By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

I believe there is no company in Hell and company is rare in Heaven but the climate is always as good as you wish it to be.

That's not what I believe, based on what the Bible says. Naturally everyone can believe what he wants to believe, whether it's in the Bible or messaged to their brains by some sort of outside or inside communication. Have a good day, evening.

 

[2ndpillar]

That's not what I believe, based on what the Bible says. Naturally everyone can believe what he wants to believe, whether it's in the Bible or messaged to their brains by some sort of outside or inside communication. Have a good day, evening.

Sheol, the place of the dead, is one shared with the worms, in the ground. The hell on earth, is the hell of the walking dead, who make their own hell on earth, which is rarely combined with an open flame. As for the NT, it depends on what "message" you listen to. Either the message of the "enemy" (Mt 13:25) or that of the "son of man" (Mt 13:37-38).

New American Standard Bible Mt 13:35
But while his men were sleeping, his enemy came and sowed weeds among the wheat, and left.

Matthew 13: 37 He said, “The one who sows the good seed is the Son of Man, 38and the field is the world; and as for the good seed, these are the sons of the kingdom; and the tares are the sons of the evil one; 39and the enemy who sowed them is the devil, and the harvest is the end of the age; and the reapers are angels.

 

[Muffled]

Right, and black people made a big deal about Christians who believed “God was perfect in them” in declaring slavery was just. You are using the Bible as cover for your bigotry just as Confederate Christians used it for their bigotry.

What about you and your bigoted views?

What makes you think your interpretation of the Old Testament is correct and relevant to free citizens in the 21st century? They have religious freedom from your negative attitudes. You’re free to your beliefs but they have no authority over others. You aren’t a God.

I believe the slaveholders were not perfect in God and were wrong. I believe I am right. You can call rigteusness anything you want but it will not change it.

I believe that would be Jesus in me.

I believe I am not a god but I have God and His righteous judgements in me. Just because some people have used propaganda to fool people into thinking it is OK, doesn't mean a child of God is going to be fooled.

 

[Muffled]

That's not what I believe, based on what the Bible says. Naturally everyone can believe what he wants to believe, whether it's in the Bible or messaged to their brains by some sort of outside or inside communication. Have a good day, evening.

I will bite. What verses do you think apply? I don't know of any.

 

[2ndpillar]

I believe the slaveholders were not perfect in God and were wrong. I believe I am right. You can call rigteusness anything you want but it will not change it.

After the "fortunes of Judah", are "restored", with respect to the "valley of judgment" (Joel 3:1-2), the "day of the LORD" (Joel 2:31-32), the nations/Gentiles will be sold into slavery for what they did to the children of Israel (Joel 3:8).

Joel 3:8 I will sell your sons and your daughters Into the hand of the people of Judah, And they will sell them to the Sabeans, To a people far off; For the LORD has spoken.”

Joel 3:8 I believe that would be Jesus in me.

Unless you are sitting at the right hand of God at this moment (Psalms 110:1), then the only thing "in me" would be the spirit of the anti Christ, who went out from us, which would be the demon spirit of the false prophet (Rev 16:13), getting ready for Har-Magedon (Rev 16:16), the "day of the LORD".

1 John 2:17 The world is passing away, along with its desires; but whoever does the will of God remains forever. 18Children, it is the last hour; and just as you have heard that the antichrist is coming, so now many antichrists have appeared. This is how we know it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they did not belong to us. For if they had belonged to us, they would have remained with us. But their departure made it clear that none of them belonged to us.…

 

[YoursTrue]

Which parts of what? Do you mean the Bible?

Every bit of it. Some of it requires a symbolic explanation though, while other parts require a literal interpretation.

Being aware of the Bible’s main theme (the vindication of God’s Sovereignty & his name YHWH / Yahweh / Jehovah) and accepting its 66-book-canon in its entirety ( its canon from Genesis to Revelation) helps in seeing its harmony in deciphering which parts are literal and which parts are figurative, i.e., symbolic.

In all honesty though, I didn’t learn this on my own. Rather, I was taught this by Jehovah’s Witnesses. It was then, in my late teens, that I found the Bible to be authentic.

I’ve been a student of it ever since!

IMO

Without the understanding and belief I have in the Bible I'd be without hope. I am glad I learned truly what the Bible says.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes. I think most people already have... especially here.

Yes. It really reminds me of so many occasions recorded in the Bible where there were those for the conclusions or against. So interesting and helpful. And sad in a sense because of several factors.

 

[YoursTrue]

There is a reason Jesus said "Let them be".
Do you recall that account?

Jesus had just finished using strong words in public. He said, "You hypocrites, Isaiah aptly prophesied about you when he said: ‘This people honor me with their lips, but their hearts are far removed from me. It is in vain that they keep worshipping me, for they teach commands of men as doctrines.’” (Matthew 15:7-9)

Then the disciples came and said to him: “Do you know that the Pharisees were stumbled at hearing what you said?” (Matthew 15:12)

In reply Jesus said: “Every plant that my heavenly Father did not plant will be uprooted. Let them be. Blind guides is what they are. If, then, a blind man guides a blind man, both will fall into a pit.” (Matthew 15:13, 14)

Did you notice... Jesus did not try to get them to admit that they were actually being hypocritical, or wrong in their twisting the scriptures. He just let them know, and Brum. Dun wid dat.
If they want to remain blind, "let them be".

