By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

I think that it is important to keep in mind that whatever stories are attributed to Jesus in the Bible are most likely fabricated, or they may contain a sliver of truth, but they were greatly embellished for effect in an effort by his devoted followers to make him appear to be more than what he was and to make him appear to be godlike, if not God himself. In my opinion, if Jesus was a real person, then he was an ordinary man and prominent religious leader whose followers fabricated and embellished stories about him by copying and adapting a few myths from Greek mythology and other stories of pagan gods that they were familiar with at the time. I also believe that the Bible is riddled with contradictions, as demonstrated in these articles. In light of all this, I believe it's reasonable to presume that what's written in the Bible should be taken with a grain of salt and that we should not derive our sense of morality from it.

101 Clear Contradictions In The Bible

The Bible is Fiction: A Collection of Evidence

BibViz Project-Bible Contradictions, Misogyny, Violence, Inaccuracies interactively visualized

No matter how you look at it, we know the Bible was written in parts and not put together until after Jesus passed and the temple destroyed.

 

[Windwalker]

I cannot imagine he knew about the contrived theory of evolution that became so popular later on.

The theory of evolution is not a contrived theory at all. It is a model of explanation of factual data we have from multiple sources of attestation. The science is undeniable. It's rock solid. But that fact aside here, you are right he didn't know about the science of evolution, because he lived before its time. He also would not have known anything about combustible engines and automobiles, air travel, nor computers, cell phones, or the Internet.

That's does not diminish him to me. Does that diminish him in your eyes? I'm curious to hear your answer to that.

Interestingly enough though, he had powers in him given by his Father. Remember though that two prophets prior to Jesus raised the dead. No one considered them as God or God in human form.

So what are you saying here? You don't believe Jesus was God in flesh? I thought your argument was that he would have been omniscience because he was God in the flesh?

So then if you don't believe that, then why would you have a problem with him not knowing about evolution, and his reference to Adam and Eve had nothing at all to do with answering the question about earth sciences?

Why should this upset you that he would not have been aware of it, nor even think about it, or intend to address that question at all to anyone in his citing Adam and Eve? Does the theory of evolution threaten your faith somehow? In what ways?

 

[Sgt. Pepper]

The problem or difference of stories ike Paul Bunyan or whoever is the details. And longevity of the account passed on and preserved.

Greek mythology predates the Bible, so its mythological stories also qualify as long-lived and preserved. There are also many factual references in Greek mythology as well as references to a multitude of supernatural beings. However, I highly doubt that any Christian will insist that Zeus, Hera, Ares, Athena, or any of the other deities mentioned in Greek mythology are real gods and goddesses. In fact, I'm quite confident that Christians will reject these deities and discard them as figments of people's imaginations. They will nevertheless insist that their God exists and will also point out factual references in the Bible in an effort to affirm their belief. They will not only assert that their God is real, but they will also insist that their God divinely inspired the Bible.

 

[YoursTrue]

The theory of evolution is not a contrived theory at all. It is a model of explanation of factual data we have from multiple sources of attestation. The science is undeniable. It's rock solid. But that fact aside here, you are right he didn't know about the science of evolution, because he lived before its time. He also would not have known anything about combustible engines and automobiles, air travel, nor computers, cell phones, or the Internet.

That's does not diminish him to me. Does that diminish him in your eyes? I'm curious to hear your answer to that.

So what are you saying here? You don't believe Jesus was God in flesh? I thought your argument was that he would have been omniscience because he was God in the flesh?

So then if you don't believe that, then why would you have a problem with him not knowing about evolution, and his reference to Adam and Eve had nothing at all to do with answering the question about earth sciences?

Why should this upset you that he would not have been aware of it, nor even think about it, or intend to address that question at all to anyone in his citing Adam and Eve? Does the theory of evolution threaten your faith somehow? In what ways?

