By the way -- if you claim to be a Christian...

[YoursTrue]

As written?, no. The writers used all the writing skills developed over the centuries, including myth, folklore, parables etc,

When do you believe writing was invented? or, as you say, developed?
But thank you for saying you don't believe what is written about Christ in the Bible. You are not alone in that concept, even among those who go to church, which I don't suppose you do though.

 

[2ndpillar]

As I said before, I enjoy more freedoms than many Americans currently do, unfortunately.

Having the opportunity to kill the unborn is not universally considered freedom. As one does to others, shall be done to them. I doubt if Canadians are escaping the coming judgment with respect to their actions.

 

[2ndpillar]

So what? Jesus was a Jew who was rejected by the Jewish people, and still is.

Yeshua, the seed of David, is to rule over the combined house of Judah and Israel/Ephraim (Ezekiel 37), after they confess their transgressions (acknowledge their guilt) (Hosea 5:15-6:2 & Hosea 3:5).

 

[2ndpillar]

I don't have a boulder to push since God already pushed that boulder when He sent Baha'u'llah.

Baha'u'llah fulfilled all the Bible prophecies for the return of Christ.
All that is explained in the book Thief in the Night by William Sears.

The return of the son of man, Yeshua, the seed of David, follows "immediately after the tribulation" (Mt 24:29) and winds up with Judah and Ephraim/Israel being reunited on the land given to Jacob/Israel under the rule of David (Ezekiel 37). At that time, the son of man, "the Word of God" will rule the nation/Gentiles with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:13-15) whereupon the birds will eat the flesh of kings (Rev 19:17-18). Whereas Baha is an unknown caricature of a man of Muslim roots, who was hunted down by other Muslims. whose followers proclaim "peace" as the sky continues to fall. I don't know, I kind of see a problem with your narrative.

 

[pearl]

When do you believe writing was invented? or, as you say, developed?
But thank you for saying you don't believe what is written about Christ in the Bible. You are not alone in that concept, even among those who go to church, which I don't suppose you do though.

I fully believe in Jesus, historical and risen, and for Christians, the Messiah. But all the writing about Him came long after the oral tradition which the
writers already experienced Him as the crucified and risen. What we read in the Gospels is written by the next generation, most Apostles long dead.
Many believe there existed the "Q" source which it is said contains Jesus own writings, the preaching of a prophet, nothing about a messiah and the like. It can be, by some scholars, that the identity of the source is found in Mt and LK.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Actually, you don't have free speech rights.

LOL I most certainly do.

If you read the fine print, your free speech has "reasonable" limitations that can be imposed by the government.

No kidding. I can't use my speech to discriminate against people. I can't use my speech to incite violence against people. I can't use my speech to yell "Fire" in a crowded movie theatre in which there is no fire.
Same goes for you.

There is no "reasonable" government of Canada at this time. Even with Trudeau vanquished, you will still have his supporters living in the woodwork.

Hyperbole.

Freedom of expression in Canada is protected as a "fundamental freedom" by section 2 of the Canadian Charter of Rights and Freedoms; however, in practice the Charter permits the government to enforce "reasonable" limits censoring speech.

Of course free speech has limitations. It does in the US as well. See above.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Having the opportunity to kill the unborn is not universally considered freedom. As one does to others, shall be done to them

Bodily autonomy certainly is a freedom I fully enjoy.
Unlike many American women at this point, unfortunately.

. I doubt if Canadians are escaping the coming judgment with respect to their actions.

LOL

 

[2ndpillar]

No, the culture is not the only reason for the low incidence of gun deaths. It is also the gun laws.

Culture is the main reason for murder rates. Look at St. Louis, Baltimore, or Chicago. It is black on black crime, which is built on lack of education, fatherless families, Progressive religions, and lack of proper values. Blacks have around 13% of the population, but lead in the number of murders, with 90% being black on black. The highest murder rates worldwide per 100,000 is Mexico and Columbia, whereas Mexico has strict gun laws, on the same order as the UK. The only ones with guns are the bad guys. https://www.usnews.com/news/articles/2016-09-29/race-and-homicide-in-america-by-the-numbers

Murder Rate by Country 2024

worldpopulationreview.com

 

[2ndpillar]

Bodily autonomy certainly is a freedom I fully enjoy.
Unlike many American women at this point, unfortunately.

Apparently, stealing cars is a freedom in Canada, but not one everyone approves of having their car stolen.

