ppp
Well-Known Member
Do you have a clue as to what any of those practical requirements are? It sure as hell does not seem so.
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Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity
- Thread starter TransmutingSoul
- Start date
ppp
Well-Known Member
It not a discussion, Tony It is just you trying to dominate and pretend that you have any concern or awareness about anything aside form your own ego Lets not pretend that you have anything resembling empathy.
I think perhaps the problem is that the world has too many people. The planet earth just is not equipped to support so many human beings. People like Musk predict a sudden population collapse in global north nations as the increasingly elderly retired and non-productive population (as much as 20% in Japan) pass-on and there are not enough young people to power the economy. At the same time the often uneducated and unskilled population of global south nations especially in Africa continues to increase.
For the first time in modern history, the world’s population is expected to virtually stop growing by the end of this century, due in large part to falling global fertility rates, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the United Nations. By 2100, the world’s population is projected to reach approximately 10.9 billion, with annual growth of less than 0.1% – a steep decline from the current rate. Between 1950 and today, the world’s population grew between 1% and 2% each year, with the number of people rising from 2.5 billion to more than 7.7 billion
Pew Research Statistics
For the first time in modern history, the world’s population is expected to virtually stop growing by the end of this century, due in large part to falling global fertility rates, according to a Pew Research Center analysis of new data from the United Nations. By 2100, the world’s population is projected to reach approximately 10.9 billion, with annual growth of less than 0.1% – a steep decline from the current rate. Between 1950 and today, the world’s population grew between 1% and 2% each year, with the number of people rising from 2.5 billion to more than 7.7 billion
Pew Research Statistics
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So to sum up, the plan goes like this:
1. Settle all international boundary disputes.
2. Empower a "federation of Nations" (is this the UN or a completely new organization?) with the power to enforce those settled boundaries.
3. Get all nations to disarm.
4. Get every nation to become a democracy.
5. Get all nations to participate in that "federation of Nations."
That's a lot.
Could you break down how step 1, say, would be achieved?
I didn't see a plan or practical requirements. I saw goals and barriers to achieving them.
@9-10ths_Penguin summarized in bullet points your stated summary of the goals in your OP, which you called a plan, but which contains no answers:
1. Settle all international boundary disputes.
2. Empower a "federation of Nations" (is this the UN or a completely new organization?) with the power to enforce those settled boundaries.
3. Get all nations to disarm.
4. Get every nation to become a democracy.
5. Get all nations to participate in that "federation of Nations."
And you listed some barriers:
- Racism and discrimination based on race, gender and religious belief
- The inordinate disparity between the rich and the poor
- Unbridled nationalism
- Religious strife
- The inequality between men and women
- The lack of educational opportunity for many around the world
- A fundamental lack of communication between peoples. Adopting an international auxiliary language would go far toward resolving this problem and necessitates the most urgent attention.
It's interesting that only one item on the second list is addressed by the first list, which is at the level of nations and governments (corresponds to "unbridled nationalism"). Even if governments disarm (I assume that means end war; they're not going to disarm their armies, and they'll continue to have police forces) and tolerate and trade with neighbors, you're still left with almost all of that second list, all of which are addressed by humanistic efforts being made today, but not by the Baha'i to my knowledge.
In the States, which is the country I know most about, there is a fight against racism and sexism being waged by the forces defending the environment, democracy, church-state separation and egalitarianism from the authoritarian, religious, and predatory capitalistic influences I named earlier
If you had had an effective plan and had been implementing it all of these years, there ought to be evidence of significant improvements to date because of that - perhaps creating a few democracies or making a major dent in the level of economic disparity in some nation. What actions are the Baha'i taking to preserve democracy in Ukraine or the United States?
In my opinion, what you have here is no more effective than the Pope and his pleas for peace, the gun defenders' "thoughts and prayers," or a preacher or a scripture saying to love everybody. Those things and your "Promise of World Peace" don't make a difference. Nothing changes with any of them. In the meantime, the heavy lifting is being done by others.
I'm not sure why Baha'i affiliation appeals to you other than it seems to make you feel good being affiliated with a peaceful community that talks about bringing unity to the world, but I see no harm there, so go for it. Keep up the peace talk even if it only talk.
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This OP came about as this topic was raised in other threads. About building bridges between faiths and peoples, it was suggested the Baha'i approach was not conducive to building bridges.
I would suggest that to build bridges one first have a plan, and this is the level that humanity is currently at, the bridges are not able to be built without plans. Currently the Baha'i are putting forward a concept plan. The plan has to be embraced as the projects drawing, and then much more planing will be required before the bridge building process can start.