I knew you probably wouldn't like the word contrived, but it is. Because Jesus did not say if he knew about the future thought of the idea of the theory of evolution, but he did say that God made by creation the first man and woman. Do you think Jesus maybe was under a misconception? "And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. " (Mark 10:6)

 

[YoursTrue]

Greek mythology predates the Bible, so its mythological stories also qualify as long-lived and preserved. There are also many factual references in Greek mythology as well as references to a multitude of supernatural beings. However, I highly doubt that any Christian will insist that Zeus, Hera, Ares, Athena, or any of the other deities mentioned in Greek mythology are real gods and goddesses. In fact, I'm quite confident that Christians will reject these deities and discard them as figments of people's imaginations. They will nevertheless insist that their God exists and will also point out factual references in the Bible in an effort to affirm their belief. They will not only assert that their God is real, but they will also insist that their God divinely inspired the Bible.

God did inspire the Bible. It is a document preserved for over a thousand years in segments as the events continued, written as the history of the Jews and the promised Messiah and the kingdom of God basically until the deaths of the apostles. Obviously not accepted by everyone, and that lack of acceptance is even recorded in the holy scriptures themselves.

 

[YoursTrue]

Greek mythology predates the Bible, so its mythological stories also qualify as long-lived and preserved. There are also many factual references in Greek mythology as well as references to a multitude of supernatural beings. However, I highly doubt that any Christian will insist that Zeus, Hera, Ares, Athena, or any of the other deities mentioned in Greek mythology are real gods and goddesses. In fact, I'm quite confident that Christians will reject these deities and discard them as figments of people's imaginations. They will nevertheless insist that their God exists and will also point out factual references in the Bible in an effort to affirm their belief. They will not only assert that their God is real, but they will also insist that their God divinely inspired the Bible.

It depends what a person thinks is a 'real' god. And that is what much of the Bible is about.

 

[YoursTrue]

The theory of evolution is not a contrived theory at all. It is a model of explanation of factual data we have from multiple sources of attestation. The science is undeniable. It's rock solid. But that fact aside here, you are right he didn't know about the science of evolution, because he lived before its time. He also would not have known anything about combustible engines and automobiles, air travel, nor computers, cell phones, or the Internet.

That's does not diminish him to me. Does that diminish him in your eyes? I'm curious to hear your answer to that.

So what are you saying here? You don't believe Jesus was God in flesh? I thought your argument was that he would have been omniscience because he was God in the flesh?

So then if you don't believe that, then why would you have a problem with him not knowing about evolution, and his reference to Adam and Eve had nothing at all to do with answering the question about earth sciences?

Why should this upset you that he would not have been aware of it, nor even think about it, or intend to address that question at all to anyone in his citing Adam and Eve? Does the theory of evolution threaten your faith somehow? In what ways?

I do not see the Bible explaining that Jesus was God in the flesh equal to God not in the flesh. It doesn't upset me that Jesus did not mention (the theory of) evolution. He in fact corroborated the fact that God is the Creator.

 

[Windwalker]

It doesn't upset me that Jesus did not mention (the theory of) evolution. He in fact corroborated the fact that God is the Creator.

Does the theory of evolution deny God is the Creator?

 

[Windwalker]

I knew you probably wouldn't like the word contrived, but it is.

No it is not contrived. It is extremely well supported and well proven out. You simply calling it contrived is just bad mouthing something because you dislike it for some unknown reason.

Because Jesus did not say if he knew about the future thought of the idea of the theory of evolution, but he did say that God made by creation the first man and woman. Do you think Jesus maybe was under a misconception?

If God is the Creator, and evolution is supported science, then God created the first man and woman through evolutionary processes. Right?

"And Jesus answered and said unto them, For the hardness of your heart he wrote you this precept. 6But from the beginning of the creation God made them male and female. " (Mark 10:6)

Sure, when you are speaking of humans, from the very beginning of the homo sapiens branch in the evolutionary tree, they were always male and female. That is what the science shows too. So there is no contradiction with what Jesus said and what the science shows there. Is there?

 

[YoursTrue]

Does the theory of evolution deny God is the Creator?

