By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[blü 2]

Well, the change happens and you have your idea as well, all of the sudden after years of being trapped in addiction we cry out to God and He answers, delivers us and you say it was what? We can think our way out of it? Boy that would be something

Well, the first avenue of enquiry might be to examine it as a psychological phenomenon, and see what lessons might be found capable of helping others.

But I can appreciate that it may have a personal benefit for you.

 

[Polymath257]

Well, the change happens and you have your idea as well, all of the sudden after years of being trapped in addiction we cry out to God and He answers, delivers us and you say it was what? We can think our way out of it? Boy that would be something

Yes, exactly. Like we can do in many other cases.

Test trials are done for pharmaceuticals. Those that pass the scientific tests of evaluating effectiveness are approved by authorities. Yet -- sometimes they work in the tests, and sometimes they don't. And sometimes placebos are just as effective as the drug. I believe our bodies are too amazing to have come about without the workings (I'm going to use the word mechanisms) coming from a higher source. That's the way I see it now. How that relates to God to various individuals is a personal experience or decision. So -- my experience is obviously not everybody's experience. In other words, however a person reacts to an unobserved event by others, it is still personal.

Absolutely. And that is why it is *opinion* and not *truth*.

 

[YoursTrue]

Yes, exactly. Like we can do in many other cases.

Absolutely. And that is why it is *opinion* and not *truth*.

So if I go to a doctor and I get treatment for a life threatening disease and I follow his advice and I get better -- then I got better. But then the question comes up, what's better?

 

[ElishaElijah]

So if I go to a doctor and I get treatment for a life threatening disease and I follow his advice and I get better -- then I got better. But then the question comes up, what's better?

One thing that’s very clear here is that only God can change a persons heart.

 

[YoursTrue]

I was anti-religious for a while after I renounced my Christian faith because of all the years of negativity I experienced when I was a Christian. I was still feeling it when I first joined RF, but being part of this diverse online community had a significant impact on my decision to practice Wicca and druidry.

But beforehand, I had a short-lived interest in the Baha'i Faith after reading some posts about it, but upon further observation, I could see that its beliefs are very similar to those of Christianity, so I rejected it. It wasn't long after this that I came across some posts about Wicca and other pagan religions that piqued my interest. So I started to research Wicca, and I felt drawn to it. To make a long story short, being a Wiccan has been a very positive experience for me spiritually, and it has helped me heal emotionally. It inspired me to look into other pagan religions, which led me to polytheism and eventually to druidry. I practice spiritualism as well, but my decision was influenced by the spiritual guidance and personal example of my close friend and mentor.

I have no qualms in saying that I'm grateful to be free from what I consider to be the entrapment of Christianity because it was a dreadful way of life for me. I truly believe that being a Christian can be detrimental to a person's mental health and emotional well-being. It certainly was for mine, and it was for the many other former Christians I know. To be quite honest, renouncing my Christian faith and belief in God has brought me a lot of comfort because I am no longer scared of what I believe to be the fearmongering tactics of Christianity, such as being afraid and feeling shame for allegedly sinning against God, fear of his wrath, and fear of going to hell. I can say without a second thought that being a Christian was a living nightmare for me, whereas being a Wiccan and druid has been liberating and a very positive experience. It's better for my mental health and emotional well-being. My life is far less stressful than it was when I was a Christian. I take it one day at a time, and I'm not gung-ho about Wicca, druidry, or spiritualism. I keep my beliefs in perspective.

It was a gradual process of detoxing from a lifetime of Christian indoctrination, but I've finally experienced inner peace in my life, which is something I never experienced as a Christian. I learned to let go of the fears I had, such as fearing God, fearing sinning against God, and my fear of going to hell. And once I did that, my mental health and emotional well-being significantly improved. I was deeply indoctrinated in Christianity, so it was difficult for me to be freed of it. I felt trapped in it, so I was shackled in emotional bondage to it for the majority of my life. Christianity was a prison for me. I felt like I was imprisoned, but only my prison cell door was always open, and it took me a long time to realize that I could leave whenever I wanted to. I never once felt "freedom in Christ" or genuine peace in my life as a Christian, as other Christians claimed to experience in theirs. So I freed myself from the indoctrination that I had been subjected to after spending the majority of my life trapped in it. I feel no more shame for allegedly sinning against God or for allowing myself to be guilt-tripped by Christians accusing me of being a sinner, and I no longer fear any alleged wrath or judgment from God or fear going to hell.