So, my encouragement to you, as I have mentioned before, let it go.
If people want to remain in their "comfort zone", just let them be.
Like Jesus, just say what you have to say, and dun wid dat.

It's clear from @Windwalker's posts, that he knows quite well that you were not saying that reading the Bible makes one a Christian, but rather, what every Christian knows... you cannot claim to be Christian if you don't accept what Jesus taught, and Jesus taught the scriptures, from Genesis, to Malachi - from the angel that sinned in the beginning who was identified as the original serpent; through to Adam and Eve who was made from a rib, through to Lot and his wife who turned to salt; through to Moses who led Israel out of Egypt; through to Jonah who was swallowed by a big fish, etc. ...as historical, not allegorical, or myth.

True. Thanks

 

[YoursTrue]

What do you mean by illustrations? As far as I know, the only requirement to be a Christian is to follow Jesus. Learning what the Bible says is not a requirement. I don't know anywhere in scripture it makes that a condition of being a Christian. Do you? If so, I'm sure a lot of Christians would be in a lot of trouble, considering how little they actually know what it says.

Let me put it this way. Since Jesus spoke of Adam and Eve and Adam being the first man, how closely would you say we are to follow Jesus? Until it stops being convenient? Matthew 19:4 "And he answering said--did ye never read--He who created at the beginning Male and female made them," So to follow Jesus at what point would you stop?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Let me put it this way. Since Jesus spoke of Adam and Eve and Adam being the first man, how closely would you say we are to follow Jesus? Until it stops being convenient? Matthew 19:4 "And he answering said--did ye never read--He who created at the beginning Male and female made them," So to follow Jesus at what point would you stop?

Jesus used all sorts of literary devices in his work. He also referred to Noah and even you have to know that there never was a worldwide flood. If I point to an old lady and say "She is as old as the hills." am I lying? I can assure you that I am not. That is just a way of saying that she is very very old. Jesus could have used the same sort of literary tool to indicate that mankind has always been that way.

 

[Windwalker]

Let me put it this way. Since Jesus spoke of Adam and Eve and Adam being the first man, how closely would you say we are to follow Jesus? Until it stops being convenient? Matthew 19:4 "And he answering said--did ye never read--He who created at the beginning Male and female made them," So to follow Jesus at what point would you stop?

I speak of Adam and Eve all the time as illustrations, or figures, or symbols of our humanity. I also speak of the love of Romeo and Juliet, and you fully understand what I mean when I or anyone else refers to them. But Romeo and Juliet were not actual historical people. That doesn't make me a liar to speak of them, or that I am affirming I believe they were literal historical people because I refer to them. They are effective symbols and common references for people. Ditto for Jesus speaking of Adam and Eve.

Following Jesus has absolutely zero to do with believing he believed Adam and Eve were literal people. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It doesn't really matter, because that wasn't his point in bringing them up. He wasn't arguing for Creationism, for goodness sake!

 

[YoursTrue]

I speak of Adam and Eve all the time as illustrations, or figures, or symbols of our humanity. I also speak of the love of Romeo and Juliet, and you fully understand what I mean when I or anyone else refers to them. But Romeo and Juliet were not actual historical people. That doesn't make me a liar to speak of them, or that I am affirming I believe they were literal historical people because I refer to them. They are effective symbols and common references for people. Ditto for Jesus speaking of Adam and Eve.

Following Jesus has absolutely zero to do with believing he believed Adam and Eve were literal people. Maybe he did, maybe he didn't. It doesn't really matter, because that wasn't his point in bringing them up. He wasn't arguing for Creationism, for goodness sake!

He spoke of them and the flood of Noah's day as real. He wasn't kidding.

 

[Elihoenai]

Which parts do you consider true? Please be specific.

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Every Book, Chapter, Verse and Word from Genesis to Revelation. Elohim/God Wrote the Holy Scriptures/Bible using Men as Empty Vessels to make Salvation Known. This Absolute Truth is Only Understood through Faith.

 

[Windwalker]

He spoke of them and the flood of Noah's day as real. He wasn't kidding.

We speak of Romeo and Juliet as real people too. But when we do, are we really talking about history, or what they represent to us? Same thing with Jesus speaking about Adam and Eve and the Flood. They are part of the stories of his culture that speak of truths everyone could understand. He wasn't lying, or kidding, or joking around. He simply was not speaking in the context of the natural sciences. He was speaking about what they represented.

For instance, you know you should not lie as a child because George Washington, when he took his new hatchet he had been given and chopped down the cherry tree with it, and his father confronted him he showed great integrity and honestly told his father, "I cannot lie, I chopped down that tree", and George's father embraced him for telling the truth." You've heard that story I'm sure. It sticks with you as a symbol of being a good child and being honest like George Washington was with his father.