It does not coordinate with the events as outlined by Moses regarding creation. There is virtually no reason (any more) for me to believe the theory of evolution as outined by theorists in reference to events causing various types supposedly caused by natural selection, survival of the fittest regarding that which supposedly evolved by mutations. It is theoretical and clashes with the account in Genesis as well as Jesus' own words regarding the creation by God.

 

[YoursTrue]

No it is not contrived. It is extremely well supported and well proven out. You simply calling it contrived is just bad mouthing something because you dislike it for some unknown reason.

If God is the Creator, and evolution is supported science, then God created the first man and woman through evolutionary processes. Right?

Sure, when you are speaking of humans, from the very beginning of the homo sapiens branch in the evolutionary tree, they were always male and female. That is what the science shows too. So there is no contradiction with what Jesus said and what the science shows there. Is there?

Evolution is not supported by fact. It is supported by conjecture, whether one admits it or not. I repeat that I did not believe that until I studied the Bible. Of course, granted that many will not admit that fossils supposedly are imposed into the theory but there is really nothing beyond that imposed placement because there is no real evidence, and by evidence I mean seeing fish morph into landlubbers. Evolution speaks of mutations happening and survival of the fittest by mutation. I can go over more about mutation later hopefully.

 

[Elihoenai]

So do you have any information that Genghis Khan wrote any words as he said they were from God? just wondering...

Ephesians 4:6

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


All Words are From Elohim/God because Elohim/God Being Omni is Everything that Exists. The Words From Elohim/God Binds you to Earth or to Heaven.

Elohim/God Created All the Religions. Christianity is the Superior Religion.

Apparently Genghis Khan Devoted Religion was Tengrism:

Tengrism

Tengrism (also known as Tengriism, Tengerism, or Tengrianism) is an ethnic Turkic, Yenisenian, Mongolic religion originating in the Eurasian steppes based on shamanism and animism. It is generally involves the titular sky god Tengri,[1] who is not considered a deity in the usual sense, but a personification of the universe.[2] According to some scholars, adherents of Tengrism view the purpose of life, to be in harmony with the universe.

Tengrism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did Yehsua/Jesus Practice Shamanism? Is the Universal Roman Catholic Church's Real Presence of Messiah/Christ in the Eucharist Animism?

 

[Windwalker]

It does not coordinate with the events as outlined by Moses regarding creation.

When I read the two different stories of creation in Genesis, I'm not reading them as a scientific explanation of how things were created in any literal sense. I don't see that was their intent, to satisfy the scientific mind.

For instance, if I were to read it literally in a scientific way, it's confusing. How do you have plants on earth before the sun was in the sky, for instance? How did the earth have an atmosphere before the sun existed? How could the earth itself exist before the sun existed, since there would be no gravitational forces strong enough to form the planets without the sun? Etc.

To say the very least, if this was intended to be a scientific explanation of how the cosmos, our solar system, how the planet was formed, or how life literally came to be in what literal order on this planet, it doesn't jibe with any of the sciences at all, not just the theory of evolution. It's doesn't fit the law of gravity either. It doesn't fit with cosmology. It doesn't fit with any of the earth sciences. It doesn't fit any evidences we have of anything in science at all. You basically has to say that all science is all wrong in everything they say, not just the theory of evolution.

Is this what you say? That all science is wrong about everything, from physics to biology and everything in between, because your reading of Genesis doesn't fit with what all the sciences say?

To me the answer is extremely simple. The problem is reading Genesis in such a way it was not written to understood as. Its chronology was simply a matter of addressing topics about who created the various forms we have, was it the Hebrew God, or was it these other gods of the sun and the moon and the stars as the pagans believed in?

That's the true context. It was simply not meant to be understood to be teaching modern science, and asking any believer in God to jettison reason and knowledge in order to believe in the Divine. That's both absurd and obscene.

There is virtually no reason (any more) for me to believe the theory of evolution as outined by theorists in reference to events causing various types supposedly caused by natural selection, survival of the fittest regarding that which supposedly evolved by mutations.

What about gravity? What about cosmology? What about geology? Do you reject all of this as well because you place your interpretation of Genesis above all the earth sciences in all areas of knowledge?

