The reason for the divergence, is according to Mt 13, the gospel of the "kingdom" (Mt 13:13), given in parables, is only for those with ears to hear, and the description is given in parables, and is that there are two messages, one of the "enemy"/"devil", which is followed by those who "commit lawlessness" and who are to be, at the "end of the age", thrown into the "furnace of fire", whereas the other message, is the message of righteousness, given by the "son of man", with regard to those who keep the Commandments, in which the two groups of followers will be separated, and the "wicked" (lawless) will be thrown into the "furnace of fire" (Haro-Magedon). How this occurs, according to Matthew 7, the "false prophets", such as Paul, will lead the "many" to "destruction". (Mt 7:13-15). Paul's message of I am a Jew to the Jews, and a Gentile to the Gentiles, is a good starting point of the hypocrisy the "Christian" faith is based.
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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
- Thread starter YoursTrue
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PureX
Veteran Member
A dozen young campers and their adult guide are hiking from an entrance on one side of a small forest to an exit on the other side. They all enter the forest at more or less the same place at the same time, and they all walk in a group through the forest to the same exit point on the other side, and arrive there at more or less the same time.
And yet no two campers walked the exact same path through the forest. Each of the campers walked their own specific path, and each experienced the walk in their own specific way. Because each of them inhabits their own unique space and time, and experiences it in their own unique way, and each has to do it alone because no one else can inhabit that unique space and time with them. And when they get back home and their parents ask them to tell them about the hike, each of the campers will tell a somewhat similar, and somewhat different story. Because, how could it be otherwise?
Now imagine 10 billion Christians all trying to get from "point A" to "point B" over the course of their lifetime. But they aren't all starting from the same "point A", nor at the same time. And there are so many of them that the pathway through the forest has to be miles wide. And those on the right or in the front will never even see those on the left or following later.
So of course when you ask these billions of people to tell us how their hike is going, they are going to tell us some very different stories. How could it be otherwise?
And yet they are still 10 billion Christians hiking from "point A" to "point B". And they will all experience a similar, and yet ultimately unique, hike.
Because, how could it be otherwise?
And yet no two campers walked the exact same path through the forest. Each of the campers walked their own specific path, and each experienced the walk in their own specific way. Because each of them inhabits their own unique space and time, and experiences it in their own unique way, and each has to do it alone because no one else can inhabit that unique space and time with them. And when they get back home and their parents ask them to tell them about the hike, each of the campers will tell a somewhat similar, and somewhat different story. Because, how could it be otherwise?
Now imagine 10 billion Christians all trying to get from "point A" to "point B" over the course of their lifetime. But they aren't all starting from the same "point A", nor at the same time. And there are so many of them that the pathway through the forest has to be miles wide. And those on the right or in the front will never even see those on the left or following later.
So of course when you ask these billions of people to tell us how their hike is going, they are going to tell us some very different stories. How could it be otherwise?
And yet they are still 10 billion Christians hiking from "point A" to "point B". And they will all experience a similar, and yet ultimately unique, hike.
Because, how could it be otherwise?
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Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I think it's also worth noting that Christians don't agree on whether salvation in Jesus is unconditional or not, although they all read the Bible. They believe diverse biblical interpretations and church doctrines about salvation, which is defined as Calvinism vs. Arminianism (unconditional salvation vs. conditional salvation). Some Christians claim that salvation is conditional, and they will quote a few scriptures they believe support their belief. Other Christians claim that salvation is unconditional (OSAS), and they quote a few scriptures they believe support their belief. Yet other Christians claim that speaking in tongues or baptism is required for salvation, and they also quote a few scriptures they believe support their belief. It's ironic that they all claim the Holy Spirit gave them "spiritual discernment" to properly understand the Bible, but it's obvious that they all contradict each other. They all cite the Bible in an attempt to defend their answers, even though their answers are very different and contradictory. They also believe that they are correct about their preferred beliefs and everyone else (including other Christians) is wrong about theirs, but they have the audacity to claim that the Bible is the word of God and Christianity is the only true religion in the world. In my opinion, there's no reason to believe them. It seems unreasonable to me for any Christian to assert that their preferred biblical interpretation and theology are correct while simultaneously claiming that other Christians are wrong, that their God divinely inspired the Bible, and that Christianity is the only true religion and is superior to all other religions. I think it's also unreasonable for them to expect non-Christians to accept the Bible as the final authority on moral issues and as divinely inspired by their God, yet they cannot agree on what the Bible actually teaches.
I think the better question is why you don’t hear Him. IMHO
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
There is a scripture that states, "You will seek me and find me when you seek me with all your heart" (Jeremiah 29:13). Well, I genuinely believed in God and sought him with all my heart for forty years, but I never found him. I did, however, find disappointment, sadness, and a constant feeling of hopelessness because I was left all alone to deal with the abuse, bullying, and harassment on my own while I was growing up. After forty years of looking for God, I finally realized that either he doesn't actually exist, or if he does, he obviously doesn't give a damn about me. I realized that if he exists, then he obviously doesn't give a damn that I suffered abuse while I was growing up or that I've dealt with PTSD because of the severe abuse, trauma, and constant bullying I suffered while growing up. I eventually learned how to deal with the PTSD on my own, and fortunately for me, my beloved husband has been supportive of me every step of the way for the past 30 and 1/2 years. It took me thirty years to realize that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me and a waste of my time. Sadly, I wasted the majority of my life believing in him, only to end up empty-handed, angry, and depressed. I finally found the courage to remove the rose-colored glasses and face my reality, which was that I had been ignorant and gullible to trust in God for so long and had mistakenly assumed he would be my heavenly father. I eventually learned how to care for myself and my family without feeling the need to rely on my faith in God.