Nevermind the fact that that never really happened historically. It still speaks truth about being honest in the story. Same thing with Adam and Eve. Same thing with Noah's ark. Did Jesus use the story? Yes. Why shouldn't he have? Even if he knew historically they didn't happen, the story is still the story and it contains truth, doesn't it? Romeo loved Juliet.

 

[YoursTrue]

We speak of Romeo and Juliet as real people too. But when we do, are we really talking about history, or what they represent to us? Same thing with Jesus speaking about Adam and Eve and the Flood. They are part of the stories of his culture that speak of truths everyone could understand. He wasn't lying, or kidding, or joking around. He simply was not speaking in the context of the natural sciences. He was speaking about what they represented.

For instance, you know you should not lie as a child because George Washington, when he took his new hatchet he had been given and chopped down the cherry tree with it, and his father confronted him he showed great integrity and honestly told his father, "I cannot lie, I chopped down that tree", and George's father embraced him for telling the truth." You've heard that story I'm sure. It sticks with you as a symbol of being a good child and being honest like George Washington was with his father.

Nevermind the fact that that never really happened historically. It still speaks truth about being honest in the story. Same thing with Adam and Eve. Same thing with Noah's ark. Did Jesus use the story? Yes. Why shouldn't he have? Even if he knew historically they didn't happen, the story is still the story and it contains truth, doesn't it? Romeo loved Juliet.

Jesus spoke of accounts in the Bible as being true. So don't pretend to follow Jesus if you don't believe that he spoke the truth.

 

[YoursTrue]

We speak of Romeo and Juliet as real people too. But when we do, are we really talking about history, or what they represent to us? Same thing with Jesus speaking about Adam and Eve and the Flood. They are part of the stories of his culture that speak of truths everyone could understand. He wasn't lying, or kidding, or joking around. He simply was not speaking in the context of the natural sciences. He was speaking about what they represented.

For instance, you know you should not lie as a child because George Washington, when he took his new hatchet he had been given and chopped down the cherry tree with it, and his father confronted him he showed great integrity and honestly told his father, "I cannot lie, I chopped down that tree", and George's father embraced him for telling the truth." You've heard that story I'm sure. It sticks with you as a symbol of being a good child and being honest like George Washington was with his father.

Nevermind the fact that that never really happened historically. It still speaks truth about being honest in the story. Same thing with Adam and Eve. Same thing with Noah's ark. Did Jesus use the story? Yes. Why shouldn't he have? Even if he knew historically they didn't happen, the story is still the story and it contains truth, doesn't it? Romeo loved Juliet.

Well, let's see - you say, "Why shouldn't he?" Let's go over sometime what is written that Jesus did and said, want to do that? And of course, you can say what you believe or don't. Just checking what is said to be his words, Matthew 3:15 has Jesus as saying, “Let me now, for it befits us to fulfill all righteousness thus." Do you believe he said that?

 

[YoursTrue]

2 Timothy 3:16

16 All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:


Every Book, Chapter, Verse and Word from Genesis to Revelation. Elohim/God Wrote the Holy Scriptures/Bible using Men as Empty Vessels to make Salvation Known. This Absolute Truth is Only Understood through Faith.

Let me put it this way: He didn't use Genghis Kahn to write any words in the Bible.

 

[Windwalker]

Jesus spoke of accounts in the Bible as being true. So don't pretend to follow Jesus if you don't believe that he spoke the truth.

Yes, speaking of things as if they are true, is the nature of metaphors. They are as-if statements, that speak actual truth. And who are you to say I cannot be following Jesus if I don't think about the Bible and its stories the same as you? "Who are you to judge someone else’s servant? To their own master, servants stand or fall."

 

[Windwalker]

Well, let's see - you say, "Why shouldn't he?" Let's go over sometime what is written that Jesus did and said, want to do that? And of course, you can say what you believe or don't. Just checking what is said to be his words, Matthew 3:15 has Jesus as saying, “Let me now, for it befits us to fulfill all righteousness thus." Do you believe he said that?

Sure, I believe what Jesus taught fulfilled all the law. What does this have to do with reading his referring to Adam and Eve, have anything to do with believing he meant to be telling you today that the science of evolution is wrong?

I think you are badly mistaken in thinking that was his intent, or that it could be read that way in support of an anti-science belief. Those have nothing to do with actual faith in Jesus. The context was not about teaching science.

 

[YoursTrue]

Sure, I believe what Jesus taught fulfilled all the law. What does this have to do with reading his referring to Adam and Eve, have anything to do with believing he meant to be telling you today that the science of evolution is wrong?

Well now, let's take another statement of Jesus to see what Jesus believed and taught.
Going further in Matthew, he said (Matthew 4:4, “It is written ‘Not upon bread alone shall man live, but upon every word that comes out of God’s mouth.’”
Reading that, how do you feel about that? What did Jesus say about that?