It is theoretical and clashes with the account in Genesis as well as Jesus' own words regarding the creation by God.

It is not theoretical. You have a misunderstanding of what "theory" means in science. It does not mean a supposition or a hunch, or a guess, or a speculation. The word actually means "an explanatory model based upon the supported data". That means the data has been confirmed as factual by scientific methods of analysis. It means the data is considered reliable. And then the "theory" part of it takes a look at all the evidence, and creates a model explaining how they fit together, and how they work.

So the "theory of evolution" really means the "story of evolution" in a real sense. Compared this to the "Creation story of Genesis", which is really the "story of the Hebrew God" to address their deity in contrast to other deities. They are different stories, explaining different things in different ways to different audiences for different purposes. They cannot be taken as competing accounts of anything.

So you not only are falling short in understanding the sciences, but you equally do not understand the biblical materials you are looking at either.

 

[YoursTrue]

Ephesians 4:6

6 One God and Father of all, who is above all, and through all, and in you all.


All Words are From Elohim/God because Elohim/God Being Omni is Everything that Exists. The Words From Elohim/God Binds you to Earth or to Heaven.

Elohim/God Created All the Religions. Christianity is the Superior Religion.

Apparently Genghis Khan Devoted Religion was Tengrism:

Tengrism

Tengrism (also known as Tengriism, Tengerism, or Tengrianism) is an ethnic Turkic, Yenisenian, Mongolic religion originating in the Eurasian steppes based on shamanism and animism. It is generally involves the titular sky god Tengri,[1] who is not considered a deity in the usual sense, but a personification of the universe.[2] According to some scholars, adherents of Tengrism view the purpose of life, to be in harmony with the universe.

Tengrism - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Did Yehsua/Jesus Practice Shamanism? Is the Universal Roman Catholic Church's Real Presence of Messiah/Christ in the Eucharist Animism?

This has to be reflective of some wayyy out ideas. Bye for now.

 

[YoursTrue]

When I read the two different stories of creation in Genesis, I'm not reading them as a scientific explanation of how things were created in any literal sense. I don't see that was their intent, to satisfy the scientific mind.

For instance, if I were to read it literally in a scientific way, it's confusing. How do you have plants on earth before the sun was in the sky, for instance? How did the earth have an atmosphere before the sun existed? How could the earth itself exist before the sun existed, since there would be no gravitational forces strong enough to form the planets without the sun? Etc.

To say the very least, if this was intended to be a scientific explanation of how the cosmos, our solar system, how the planet was formed, or how life literally came to be in what literal order on this planet, it doesn't jibe with any of the sciences at all, not just the theory of evolution. It's doesn't fit the law of gravity either. It doesn't fit with cosmology. It doesn't fit with any of the earth sciences. It doesn't fit any evidences we have of anything in science at all. You basically has to say that all science is all wrong in everything they say, not just the theory of evolution.

Is this what you say? That all science is wrong about everything, from physics to biology and everything in between, because your reading of Genesis doesn't fit with what all the sciences say?

To me the answer is extremely simple. The problem is reading Genesis in such a way it was not written to understood as. Its chronology was simply a matter of addressing topics about who created the various forms we have, was it the Hebrew God, or was it these other gods of the sun and the moon and the stars as the pagans believed in?

That's the true context. It was simply not meant to be understood to be teaching modern science, and asking any believer in God to jettison reason and knowledge in order to believe in the Divine. That's both absurd and obscene.

What about gravity? What about cosmology? What about geology? Do you reject all of this as well because you place your interpretation of Genesis above all the earth sciences in all areas of knowledge?

It is not theoretical. You have a misunderstanding of what "theory" means in science. It does not mean a supposition or a hunch, or a guess, or a speculation. The word actually means "an explanatory model based upon the supported data". That means the data has been confirmed as factual by scientific methods of analysis. It means the data is considered reliable. And then the "theory" part of it takes a look at all the evidence, and creates a model explaining how they fit together, and how they work.