I never felt inner peace in my life until after I renounced my belief in God and left Christianity. Have you ever heard of the expression "playing church?" That's exactly what I did. I went through the motions and pretended to experience God, as other Christians claimed they had, but I never did. I tried really hard to experience God, but I felt such hopelessness whenever I tried and failed. It took me a long time to admit that I had been pretending to experience God's presence in my life when I never genuinely did. I understood I had to be honest with myself and quit pretending. I realized that I was wasting my life by pretending to feel the presence of God in my life when he either doesn't really exist or, if he does, obviously doesn't give a damn about me. I did a lot of soul-searching and had to ask myself why I was so committed to clinging to the false hope that I had in believing in God. I came to the realization that believing in God was an emotional crutch for me. I also realized that if I was ever going to recover emotionally and change my life for the better, I needed to let go of this crutch. My mental health and emotional well-being have significantly improved as a result of letting it go. In retrospect, it was one of the best decisions I've ever made for my well-being. And while I don't regret my decision, I wish that I had made it years earlier so that I could have avoided decades of depression and emotional turmoil. Finally, for the last three and a half years, through my survivors of childhood abuse support group, I have offered support and encouragement to other former Christians or Christians on the verge of leaving Christianity. I can relate to what they're going through.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Probably because I do not make the same errors that you do.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
@Sgt. Pepper - Naturally you and others will disagree with what Christians believe, because I have read your opinions. I understand there are various sects among the churches that disagree with one another, That is not what I'm talking about though.
The Bible was not complete by canonization or declaring the writings holy until after it was completed sometime around the 1st century of the common era if I recall. The writings and teachings of that God (the one in the Bible) are written and preserved. And spoken about. Other gods are mentioned, so it's not like the Jews were not aware of other gods around them.
The Bible was not complete by canonization or declaring the writings holy until after it was completed sometime around the 1st century of the common era if I recall. The writings and teachings of that God (the one in the Bible) are written and preserved. And spoken about. Other gods are mentioned, so it's not like the Jews were not aware of other gods around them.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Believe me when I say that I am sorry to hear of the abuse you received. I believe (can't say know here) without doubt that God can overcome this, although the scars will remain until God removes them. And I BELIEVE He will in His time. I look forward to that. SGod will remove all tears of sorrow from our eyes. (Revelation 21:1-5) I believe that. It's the best news (information) I have ever heard. As you know, that's me and not everyone though.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
The "author" of it?
ElishaElijah
Return
So when someone hears something you don’t they are making an error? Interesting…Maybe get a hearing aid
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
It is how one reacts to those supposed voices that determines if one is making an error or not.
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ElishaElijah
Return
If a deaf person told you you’re in error because you say you can hear, you’d say they were in error not you.
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Thank you. If someone committed a crime, but the planted all sorts of false evidence to make it look as if not crime at all happened where the crime occurred, is that some sort of lying?
Subduction Zone
Veteran Member
Let's try to be realistic.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
I will certainly acknowledge that I made a grave mistake in believing in God and waiting to "hear" from him in my life, only to end up disappointed and depressed because nothing ever happened. I genuinely devoted my life to God through prayer, worship, ministries, evangelism, and Bible study, only to end up heartbroken and disillusioned after years of disappointment and unanswered prayers. I didn't feel the presence of God as other Christians claimed to, nor did I feel any peace in my life as other Christians claimed to feel in theirs. On the contrary, I felt confused, angry, and hopeless. I was so miserable.
As I explained in my prior post, I played church in the hope that I would start to feel something—anything that indicated to me that God is real and that he cares about me. And as I previously stated, I didn't feel peace and joy in my life until after I renounced my belief in God and left Christianity. I finally experienced peace and freedom from emotional bondage. I never felt either one during all the years I was a Christian, despite years of sincere prayer, reading and studying the Bible, genuine devotion to serving God, serving God in church ministries, and as a street preacher and evangelism team leader. I merely went through the motions and played church. I appeared to be a joyful Christian on the outside, but on the inside, I was bereft of hope, joy, and inner peace. I was hurting and suffering, and no one knew about my misery other than my husband. I'm not exaggerating when I say that being a Christian was a nightmare for me. I'm so relieved to be free of it, and I have no desire whatsoever to return to it. Abandoning my Christian faith has been liberating.
That’s like asking… “If the prices of eggs in China are $8 a dozen, is it a crime to have a pen?
WOW! Do you have to be an atheist to come up with these hairball ideas? Or is one born that way? And you want me to understand logic?
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With you, it would take a miracle from God. I will be praying for you.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
In my opinion, being realistic means admitting that I feel as if I wasted the majority of my life believing in God and feeling quite foolish for it.
Sgt. Pepper
All you need is love.
That’s like asking… “If the prices of eggs in China are $8 a dozen, is it a crime to have a pen?
WOW! Do you have to be an atheist to come up with these hairball ideas? Or is one born that way? And you want me to understand logic?
I'd think that a pastor would know better than to post sarcastic remarks like these and would want to set a better example for others to follow.
This sounds like faux piety to me. Perhaps you should concentrate more on loving your neighbor (in this case, @Subduction Zone) as yourself and treating him the way you'd like for him to treat you. I think it's sad that a pastor has to be reminded of these basic biblical teachings, whether online or in person.