Businesses Requiring Vaccine Passports

[Trailblazer]

Who is "FORCING" you to get vaccinated?
I have heard all manner that your SHOULD get it.
But who here has said you have to?
Post numbers if you will.

SZ said: You have not given any reasonable reasons that you should be exempt.
#298 Subduction Zone, Today at 1:21 AM

Exempt: free from an obligation or liability imposed on others
exempt means - Google Search

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No! So wrong. A person does not have to be symptomatic to spread the disease. That is one of the big threats of this disease. One can be asymptomatic for two or three days and be spreading it all of that time.

That is why people have to wear a.mask in public, even if they feel fine. Do you need links on this?

People who are not vaccinated could "feel fine" and still spread the disease.

We don't know who is asymptomatic. That's the point. It's a safe-than-sorry and it should depend on circumstance.

Yes. They could. I never ever said they could not.

I said it depends on circumstance and you cannot spread something you do not have.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Plagues have never been 100% fatal.
There's enuf genetic variation in humans to prevent that.
But this plague is dangerous. And even the survivors
who are "long haulers" have lingering disabilities.
Long haulers: Why some people experience long-term coronavirus symptoms
Long haulers: Why some people experience long-term coronavirus symptoms

You do get my point though, right?

It's not a death sentence. That doesn't mean it is not serious. It just means the severity of having the virus depends on many factors. We had dangerous-much more dangerous-plagues in the past... but I wouldn't consider this a plague, though. Believe me. We wouldn't be just wearing masks if authorities thought it was that serious.... come on now. Now they are talking about the virus coming from the eyes and wearing two masks rather than one. I'm not sure about other countries, but the US isn't make this any easier.

 

[McBell]

SZ said: You have not given any reasonable reasons that you should be exempt.
#298 Subduction Zone, Today at 1:21 AM

Exempt: free from an obligation or liability imposed on others
exempt means - Google Search

Is that the best you have for supporting your claim that he is FORCING you to get vaccinated?

Wow.
You really are grasping at straws.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Wrong. It is a *fact* that you can spread this virus even if you have no symptoms. You can be infected, which means you can spread it and *still* not show symptoms.

That means that if you have *potentially* been exposed, then *I* have a risk interacting with you.
You may not know you have the virus but can still infect others.

Dude. This isn't an emotional conversation (I hope not). I can read. Caps hurt my eyes.

Yes. You can. I don't disagree with you (again)

It depends on circumstance (are you living with people, are you traveling, are you social distancing, how is your health, pre-existing illness, and so forth) Viruses spread, yes... how they affect people depends on the circumstance.

You are literally not at risk unless I have the disease.

You do not know... so it's a justified concern but the emotions may be a bit overstated.

I don't have that fear of "what if/maybe" unless I am in an environment and put myself in a situation that I would be in a high risk of having such. If that be the case, I would have gotten tested.

It depends on circumstance.

Because you can have the virus and not show symptoms. And if you have it, you can still spread it even if you do not have symptoms.

Why is this so difficult to understand?

I understand it.

My opinion isn't going against facts. We're just walking away with different concerns after reading the same information.

Yes, you are. The virus can be spread by someone who shows no symptoms.

Could. But I wouldn't be that afraid as if everyone without the vaccine is a ticking time bomb. The level of risk depends on circumstance.

No one is saying you are wrong. It just depends on the circumstance and you should not judge people who are in situations that they are at less risk than you are or someone else.

And use of masks.

THIS virus is easily transmitted. Many other types of virus are not. It depends on the virus.

Yes. It is easily transmitted. No one says it is not.

This virus spreads primarily by asymptomatic transmission. You may not know you have the virus. You may not be showing symptoms. You may not show symptoms at all. But you can still have it and spread it.

Could be. But the risk is lower than someone in a high population. Those in a high population is lower than those working with COVID loved ones.

It depends on circumstance. You feel you're at high risk-you could be. Not everyone is.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It seems to me you are the one projecting your views and your position onto others. And it seems common, those here who don't want to the vaccine throwing out things like fear, following the crowd, and ignorance. That is, believe me, a reflection of the cultures anti-intellectual and anti-authorith. How can I tell? People would rather take chances with a deadly virus that can also seriously mess their body up, such as causing lung scaring.

It's an observation especially when I'm outside watching people jump from me and going in the street to get away from people. If someone got hit, that wouldn't be a good thing. From these conversations, I'd assume this is why people are jumping in the streets and dodging those who walk by them for two seconds. Though, in person I don't ask them anything since its not my place.

It depends on circumstance. You're blanketing a whole global population as if everyone is at the same risk and will kill people who don't have this vaccine.

I know that in multiple occasions you've said things like questioning if masks work and saying we need more research, despite the research having been done enough in some cases (like masks) its conclusive, it's cased closed. And now you bring these arguments to the vaccine.

We're talking about vaccines.