The concept plan for the peace process was offered by the Baha'i to the entire world in 1986. It was the 1985 "The Promise of World Peace" message given by the Baha'i Universal House of Justice.
The introductory passage is as follows.
October 1985
To the Peoples of the World:
"The Great Peace towards which people of good will throughout the centuries have inclined their hearts, of which seers and poets for countless generations have expressed their vision, and for which from age to age the sacred scriptures of mankind have constantly held the promise, is now at long last within the reach of the nations. For the first time in history it is possible for everyone to view the entire planet, with all its myriad diversified peoples, in one perspective. World peace is not only possible but inevitable. It is the next stage in the evolution of this planet—in the words of one great thinker, “the planetization of mankind”...."
This was followed by a frank statement, that well frankly, it has happened;
"... Whether peace is to be reached only after unimaginable horrors precipitated by humanity’s stubborn clinging to old patterns of behaviour, or is to be embraced now by an act of consultative will, is the choice before all who inhabit the earth. At this critical juncture when the intractable problems confronting nations have been fused into one common concern for the whole world, failure to stem the tide of conflict and disorder would be unconscionably irresponsible..."
The document contains much advice that has been given to us before the first world war, it asks humanity to start the bridge building process, by embracing the concept plan given to them in 1985. From that concept plan, the architecture and drafting of the final plan can be realised.
The document contains visions such as the following summary that is my personal summary of some aspects of what the bridge foundations will be built upon.
The unity of humanity will require the unity of Nations and this will require the setting of National boundaries. These boundaries will be enforced by an international federation of Nations, bound in international law, and enforced by them with an international peace keeping army.
The Nations will all disarm simultaneously, apart for the required weapons to maintain internal police forces. There will be no weapons of mass destruction.
Each Nation will have its own democratically elected Government and the people will elect their representatives for that will represent the Nation on the world federational parliament. Minority Nations will have greater representation.
This is the next stage humanity must acheive, the building of the "Lesser Peace".
This is in the General Debate section to allow full participation.
Does anyone else have a concept plan they would like to submit to help build bridges to the unity of humanity?
Is there anything in the concept plan, that in you opinion, will not work?
View attachment 97406
Regards Tony
I think a first step would require tossing out two common imperatives, the need for a universal religion and universal politics.
Demanding everyone else to accept your ideas of truth and or moral justice is not conducive to peace.
I don't know if it is possible that humanity starts to accept that not everyone else in the world has to think like them in order to live amongst each other. I don't have to respect your religious or political views to respect your rights to pursue a happy peaceful existence. As long as you can keep all of that to yourself and not bother me with it.
ppp
Well-Known Member
I think you have struck at the heart of things. Setting aside the lack of a plan, the fundamental notion being advanced by the Baha'i is authoritarian in nature. It's an implicit attempt to substitute one master for another.
Twilight Hue
Twilight, not bright nor dark, good nor bad.
Maybe a better way would be to ask what has been successfully accomplished so far, if any?
That is a lot, but only a pinhead of all that needs to be done, these actions have to be built on other considerations, one being a shift of unbridled nationalism, to acceptance of the oneness of humanity. While people protest about immigration, nationalism will still hinder our progress. Most people do not want to immigrate, they do so as the Nation they live in does not have the same opportunities. Thus addressing the extremes of unbridled wealth and absolute poverty is also required. Many ETC ETC
The United Nations structure would have to change, it will need to be an elected body with elected representatives from all Nations. Minority Nations will be given greater representation.
The most important thing about the plan is that it calls on global consultation to acheive the solutions. It can only be achieved by the willingness of Nations to participate.
Step 1, How this will be achieved will require the body consultation process. My idea of how it could work, could only be tabled, there would be many opinions. One would most logically think that it has to be the people that decide. Such voting must be free and open with no fear of persecution. To reach this stage, unfortunately will only develope for the results of the current conflicts.
The fist step would.most likely require humanity to see we need a world federation that has power over National Sovereignty, the power to enforce the international laws. Laws that were broken that enabled the current conflicts and civil disorders.
Regards Tony
You have mentioned one of the items that will be on the agenda of a world federation of Nations, that is the topic of religion, a new world federation will try to do away with religion, that is already foretold.
It is obvious that world is now a small place and does need global government. So that part of a first step, I see you have incorrectly rejected.
The important thing is it will be elected and represented by all people of all nations. Thus All thr laws will be implemented through consultation of all Nations, so there is no just cause to reject what that elected body will decide upon.
Regards Tony
Appointing a United Narions was a great move.