Car Theft In Canada - Search News

News from world, national, and local news sources, organized to give you in-depth news coverage of sports, entertainment, business, politics, weather, and more.

www.bing.com

Justice minister's government car stolen for the third time in as many years

Politicians and law enforcement officials are confronting a rising number of auto thefts — and it appears that the office of Canada's justice minister is also a popular target for thieves.Justice Minister Arif Virani's government-owned Toyota Highlander XLE was stolen last November but was later...

ca.news.yahoo.com

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeshua, the seed of David, is to rule over the combined house of Judah and Israel/Ephraim (Ezekiel 37), after they confess their transgressions (acknowledge their guilt) (Hosea 5:15-6:2 & Hosea 3:5).

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

John 14:19 Yet a little while, and the world seeth me no more; but ye see me: because I live, ye shall live also.

John 16:10 Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Jesus never claimed to be a king, and Jesus never said He was coming back to judge the earth and establish an earthly Kingdom

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

no more

1. nothing further.
   "there was no more to be said about it"
2. no further.
   "you must have some soup, but no more wine"
3. exist no longer.
   "the patch of ground was overgrown and the hut was no more"
4. never again.
   "mention his name no more to me"
5. neither.
   "I had no complaints and no more did Tom"

Definitions from Oxford Languages

 

[Trailblazer]

The return of the son of man, Yeshua, the seed of David, follows "immediately after the tribulation" (Mt 24:29) and winds up with Judah and Ephraim/Israel being reunited on the land given to Jacob/Israel under the rule of David (Ezekiel 37). At that time, the son of man, "the Word of God" will rule the nation/Gentiles with a rod of iron (Revelation 19:13-15) whereupon the birds will eat the flesh of kings (Rev 19:17-18). Whereas Baha is an unknown caricature of a man of Muslim roots, who was hunted down by other Muslims. whose followers proclaim "peace" as the sky continues to fall. I don't know, I kind of see a problem with your narrative.

Since Jesus never said He was going to return to this world but rather said He was NO MORE in the world and His work was FINISHED here I see a problem with your narrative.

 

[metis]

That is a moot point. Compare/contrast gun laws in Japan to gun laws in the United States.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

• Japan is a country of more than 127 million people, but it rarely sees more than 10 gun deaths a year.
• Culture is one reason for the low rate, but gun control is a major one, too.
• Japan has a long list of tests that applicants must pass before gaining access to a small pool of guns.

Japan has almost completely eliminated gun deaths — here's how

The weapons law of Japan begins by stating "No one shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords", and very few exceptions are allowed. Citizens are permitted to possess firearms for hunting and sport shooting, but only after submitting to a lengthy licensing procedure.

Overview of gun laws by nation - Wikipedia

“The only guns that Japanese citizens can legally buy and use are shotguns and air rifles, and it’s not easy to do. The process is detailed in David Kopel’s landmark study on Japanese gun control, published in the 1993 Asia Pacific Law Review, still cited as current. (Kopel, no left-wing loony, is a member of the National Rifle Association and once wrote in National Review that looser gun control laws could have stopped Adolf Hitler.)

To get a gun in Japan, first, you have to attend an all-day class and pass a written test, which are held only once per month. You also must take and pass a shooting range class. Then, head over to a hospital for a mental test and drug test (Japan is unusual in that potential gun owners must affirmatively prove their mental fitness), which you’ll file with the police. Finally, pass a rigorous background check for any criminal record or association with criminal or extremist groups, and you will be the proud new owner of your shotgun or air rifle. Just don’t forget to provide police with documentation on the specific location of the gun in your home, as well as the ammo, both of which must be locked and stored separately. And remember to have the police inspect the gun once per year and to re-take the class and exam every three years.

Even the most basic framework of Japan’s approach to gun ownership is almost the polar opposite of America’s. U.S. gun law begins with the second amendment's affirmation of the “right of the people to keep and bear arms” and narrows it down from there. Japanese law, however, starts with the 1958 act stating that “No person shall possess a firearm or firearms or a sword or swords,” later adding a few exceptions. In other words, American law is designed to enshrine access to guns, while Japan starts with the premise of forbidding it.”

From: A Land Without Guns: How Japan Has Virtually Eliminated Shooting Deaths

This policy is very similar to the Laws of the Baha’i Faith:

173. It hath been forbidden you to carry arms unless essential # 159

Bahá’u’lláh confirms an injunction contained in the Bayán which makes it unlawful to carry arms, unless it is necessary to do so. With regard to circumstances under which the bearing of arms might be “essential” for an individual, ‘Abdu’l-Bahá gives permission to a believer for self-protection in a dangerous environment. Shoghi Effendi in a letter written on his behalf has also indicated that, in an emergency, when there is no legal force at hand to appeal to, a Bahá’í is justified in defending his life. There are a number of other situations in which weapons are needed and can be legitimately used; for instance, in countries where people hunt for their food and clothing, and in such sports as archery, marksmanship, and fencing.
The Kitáb-i-Aqdas, pp. 240-241

Exactly! And it seems that Japan is considerably more "Christian" than we here in the States.