As a Wiccan and druid, I don't feel pressured to obey or appease any particular god, nor do I feel threatened by any god. Other than saving myself from abuse when I was a teenager, I cannot think of anything more empowering than finally understanding that I don't have to believe in the biblical God or follow Christianity or any other deity or religion in order to feel emotionally whole or make moral decisions in my life. I maintain a rational perspective on my present spiritual beliefs so as to avoid repeating these mistakes. I'm well aware of the potential emotional downfalls I could face from overly trusting in spiritual beliefs or in any god (or other deities). My beliefs are important to me, but not to the extent that I rely on them or that I feel like I can't make a moral decision without them. I don't regret my decision to renounce my belief in God and faith in Jesus, as well as leaving Christianity, but I wish that I had found the strength to do so years ago rather than holding onto the false hope and trust that I had in God. It would have been much better for me if I had.

As I have studied about what hell and death are, I have reason to believe the threat of burning forever in conscious torment in not something from God.

 

[Subduction Zone]

That’s like saying I don’t know my wife, a ridiculous comment on your part.

No it is not. You can introduce your wife to your friends and acquaintances You can take pictures and videos of her. You can record her voice. You could even get her DNA and if you had children together show that they were both of yours.

You cannot come even close to doing that with your god.

 

[Subduction Zone]

Who is “we” legion?

Oh my! How rude. "We" would be3 people that can reason rationally.

 

[ElishaElijah]

No it is not. You can introduce your wife to your friends and acquaintances You can take pictures and videos of her. You can record her voice. You could even get her DNA and if you had children together show that they were both of yours.

You cannot come even close to doing that with your god.

Not today for physical things but the spiritual for sure I can and do all those things. This weekend more souls were saved, delivered from witchcraft and healed. Our meetings are awesome only because God is in our midst like He said He would be. The day is coming when yes we will be face to face before the Lord, then you won’t be talking like you are.

 

[ElishaElijah]

Oh my! How rude. "We" would be3 people that can reason rationally.

I think it’s legit question when someone says we know and only one person is speaking. How many are you? A legion or just a few?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Not today for physical things but the spiritual for sure I can and do all those things. This weekend more souls were saved, delivered from witchcraft and healed. Our meetings are awesome only because God is in our midst like He said He would be. The day is coming when yes we will be face to face before the Lord, then you won’t be talking like you are.

How would you prove that? Would you believe that same thing if a Muslim said it? If not then why should anyone believe you? Once again, you have mere belief. You do not have knowledge.

 

[Subduction Zone]

I think it’s legit question when someone says we know and only one person is speaking. How many are you? A legion or just a few?

And I gave you a legitimate answer.

 

[ElishaElijah]

How would you prove that? Would you believe that same thing if a Muslim said it? If not then why should anyone believe you? Once again, you have mere belief. You do not have knowledge.

I’m not a Muslim, have talked to many who have a
form of religion but no relationship with God as a Father with a son like I do, and is available to everyone through Jesus Christ.

 

[ElishaElijah]

And I gave you a legitimate answer.

Ok so what’s the problem? Are you 3 people now

 

[Subduction Zone]

I’m not a Muslim, have talked to many who have a
form of religion but no relationship with God as a Father with a son like I do, and is available to everyone through Jesus Christ.

So what? They have their own rules for what it takes to be saved. You just gave a weak cop out.


Why are you so afraid to reason rationally?

 

[Subduction Zone]

Ok so what’s the problem? Are you 3 people now

I see, you still can't be polite. Naughty, naughty.

 

[ElishaElijah]

So what? They have their own rules for what it takes to be saved. You just gave a weak cop out.


Why are you so afraid to reason rationally?

It’s the truth and the way it is, simple and sorry you can’t grasp what I’m saying.

 

[ElishaElijah]

I see, you still can't be polite. Naughty, naughty.

You’re coming across as immature now, but you said you were 3 people now. I believe you

 

[Subduction Zone]

It’s the truth and the way it is, simple and sorry you can’t grasp what I’m saying.

No, that is just an unsupported opinion. And it is not very reliable. The extremists of almost all religions feel the same way you do about their own religions. None of them can show that they are any more valid than others.

 

[Subduction Zone]

You’re coming across as immature now, but you said you were 3 people now. I believe you

No, you are just being very naughty. How can people have a polite conversation when the one has to rely on insults?

 

[F1fan]

Test trials are done for pharmaceuticals. Those that pass the scientific tests of evaluating effectiveness are approved by authorities. Yet -- sometimes they work in the tests, and sometimes they don't. And sometimes placebos are just as effective as the drug. I believe our bodies are too amazing to have come about without the workings (I'm going to use the word mechanisms) coming from a higher source.

So the cancers that children (and even adults) develop come from this higher source. Why is that?

That's the way I see it now.

Who told you to see it that way versus a factual understanding (science)?

How that relates to God to various individuals is a personal experience or decision.

No God is known to exist. It is only believed through religious traditions that influence members of societies. So God isn't relevant to knowledge.

So -- my experience is obviously not everybody's experience. In other words, however a person reacts to an unobserved event by others, it is still personal.

At least you admit your beliefs are due to life experience and not fact-based knowledge.