SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Why didn't you quote the post in it's entirety, in your response?
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By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...
- Thread starter YoursTrue
- Start date
Those that take themselves or their beliefs too seriously.
Well, yes. My prejudices are that women are real people with their own desires and goals and those don't have to be subservient to any man. That is why I find the Biblical morality to be horrid.
No, I don't like it because it is denigrating to women. I find the same faults with the Koran.
This is one of the many reasons I find the Bible to be a very poor source of morality. In fact, it fails in some of the basic moral values: those of respect for others and recognition that others have goals not including you.
I think he is claiming that my view of it as horrid is based on my prejudices.
From my perspective, this is a perfect example of how religious belief can lead to immorality by making the belief system more important than actual people.
ElishaElijah
Return
You seem to take your beliefs too seriously
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
"Now this is eternal life: that they know you, the only true God, and Jesus Christ, whom you have sent." John 17:3.
ElishaElijah
Return
Well my faith is based on 2 things…Love God with all your heart, mind, soul and strength and the second to love your neighbor as yourself. So, yes my relationship to God is first, His love for humanity caused Him to give His life for them so again, your prejudice and views about the Bible are faulty.
”Therefore, if anyone is in Christ, he is a new creation. The old has passed away; behold, the new has come. All this is from God, who through Christ reconciled us to himself and gave us the ministry of reconciliation; that is, in Christ God was reconciling the world to himself, not counting their trespasses against them, and entrusting to us the message of reconciliation. Therefore, we are ambassadors for Christ, God making his appeal through us. We implore you on behalf of Christ, be reconciled to God. For our sake he made him to be sin who knew no sin, so that in him we might become the righteousness of God.“
2 Corinthians 5:17-21 ESV
The vows I took were to show the world the relationship I have with my wife and to get the benefits of marriage in this secular society.
There are a number of purposes: the most important is to let the wider society know that we are a couple.
Nope, it doesn't mean that. We *all* share aspects of ourselves with people outside of our primary relationship. For example, i can go play tennis with someone who is not my wife. That doesn't reduce either people to merely property.
If I have sex with someone other than my wife (with her permission, of course), that no more reduced her to property than playing tennis with someone else does. The 'sacred' part of a relationship is the trust that is shared. But that does NOT require monogamy (although it can if the vows are made that way). Also 'sacred' is the mutual respect that comes from shared values, shared goals, and a desire for each to be fulfilled in their lives.
I don't expect you to understand because you have been trained to see women as property and to only see limited goals as valid. That is your right, of course, but I do feel sorry for you. As I see it, you have limited yourself unnecessarily.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
Who said she can't be influential? The fact remains that IF a woman gives birth and the man runs away or is not capable of supplying the needs to sustain a suitable existence -- then what?
And, like I said, this is exactly the reason many religious based moral systems are actually deeply immoral.
The whole concept of sin is merely one so that priests can control people.
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
Ah, yes. Those terrible prejudices of viewing all humans as equals. Yuck!
Couldn't agree more.
Why? Because I question yours? Because I value people over imaginary fiends? Because I think that women should have full rights equal to those of men?
SkepticThinker
Veteran Member
I'd love some elaboration on that.
ElishaElijah
Return
What is your morality based on? Does your morality change with time and society?
And if she is married and the man dies? How is that any different?
Once again, the woman should be able to get a good paying job and be able to support herself if need be. If the woman wants to be in a partnership to raise the child, that is a good thing. But nothing says that partnership needs to be with a man.
My morality is based on human dignity. As we learn more about what leads to that, the specifics can change.
But notice that religious morality changes as well. Slavery is no longer seen as appropriate, even among religious believers.
ElishaElijah
Return
Read the posts, I don’t see any room for any other view or consideration.
YoursTrue
Faith-confidence in what we hope for (Hebrews 11)
I did not ever hear in church what the Bible says about fornicators and adulterers among other things.
(1 Corinthians 6)
"Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived: neither the sexually immoral, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor men who practice homosexuality,c 10nor thieves, nor the greedy, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers will inherit the kingdom of God. 11And such were some of you. But you were washed, you were sanctified, you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and by the Spirit of our God."
But that doesn't matter as to whether I heard it or not. Because I learned that is what the Bible says.
ElishaElijah
Return
As a Christian I believe these Scriptures to be true:
”But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.“
Galatians 5:16-26 ESV
”But I say, walk by the Spirit, and you will not gratify the desires of the flesh. For the desires of the flesh are against the Spirit, and the desires of the Spirit are against the flesh, for these are opposed to each other, to keep you from doing the things you want to do. But if you are led by the Spirit, you are not under the law. Now the works of the flesh are evident: sexual immorality, impurity, sensuality, idolatry, sorcery, enmity, strife, jealousy, fits of anger, rivalries, dissensions, divisions, envy, drunkenness, orgies, and things like these. I warn you, as I warned you before, that those who do such things will not inherit the kingdom of God. But the fruit of the Spirit is love, joy, peace, patience, kindness, goodness, faithfulness, gentleness, self-control; against such things there is no law. And those who belong to Christ Jesus have crucified the flesh with its passions and desires. If we live by the Spirit, let us also keep in step with the Spirit. Let us not become conceited, provoking one another, envying one another.“
Galatians 5:16-26 ESV