Masks I don't care for but they're not medical treatments or anything like that. So my opinions don't change that I wear masks. Vaccine is a medical treatment. I will not take medical treatments unless I am comfortable with doing so. Masks are irritating but they won't kill me if I wear them.

Totally bad comparison.

 

[Revoltingest]

You do get my point though, right?

I'm trying.

It's not a death sentence.

For many, it has been.

That doesn't mean it is not serious. It just means the severity of having the virus depends on many factors. We had dangerous-much more dangerous-plagues in the past... but I wouldn't consider this a plague, though. Believe me. We wouldn't be just wearing masks if authorities thought it was that serious.... come on now. Now they are talking about the virus coming from the eyes and wearing two masks rather than one. I'm not sure about other countries, but the US isn't make this any easier.

The danger is what it is...as presented by the statistics of
infection, death, & lingering damage. But the virus is new
in our experience, & with learning comes vacillating about
how to deal with it. This appears less than confidence
inspiring, but doesn't mean we should ignore emerging
consensus on mitigating the problem.

 

[McBell]

What I do not understand is why people are so adamant about justifying their not getting the vaccine.
Your not gong to get it.
Fine.
But why all the continued excuses for not getting it?

It is starting to seem like it is you whom you are trying to convince, not those who have gotten the vaccine.

And all because some businesses are saying you have to have the vaccine in order to be on their property?

Can't wait to hear all the complaining about the airlines when they start requiring it.
God forbid public transportation joins in.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Of course it is fear, fear of catching the virus and possibly dying. Nobody is telling them not to be afraid, we are just pointing it out, so why are they expecting us to be afraid?

Yeah. Stating observations doesn't hurt anyone. If I asked that X person who didn't want to go to the ER because he may catch the virus, he'd probably say he's not afraid but just concerned for his health. If one is concerned for their health, the ER is the first place to go. In other cases, fear is warranted whether one knows they have it or not (if they do or not), but judging others really doesn't help none.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

That is WRONG. People are most contagious just before the onset of symptoms (if they get any). If you kept up, this was known months ago and you'd know this.

These are probabilities. Whether I'm right or wrong about facts, you're still focusing on a risk that is only valid based on circumstance.

I am not disagreeing with you about the nature of the disease, how it spreads, why, and when.

We just take different conclusions and make different decisions based on the same information.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The truth about asymptomatic spread of COVID-19 | UCHealth Today
Excerpted...
“Asymptomatic spread definitely plays a role in community spread,” said Dr. David Beckham, an infectious disease specialist who studies viruses in a lab he runs at the University of Colorado School of Medicine.

Wearing masks helps prevent asymptomatic spread of COVID-19
That means it’s all the more critical for people to follow public health measures that clearly work, chief among them wearing masks, staying far apart from people and washing hands frequently.

“The closer we can get to 100% mask wearing, the quicker we can end this outbreak and get out of the current spike of the disease,” Beckham said.

Who said I disagreed with all of this?

Plus, we're talking about mandates about vaccines not masks. I'd say you have more chance of getting COVID while wearing a mask than you would if you got the vaccine. That doesn't change a person's decision based on the facts they read.

 

[It Aint Necessarily So]

What's all this talk about being forced to take a vaccine or having control over one's body. Nobody says you have to take the vaccine just like nobody says you have to quit smoking, but just as I would only go to nonsmoking restaurants, or if there were smokers, only if they had a nonsmoking section and I could sit there, I also want to patronize only businesses that require proof of vaccination, or, failing that, have "non-COVID" sections.

And if an entire state wants to be noncompliant, like Florida, no problem. Just don't go there if you don't need to and you care about herd immunity in the spaces you occupy. They don't.

Also, I don't really care about claims of rights from people that don't care about other people, especially since they're usually clamoring for rights they don't have. Sure, there are real issues with rights in the States, such as the right to paid equal pay for equal work or the right to vote, but most of these claims of speech rights, gun rights, religious rights and now the right to not be vaccinated or masked are nonsense.

What most of these people mean about their freedom of speech is to be free to express any opinion and not be challenged on it or be banned from a private platform ("You're cancelling me! Free speech! Free speech!").

The ones clamoring for their religious rights generally mean the right to impose their religion on others, since actual religious rights are not being restricted.

The ones clamoring about gun rights also have a false narrative about their rights being restricted (or their guns being confiscated), which they feel means the right to walk the streets and enter private establishments draped in assault rifles, utterly uninterested in how uncomfortable they make others, or perhaps enjoying it. As I said, this stuff gets tiresome, and I for one have no interest in their so-called rights. Incidentally, I've been wondering when somebody will kill one of these people maybe while they are paying for a coffee at Starbucks or checking out at Wal-Mart, reaching for their wallet, and somebody pulling a weapon, killing them, and claiming he saw that the man had a gun, saw him reach for it, and was in fear for his life.

Your right to refuse vaccination is intact, so you can put that false narrative away as well. You have the right to refuse to be vaccinated, and consumers have the right to insist on not being close to people who do.