So the "theory of evolution" really means the "story of evolution" in a real sense. Compared this to the "Creation story of Genesis", which is really the "story of the Hebrew God" to address their deity in contrast to other deities. They are different stories, explaining different things in different ways to different audiences for different purposes. They cannot be taken as competing accounts of anything.

So you not only are falling short in understanding the sciences, but you equally do not understand the biblical materials you are looking at either.

Ok we settle with what we know and accept. Have a good one for now. Bye.

 

[Windwalker]

Ok we settle with what we know and accept. Have a good one for now. Bye.

Thanks for clarifying for me. I didn't realize some Christians don't just merely reject the theory of evolution, but all sciences including physics, astronomy, biology, cosmology, etc., in order to preserve their faith in their reading of Genesis.

But each person does have to walk their own path of faith to arrive at truth at some point, I suppose. I personally don't find it supportive of faith, but everyone has to figure out what works for themselves for where they are at at that time in their faith. Best wishes to you.

 

[exchemist]

Thanks for clarifying for me. I didn't realize some Christians don't just merely reject the theory of evolution, but all sciences including physics, astronomy, biology, cosmology, etc., in order to preserve their faith in their reading of Genesis.

But each person does have to walk their own path of faith to arrive at truth at some point, I suppose. I personally don't find it supportive of faith, but everyone has to figure out what works for themselves for where they are at at that time in their faith. Best wishes to you.

Yes, even if it means walking into the metaphorical lamp post in some cases..............

 

[Windwalker]

Yes, even if it means walking into the metaphorical lamp post in some cases..............

Well yes, sometimes it takes banging your head against reality enough to figure out walking with your eyes facing your feet isn't serving your very well.

I had this verse from the Psalms pop into my head just now. "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?" The answer to that is fleeing into denialism. Turning our faces away from the light of knowledge, is really great way to hide from Truth, and in my way of seeing that, fleeing from God.

Faith in God does not require self-lobotomies, though it is clear many Christians believe it does and teach others it is. "You're not a Christian if you accept science and deny how I read Genesis.", for instance.

 

[exchemist]

Well yes, sometimes it takes banging your head against reality enough to figure out walking with your eyes facing your feet isn't serving your very well.

I had this verse from the Psalms pop into my head just now. "Where can I go from your Spirit? Where can I flee from your presence?" The answer to that is fleeing into denialism. Turning our faces away from the light of knowledge, is really great way to hide from Truth, and in my way of seeing that, fleeing from God.

Faith in God does not require self-lobotomies, though it is clear many Christians believe it does and teach others it is. "You're not a Christian if you accept science and deny how I read Genesis.", for instance.

Quite. As someone with a Catholic upbringing, I prefer a bottle in front of me to a frontal lobotomy.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yes. It really reminds me of so many occasions recorded in the Bible where there were those for the conclusions or against. So interesting and helpful. And sad in a sense because of several factors.

Yes, mainly because of the confusion and hypocrisy within Christendom itself. Unfortunately, many throw out the Bible, too.

There’s a lot in it that is misunderstood… that’s why Jesus’ statement at Luke 10:21 is so appropriate & profound: only His Father, Jehovah/Yahweh, reveals it accurately. Those who don’t worship Him solely (Exodus 20:1-5), through Jesus (John 14:6), will just continue to misunderstand it.

Some poster on here once said that they thought that God would still grant an accurate understanding of His Word to someone even if they weren’t obedient to Him! The Bible’s numerous accounts of how Jehovah has felt about & dealt with those who were willfully disobedient to Him, shows otherwise.

One example of disobedience is easily observed… Jesus said his followers should love each other, and even love their enemy (John 13:35: Matthew 5:44)… yet what has been the reputation / example of Christendom in this regard? Its leaders have been encouraging their members to join in worldly conflicts & kill their brothers, since it’s inception!

No wonder Jesus said there would be “many” calling him Lord, but Jesus would call them, “workers of lawlessness”! (Matthew 7:21-23). No one should expect those organizations to have any accurate understanding granted by God, since they’re not truly following His Son. (Titus 1:16) Up to a point maybe, but once it gets inconvenient/uncomfortable, they stop.

It may be harsh, but it’s true.