 

[SkepticThinker]

Apparently, stealing cars is a freedom in Canada, but not one everyone approves of having their car stolen.

Car Theft In Canada - Search News

News from world, national, and local news sources, organized to give you in-depth news coverage of sports, entertainment, business, politics, weather, and more.

www.bing.com

Justice minister's government car stolen for the third time in as many years

Politicians and law enforcement officials are confronting a rising number of auto thefts — and it appears that the office of Canada's justice minister is also a popular target for thieves.Justice Minister Arif Virani's government-owned Toyota Highlander XLE was stolen last November but was later...

ca.news.yahoo.com

See, now this is a perfect example of you completely ignoring the content of my post, and Gish Galloping off into some other unrelated thing.

 

[2ndpillar]

See, now this is a perfect example of you completely ignoring the content of my post, and Gish Galloping off into some other unrelated thing.

Well, if you had paid closer attention, you would have noticed I was comparing the wickedness of killing children, which you seem to approve, with the wickedness of stealing cars in Canada, which lax Canadian prosecutors seem to also approve by letting car thieves run wild, and apparently other Progressives, at least until they get their cars stolen.

 

[2ndpillar]

Jesus never promised to return to earth, not once in the New Testament. Jesus said His work was finished here and He was no more in the world. That means that the return of Christ has to be another Person.

Yeshua referred to himself as the "son of man" (Matthew 13:37-38). Yeshua said the "son of man" would return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), at which time the "elect" would be "gathered from "one end of the earth to the other" (Matthew 13:40-43). Before the "elect" are "gathered", "first" the "tares" are to be "gathered" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30). None of that has happened as of 5:37 P.M. on Wednesday, the 3rd day of April 2024.

 

[2ndpillar]

Exactly! And it seems that Japan is considerably more "Christian" than we here in the States.

Japan is mostly Shinto (90%), Buddhist, and Confucianism. Japanese religion | Beliefs, Percentage, Shinto, Buddhism, & Pie Chart
Christians make up around 67% of U.S. citizens. Your definition of "Christian" may be a bit skewed. Christianity percentage in the US - Bing

 

[2ndpillar]

These two verses in John 18 completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it, and they fit perfectly together with John 17:4 and John 17:11. Jesus came into this world to bear witness unto the truth about God. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to come back to this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

You have failed to read the "Law and the prophets" for which Yeshua came to "fulfill". They have not been "fulfilled" as of this time. Per Hosea 5:15, "I will go to my place" (heaven) "until" "they" (Judah and Ephraim/Israel) "acknowledge their guilt". "He will revive us after two days (2000 years) Hosea 6:2. With respect to the death of Herod, Yeshua was born around 4 to 6 BC, and leaving around 33 years later, making the return around 2029 AD or later. According to Psalms 110:1, the Lord is sitting at the right hand of the LORD until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. As Baha, and the other false prophets, enemies of Truth, are still unformed footstools, the Lord remains in heaven.

 

[2ndpillar]

I fully believe in Jesus, historical and risen, and for Christians, the Messiah. But all the writing about Him came long after the oral tradition which the
writers already experienced Him as the crucified and risen. What we read in the Gospels is written by the next generation, most Apostles long dead.
Many believe there existed the "Q" source which it is said contains Jesus own writings, the preaching of a prophet, nothing about a messiah and the like. It can be, by some scholars, that the identity of the source is found in Mt and LK.

Matthew is described within Matthew as the last apostle chosen, and who was a tax collector, which means he could read and write. Luke was an unknown author, who according to Luke 1:1, witnessed nothing, and was apparently a comrade of the false prophet Paul. Yeshua came to be a light to the Law and the prophets. You still have the Law and the prophets available.

 

[Trailblazer]

Yeshua referred to himself as the "son of man" (Matthew 13:37-38). Yeshua said the "son of man" would return "immediately after the tribulation" (Matthew 24:29-31), at which time the "elect" would be "gathered from "one end of the earth to the other" (Matthew 13:40-43). Before the "elect" are "gathered", "first" the "tares" are to be "gathered" at the "end of the age" (Matthew 13:30). None of that has happened as of 5:37 P.M. on Wednesday, the 3rd day of April 2024.

All this is happening right now, the wheat is being separated from the tares.

Jesus was the son of man but He was not the son of man who would come in the clouds.

Who is the Son of man who will come in the clouds of heaven?

Baha’u’llah was the Son of man who came in the clouds because He was the return of Christ.

