Businesses Requiring Vaccine Passports

[McBell]

It is not the same.

Yes, it is.
At least what I am talking about.
You know the businesses that are requiring it in order to legally be on their property.

In fact, I even flat out included in my statement "(barring the government requiring them)"...

Which renders the rest of your post an irrelevant strawman.

 

[Revoltingest]

Thanks for the info, though I don't see how my post referred to masks. We've had case rises and people who haven't been wearing masks I'm sure are a huge minority. If masks worked even 90%, believe me, it wouldn't just be for COVID. Nothing wrong with mask. No one is saying they don't work. They have their place.

I intended it to show the danger of asymptomatic transmission.

 

[Revoltingest]

Here's something I just briefly looked up
Effectiveness of Cloth Masks for Protection Against Severe Acute Respiratory Syndrome Coronavirus 2

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Cloth masks have been used in healthcare and community settings to protect the wearer from respiratory infections. The use of cloth masks during the coronavirus disease (COVID-19) pandemic is under debate.

The filtration effectiveness of cloth masks is generally lower than that of medical masks and respirators; however, cloth masks may provide some protection if well designed and used correctly.

Multilayer cloth masks, designed to fit around the face and made of water-resistant fabric with a high number of threads and finer weave, may provide reasonable protection.

Until a cloth mask design is proven to be equally effective as a medical or N95 mask, wearing cloth masks should not be mandated for healthcare workers. In community settings, however, cloth masks may be used to prevent community spread of infections by sick or asymptomatically infected persons, and the public should be educated about their correct use.

-

The key points.... cloth masks provide "some" protection and has not been proven to be equally effective as medical and N95 masks... that and wearing a cloth mask should not be mandated for healthcare workers.

It's too much to read the whole thing in one setting, but masks do have their place.

I use N95 masks.
Were I to use a cloth one, it would make
sense to have an inserted N95 filter.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

It is not more difficult to justify.
Why?
Because the exact same reasons for the mask requirements (barring the government requiring them) apply to the vaccine requirements.
Public safety.

Vaccine and masks are totally different. I don't like wearing masks, but I wear them. However, if someone told me to take medication that's not appropriate due to my health and circumstances, I won't take it. They have totally different risk factors. Science may generalize the whole population, but it should stay an individual decision …. in that people are not prevented from doing what they usually do because of their choice.

Again, who is "forcing" you to get vaccinated?
No one.
So why all the "should stay voluntary" talk"?

IT IS VOLUNTARY.

No one is forcing you to get the vaccine.

Not at the expense of being denied entry of businesses without needing vaccination.

What's the word... it's coercion. In other words, it's forcing by saying they can only get X if they do Y. Masks are fine but not anything medical related.

It's when you make someone do something against their will indirectly. For example, if someone needs to, say, pick up Advil for a headache, they'd need to get vaccinated before going in the store (if the case so be). If not, they're out of luck. They are forced to take this medical treatment in order to get things and obtain services they would be permitted otherwise.

A clothing store can do what it wants, unfortunately. A grocery store, on the other hand, shouldn't have that requirement.

 

[McBell]

I use N95 masks.
Were I to use a cloth one, it would make
sense to have an inserted N95 filter.

I use a cloth mask.
Since I am not working in the health care field (which is where the CDC report is about) where I am exposing tons of people to my presence...

At most I am around maybe, on a busy day, 15 people other then the three residing in my home with me.

 

[McBell]

Vaccine and masks are totally different.

NOT when it comes to the rights and justifications of the businesses requiring them for entry.

 

[Revoltingest]

I use a cloth mask.
Since I am not working in the health care field (which is where the CDC report is about) where I am exposing tons of people to my presence...

At most I am around maybe, on a busy day, 15 people other then the three residing in my home with me.

That seems reasonable.
Does it fit well?

 

[McBell]

Not at the expense of being denied entry of businesses without needing vaccination.

What's the word... it's coercion. In other words, it's forcing by saying they can only get X if they do Y. Masks are fine but not anything medical related.

It's when you make someone do something against their will indirectly. For example, if someone needs to, say, pick up Advil for a headache, they'd need to get vaccinated before going in the store (if the case so be). If not, they're out of luck. They are forced to take this medical treatment in order to get things and obtain services they would be permitted otherwise.