Maybe if variants start taking down younger Americans as recent reports suggests may happen, they may start getting vaccines and wearing masks to protect themselves. If not for that reason, to be able to go anywhere.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I'm trying.

I don't know any other way to say it. All I can conclude is that either you think I'm ignorant just because we disagree or you're mixing up facts and my opinions.

I keep saying I don't disagree with any of you with the facts. I just made a personal decision not to take this vaccine because my personal circumstance doesn't put me at high risk to consider it.

Anyone saying I'm ignorant, not caring for people, or putting people at risk is a total insult. The only thing I can think of that may sound like an insult I've said is that people do things out of fear-that's just an observation, though. I'd appreciate if you (guys) don't think I'm a "killer" for not agreeing with you on your opinions and decisions.

The danger is what it is...as presented by the statistics of
infection, death, & lingering damage. But the virus is new
in our experience, & with learning comes vacillating about
how to deal with it. This appears less than confidence
inspiring, but doesn't mean we should ignore emerging
consensus on mitigating the problem.

Of course we shouldn't. We do take things into consideration, though, based on circumstance.

 

[Revoltingest]

Who said I disagreed with all of this?

I didn't imply that.

Plus, we're talking about mandates about vaccines not masks. I'd say you have more chance of getting COVID while wearing a mask than you would if you got the vaccine. That doesn't change a person's decision based on the facts they read.

The mandates I addressed are those imposed by businesses.
BTW, I plan to continue social distancing & mask wearing
after I get the shots.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

What I do not understand is why people are so adamant about justifying their not getting the vaccine.
Your not gong to get it.
Fine.
But why all the continued excuses for not getting it?

It is starting to seem like it is you whom you are trying to convince, not those who have gotten the vaccine.

And all because some businesses are saying you have to have the vaccine in order to be on their property?

Can't wait to hear all the complaining about the airlines when they start requiring it.
God forbid public transportation joins in.

You're wrong on all accounts. I keep reading this and I can't find a single fact just assumptions because you guys disagree.

The only personal justification (excuse, if you like) for my not taking it is I don't want to because I'm not in a high risk situation that would warrant it a necessity.

"Seem" isn't a fact. So, I'll say you're incorrect.

No. I just said I disagree with the mandate. I don't remember making this a full discussion about "me."

Now that you bring airlines up, I disagree in the general with enforcing any person to take the vaccine; but, in case of airlines, I understand why given traveling out of the country and so forth. Businesses, no. I strongly disagree with that.

 

[Trailblazer]

Is that the best you have for supporting your claim that he is FORCING you to get vaccinated?

I never claimed that he was forcing me. How could he do that?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

The mandates I addressed are those imposed by businesses.
BTW, I plan to continue social distancing & mask wearing
after I get the shots.

Yeah. I just disagree with mandating taking the vaccine in order to go to these businesses. I know its the owner's personal decision, but I think it would backfire more than the mask protest issue.

As for social distancing and wearing masks after the shots, I don't see anything wrong with that. In my opinion, a bit overboard but, of course, it depends on the circumstance-your environment, who you live with, your job, your morals, and so forth.

Something else I thought of. I'm not against taking the vaccine. I never was.

Maybe people are putting me in other people's politics just because I don't want to take something they feel they need to take. What's up with that.

 

[Revoltingest]

I don't know any other way to say it. All I can conclude is that either you think I'm ignorant just because we disagree or you're mixing up facts and my opinions.

I keep saying I don't disagree with any of you with the facts. I just made a personal decision not to take this vaccine because my personal circumstance doesn't put me at high risk to consider it.

Anyone saying I'm ignorant, not caring for people, or putting people at risk is a total insult. The only thing I can think of that may sound like an insult I've said is that people do things out of fear-that's just an observation, though. I'd appreciate if you (guys) don't think I'm a "killer" for not agreeing with you on your opinions and decisions.



Of course we shouldn't. We do take things into consideration, though, based on circumstance.

I'm confused.
We're just discussing things.
Ignorant?
No, you're not.

I might be having too many simultaneous discussions while
I watch Star Trek, converse with Mrs Revolt, & answer me phone.
This makes me even more obtuse than usual.

 

[Trailblazer]

What I do not understand is why people are so adamant about justifying their not getting the vaccine.
why all the continued excuses for not getting it?

We do not need to justify it to you and we do not need excuses for not getting it. It's our life and our body.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yeah. I just disagree with mandating taking the vaccine in order to go to these businesses. I know its the owner's personal decision, but I think it would backfire more than the mask protest issue.

As for social distancing and wearing masks after the shots, I don't see anything wrong with that. In my opinion, a bit overboard but, of course, it depends on the circumstance-your environment, who you live with, your job, your morals, and so forth.

Something else I thought of. I'm not against taking the vaccine. I never was.

Maybe people are putting me in other people's politics just because I don't want to take something they feel they need to take. What's up with that.

That could be.
But you aren't at all like the loopy anti-vaxers & others I know.