To paraphrase Baha’u’llah, Son of man coming on the clouds means that the return of the Christ Spirit will appear in the form of another human being, which Baha’is call a Manifestation of God. The term “clouds” as used in the Bible means those things that are contrary to the ways and desires of men. Just like the physical clouds prevent the eyes of men from beholding the sun, these things hindered men from recognizing the return of Christ.

In other words, the judgment of most people was clouded when Christ returned and it is still clouded for most people.

One thing that clouds the judgment of Christians is their desire for the same Jesus to return to earth.

Son of man coming in the clouds of heaven means that the return of the Christ Spirit promised in the Bible will be made manifest from the heaven of the will of God, and will appear in the form of a human being. The term “heaven” means loftiness and exaltation. Although they were delivered from the womb of their mother, Manifestations of God have in reality descended from the heaven of the will of God. Though dwelling on this earth, their true habitations are the realms above. While walking among mortals on earth, they soar in the heaven of the divine presence.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have failed to read the "Law and the prophets" for which Yeshua came to "fulfill". They have not been "fulfilled" as of this time. Per Hosea 5:15, "I will go to my place" (heaven) "until" "they" (Judah and Ephraim/Israel) "acknowledge their guilt". "He will revive us after two days (2000 years) Hosea 6:2. With respect to the death of Herod, Yeshua was born around 4 to 6 BC, and leaving around 33 years later, making the return around 2029 AD or later. According to Psalms 110:1, the Lord is sitting at the right hand of the LORD until his enemies are made a footstool for his feet. As Baha, and the other false prophets, enemies of Truth, are still unformed footstools, the Lord remains in heaven.

There are no verses in the New Testament where Jesus said He is going to return to this world, only verses where Jesus said that His work was finished here and He was not going to return to this world (John 14:19, John 17:11, John 17:4, John 19:30).

Following is a brief synopsis of what I believe about the return of Christ.

The Holy Spirit proceeds only from God. The Holy Spirit was sent by God to Jesus and descended upon Jesus as a Dove. The Holy Spirit was sent by God to Baha’u’llah and descended upon Baha’u’llah as a Maiden in the Black Pit prison in 1852 AD. As I recall, the angel Gabriel spoke to Muhammad, and I believe that was God speaking through the Holy Spirit.

Having received the Holy Spirit from God, both Jesus and Baha’u’llah brought the Holy Spirit to humanity. The Comforter and Spirit of truth are just titles for the man who brings the Holy Spirit. Jesus was a Comforter and Baha'u'llah was another Comforter who taught all things and testified of Jesus.

John 14:16 And I will pray the Father, and he shall give you another Comforter, that he may abide with you for ever;

Jesus promised to send the Comforter and the Spirit of truth and Jesus said what he would do when he came.

John 14:26 But the Comforter, which is the Holy Ghost, whom the Father will send in my name, he shall teach you all things, and bring all things to your remembrance, whatsoever I have said unto you.

John 15:26 But when the Comforter is come, whom I will send unto you from the Father, even the Spirit of truth, which proceedeth from the Father, he shall testify of me:

John 16:7 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you.

John 16:7-11 Nevertheless I tell you the truth; It is expedient for you that I go away: for if I go not away, the Comforter will not come unto you; but if I depart, I will send him unto you. And when he is come, he will reprove the world of sin, and of righteousness, and of judgment: Of sin, because they believe not on me; Of righteousness, because I go to my Father, and ye see me no more; Of judgment, because the prince of this world is judged.

John 16:12-14 I have yet many things to say unto you, but ye cannot bear them now. Howbeit when he, the Spirit of truth, is come, he will guide you into all truth: for he shall not speak of himself; but whatsoever he shall hear, that shall he speak: and he will shew you things to come. He shall glorify me: for he shall receive of mine, and shall shew it unto you.

One of the various proofs that Baha'u'llah was the Comforter and the Spirit of truth is that Baha’u’llah did EXACTLY what Jesus said the Comforter and Spirit of truth would do. Referring to Jesus as the Son of Man, Baha’u’llah testified of Jesus and glorified Jesus.

“Know thou that when the Son of Man yielded up His breath to God, the whole creation wept with a great weeping. By sacrificing Himself, however, a fresh capacity was infused into all created things. Its evidences, as witnessed in all the peoples of the earth, are now manifest before thee. The deepest wisdom which the sages have uttered, the profoundest learning which any mind hath unfolded, the arts which the ablest hands have produced, the influence exerted by the most potent of rulers, are but manifestations of the quickening power released by His transcendent, His all-pervasive, and resplendent Spirit.

We testify that when He came into the world, He shed the splendor of His glory upon all created things. Through Him the leper recovered from the leprosy of perversity and ignorance. Through Him, the unchaste and wayward were healed. Through His power, born of Almighty God, the eyes of the blind were opened, and the soul of the sinner sanctified.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 85-86