A clothing store can do what it wants, unfortunately. A grocery store, on the other hand, shouldn't have that requirement.

Since when do your rights over ride the rights of others?

You have the right to not get vaccinated.
You DO NOT have the right to take away the rights of others because you have not been vaccinated.

 

[McBell]

That seems reasonable.
Does it fit well?

Yes.
My wife made it for me.
Taking measurements of my face, neck, chin, cheeks, etc.
I have no idea why she thought she needed all those measurements, but she took them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I use N95 masks.
Were I to use a cloth one, it would make
sense to have an inserted N95 filter.

People make it seem any mask would do as long as you have something covering your face and nose. If anything, if they feel they need to, they should be telling people to wear N95 masks not just any material. It's the principle they're fussing about but, like vaccines, it should be addressed by circumstances.

I find that kind off odd, but I won't call you names for it.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes.
My wife made it for me.
Taking measurements of my face, neck, chin, cheeks, etc.
I have no idea why she thought she needed all those measurements, but she took them.

Getting a good fit around the nose is my problem.
Some masks leak so much air that my glasses fog.

 

[Subduction Zone]

People make it seem any mask would do as long as you have something covering your face and nose. If anything, if they feel they need to, they should be telling people to wear N95 masks not just any material. It's the principle they're fussing about but, like vaccines, it's by be argued by circumstances.

I find that kind off odd, but I won't call you names for it.

No mask is perfect. And there are drawbacks to N95 masks as well. I had to wear one at work and the cheap ones that were supplied were unwearable for long periods of time. They ate into the bridge of one's nose. People were putting padding under the mask which of course made it no more effective, and perhaps less so, than a surgical mask. Disposable surgical masks have the benefit of being cheap and wearable. They are far better than nothing or a nonfunctioning N95 mask.

 

[McBell]

Getting a good fit around the nose is my problem.
Some masks leak so much air that my glasses fog.

lol

That is exactly why my wife made mine.
Well, that and now I can wash it when it needs to be washed,

She made one for herself, but the nursing home where she works says it is not adequate for while she is on the clock.
Of course, they also now require face shields to be worn as well as the mask...

 

[Unveiled Artist]

NOT when it comes to the rights and justifications of the businesses requiring them for entry.

Okay. I get that. Though, with masks I don't see much of an issue. With vaccine, given its a medical (lbw), people would be a bit more cautious of. I mean, businesses can do whatever they want, but I still feel it's forcing and it will backfire more so than the masks problem. Soon as you know it, people would "have" to wear masks and vaccinate or have to stay home and order out food.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Since when do your rights over ride the rights of others?

Wait. Who said it does?

You have the right to not get vaccinated.
You DO NOT have the right to take away the rights of others because you have not been vaccinated.

Who said I want to????

You're putting words/intentions in my mouth. Where did I say that?

 

[Trailblazer]

Yes, it is.
At least what I am talking about.
You know the businesses that are requiring it in order to legally be on their property.

In fact, I even flat out included in my statement "(barring the government requiring them)"...

Which renders the rest of your post an irrelevant strawman.

Within the context of being required by businesses it s the same, but only within that context.
My post was not a straw-man, just a reply based upon a misunderstanding of what you had posted.
Only God is infallible, all humans make mistakes.

 

[Revoltingest]

Within the context of being required by businesses it s the same, but only within that context.
My post was not a straw-man, just a reply based upon a misunderstanding of what you had posted.
Only God is infallible, all humans make mistakes.

God's record isn't so great either.

 

[McBell]

My post was not a straw-man, just a reply based upon a misunderstanding of what you had posted.

Fair enough

 

[Trailblazer]

God's record isn't so great either.

If you are referring to what the Bible says God did I'd agree, but I do not believe that is an accurate record of what God did.
Rather, it is what men said that God did.

 

[Revoltingest]

If you are referring to what the Bible says God did I'd agree, but I do not believe that is an accurate record of what God did.
Rather, it is what men said that God did.

I hereby enter history & current events into evidence.
A perfect God & Trump's haircut cannot co-exist.