are all initiated via militant action of those who hold a similar concept of establishing power and control. The global threat is real and is expected to increase.
I can understand the mechanics of establishing greater control, but this is anything but ideal and our freedoms will turn into obligations to defend and/or submit to powers able. Unbridled personal liberties is one thing, informed and educated unbridled liberties is another. What you suggest seems more like a dishonest claim to know better than the rest of the world and that we are far too stupid and uneducated to make wise enough decisions to govern ourselves. Instead, you place other religious ideals as superior and it seems the intent is to effort an assault against freedom and self-governance via democratic process of the people, generally speaking. Otherwise, I like the thought of unity and cooperation between nations, but not when it affects our security as citizens and well-being, and our liberties. It sounds nice face value, but the intent suggests far too many injustices to be necessitated for me to be on board with.
The Citadel of Faith contains this.
Citadel of Faith | Bahá’í Reference Library
A collection of messages from Shoghi Effendi to the Bahá’ís of the United States, written between 1947 and 1957.
There are others, but it appears one must search each section. This is after the 2nd world war and mentions the 2 previous conflicts. I put bold at the end that shows that the pilgrim notes contain the same type of message, just remembered in the detail that private talks would include.
".....The multiplication, the diversity and the increasing destructive power of armaments to which both sides, in this world contest, caught in a whirlpool of fear, suspicion and hatred, are rapidly contributing; the outbreak of two successive bloody conflicts, entangling still further the American nation in the affairs of a distracted world, entailing a considerable loss in blood and treasure, swelling the national budget and progressively depreciating the currency of the state; the confusion, the vacillation, the suspicions besetting the European and Asiatic nations in their attitude to the American nation; the overwhelming accretion of strength to the arch enemy of the system championed by the American Union in consequence of the re-alignment of the powers in the Asiatic continent and particularly in the Far East--these have, moreover, contributed their share, in recent years, to the deterioration of a situation which, if not remedied, is bound to involve the American nation in a catastrophe of undreamed-of dimensions and of untold consequences to the social structure, the standard and conception of the American people and government.
No less serious is the stress and strain imposed on the fabric of American society through the fundamental and persistent neglect, by the governed and governors alike, of the supreme, the inescapable and urgent duty--so repeatedly and graphically represented and stressed by `Abdu'l-Bahá in His arraignment of the basic weaknesses in the social fabric of the nation--of remedying, while there is yet time, through a revolutionary change in the concept and attitude of the average white American toward his Negro fellow citizen, a situation which, if allowed to drift, will, in the words of `Abdu'l-Bahá, cause the streets of American cities to run with blood, aggravating thereby the havoc which the fearful weapons of destruction, raining from the air, and amassed by a ruthless, a vigilant, a powerful and inveterate enemy, will wreak upon those same cities..."
There is quite a bit more, sorry working now.
Regards Tony