Not giving it sovereignty to enact the laws was an error.
A better move would be for elected representatives from each Narion to serve on the world federation to enact and enforce global laws.
Regards Tony
@CG Didymus moved from other OP
The key here CG is that is the guidance God has given us, it is the highest standard we can aspire to. No matter how great a man's vision is, they are unable to give humanity a better path.
This is how the Message unfolds, it will be implemented when as Baha'u'llah said and explained by Abdul'baha as follows.
In “The Secret of Divine Civilization” (“The Mysterious Forces of Civilization”), ‘Abdu’l‑Bahá’s outstanding contribution to the future reorganization of the world, we read the following:
“True civilization will unfurl its banner in the midmost heart of the world whenever a certain number of its distinguished and high-minded sovereigns—the shining exemplars of devotion and determination—shall, for the good and happiness of all mankind, arise, with firm resolve and clear vision, to establish the Cause of Universal Peace. They must make the Cause of Peace the object of general consultation, and seek by every means in their power to establish a Union of the nations of the world. They must conclude a binding treaty and establish a covenant, the provisions of which shall be sound, inviolable and definite. They must proclaim it to all the world and obtain for it the sanction of all the human race. This supreme and noble undertaking—the real source of the peace and well-being of all the world—should be regarded as sacred by all that dwell on earth. All the forces of humanity must be mobilized to ensure the stability and permanence of this Most Great Covenant. In this all-embracing Pact the limits and frontiers of each and every nation should be clearly fixed, the principles underlying the relations of governments towards one another definitely laid down, and all international agreements and obligations ascertained. In like manner, the size of the armaments of every government should be strictly limited, for if the preparations for war and the military forces of any nation should be allowed to increase, they will arouse the suspicion of others. The fundamental principle underlying this solemn Pact should be so fixed that if any government later violate any one of its provisions, all the governments on earth should arise to reduce it to utter submission, nay the human race as a whole should resolve, with every power at its disposal, to destroy that government. Should this greatest of all remedies be applied to the sick body of the world, it will assuredly recover from its ills and will remain eternally safe and secure.”
“A few,” He further adds, “unaware of the power latent in human endeavor, consider this matter as highly impracticable, nay even beyond the scope of man’s utmost efforts. Such is not the case, however. On the contrary, thanks to the unfailing grace of God, the loving-kindness of His favored ones, the unrivaled endeavors of wise and capable souls, and the thoughts and ideas of the peerless leaders of this age, nothing whatsoever can be regarded as unattainable. Endeavor, ceaseless endeavor, is required. Nothing short of an indomitable determination can possibly achieve it. Many a cause which past ages have regarded as purely visionary, yet in this day has become most easy and practicable. Why should this most great and lofty Cause—the day-star of the firmament of true civilization and the cause of the glory, the advancement, the well-being and the success of all humanity—be regarded as impossible of achievement? Surely the day will come when its beauteous light shall shed illumination upon the assemblage of man.”
Regards Tony
Secret Chief
Veteran Member
Oh good another bahai proselytising by trojan horse thread.
I never said anything about getting rid of religion. I just said keep it personal.
You want a "world government"?
Fine, just make sure to limit its powers. The one thing that will corrupt people faster than anything is power. The main idea behind the US Constitution is that of limiting the power of the Federal government.
Government imo is a necessary evil. We need it because of the nature of man. However because of the nature of we also must make sure it can never obtain complete control.
The plan always starts with the concepts and an agreed set of parameters.
The plan is only in concept stage as it requires consultation across all nations to cement the details brought up in the cover page.
Internal and equipped police forces is part of the concept required in the plan. The disarmament of Nations is to rid ourselves of weapons of mass destruction and taking away the possibility of any Nation having a stockpile of arms to attempt to conquer another Nation.
The international laws are mostly already in place, but they are not enforced, see this post above
Post 33 in thread 'Building Bridges to the Unity of Humanity'
What we have been given is the imperative requirements for peace and we have been sharing these since the late 1800's. The talks above by Abdul'baha were delivered in America before the Frist World War, he gave 100's of talks on peace, but when he knew he was no being heard, he told the audience that in two years time (1912) that Europe would spark the conflict that would set the world ablaze, he offered we were on the eve of the Battle of Armageddon, that war is still raging, it has really never ceased and seen 2 world conflicts with the 3rd now underway.
Regards Tony
cataway
Well-Known Member
that is what's going to happen. which side will you be on ?
McBell
Unbound
A plan was presented i 1986, right?
My question is how much of said plan has been accomplished since its presentation?
The side of freedom of expression.