Can a Fictional Story Have a Connection to Reality?

[Dan From Smithville]

The source of creation for leprechauns? Maybe it's a machine to make the magic work?

It could be suppose. I was thinking of something a little more practical. All the inventions of modern life and even those of ancient societies existed as ideas or fiction before they were rendered to practice.

A stone tool may have just been an observation that some ancient started toying with before it was assembled in reality.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

The source of creation for leprechauns? Maybe it's a machine to make the magic work?

I see leprechauns and magic as unreal. Some do not. From my perspective, even the mythology of leprechauns and magic must have had some connection to reality in the kernel of truth from which they sprang.

Gremlins is a term used to describe fictional beasties that were the source of problems for early aviators. It seems they invented the term as a cause for the very real problems they were experiencing flying those early airplanes. I doubt they really believed some mythical creature was actually at the heart of those problems.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

I’m not confused about any of this.

Are you seeking to show that if even fiction has a connection to reality, then belief could too? Would that mean that all belief, even those that others subscribe to, but you do not, could be anchored to reality and thus describe some real person, being or event?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Again, they may talk about stars that are real.

The story is fiction. That means it is 'not real'.

Morality is a type of idea and is real in that sense, as are emotions and thoughts.

But morality does not exist outside of human minds, just like fictional characters do not exist outside of human minds.

We agree that morality is real.

Morality cannot be stripped away from a story that a human being is engaged with, even a fictional story. And any fictional story that is known, a human being is engaged with by definition.

Therefore, if it is assumed that morality is real, then there is no fictional story that isn’t real.

 

[Polymath257]

We agree that morality is real.

Morality cannot be stripped away from a story that a human being is engaged with, even a fictional story. And any fictional story that is known, a human being is engaged with by definition.

Therefore, if it is assumed that morality is real, then there is no fictional story that isn’t real.

Morality is an idea. Like all ideas it is real when it is in some mind.

That doesn't mean the content of that idea is real. It doesn't mean that the judgements are correct or good. It just means the idea is a real idea (even if it is false).

It seems to be a severe twisting of the meaning to say a fictional story is real because someone is reading it.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

We agree that morality is real.

Morality cannot be stripped away from a story that a human being is engaged with, even a fictional story. And any fictional story that is known, a human being is engaged with by definition.

Therefore, if it is assumed that morality is real, then there is no fictional story that isn’t real.

Put more simply, story cannot exist without humans and without morality. Morality is real. Every story is real.

Reality is a hierarchy. Truth is a hierarchy. Morality is a hierarchy.

 

[firedragon]

If your answer is yes, then by what means do fictional stories connect to reality?

If your answer is no, then my next question is:
Can a fictional story contain wisdom?

Lets say some people believe the Bible has fictional stories. They have missed the whole point. EVEN IF a story is fictional, the literature is there not to be sidetracked by that notion, but to take the essence of it. This is sacred history which is a genre, not history. For example, there is a story that person A was walking down the street in heavy rain, and he sees a man under a tree with nothing to cover himself with. So person A takes off his cloak and gives it to this man to cover himself.

This story could be made up. But essence is that person A was a munificent person. So the author intended to showcase his character. Thats the genre.

So if this is called a fictional story, it could connect directly to reality.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

You are not even close to being as bad as you describe or anything like I have seen.

Yet I still need an editor. Two would be better!

 

[Polymath257]

Put more simply, story cannot exist without humans and without morality. Morality is real. Every story is real.

But only real in the very limited sense that real people are thinking real thoughts. The content of those thoughts is not real.

The fact that a story is in a book is enough to make it real in this limited sense. It can still be entirely made up and fictional.

Reality is a hierarchy. Truth is a hierarchy. Morality is a hierarchy.

You need to support those statements better than you have.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Morality is an idea. Like all ideas it is real when it is in some mind.

For you, an idea only exists when in a human mind, right? So the qualification or distinction is pointless, is it not? Since the idea of morality is always in a human mind.

 

[Polymath257]

Lets say some people believe the Bible has fictional stories. They have missed the whole point. EVEN IF a story is fictional, the literature is there not to be sidetracked by that notion, but to take the essence of it. This is sacred history which is a genre, not history. For example, there is a story that person A was walking down the street in heavy rain, and he sees a man under a tree with nothing to cover himself with. So person A takes off his cloak and gives it to this man to cover himself.

This story could be made up. But essence is that person A was a munificent person. So the author intended to showcase his character. Thats the genre.

So if this is called a fictional story, it could connect directly to reality.

And if the Bible was only seen as being a type of fictional literature, there would be little trouble with it.

The problems come when people believe it describes reality.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

But only real in the very limited sense that real people are thinking real thoughts. The content of those thoughts is not real.

The fact that a story is in a book is enough to make it real in this limited sense. It can still be entirely made up and fictional.



You need to support those statements better than you have.

A made up story can never make the story not real since a story always has morality, and morality is real.

 

[Polymath257]

For you, an idea only exists when in a human mind, right? So the qualification or distinction is pointless, is it not? Since the idea of morality is always in a human mind.

Once again, an idea of a leprechaun is not a leprechaun. The idea is real, the leprechaun is not.

Morality is a set of ideas humans use to control social behavior.

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

Put more simply, story cannot exist without humans and without morality. Morality is real. Every story is real.

Reality is a hierarchy. Truth is a hierarchy. Morality is a hierarchy.

I'm not sure I see a lot of meaning, here. It appears to be bordering on a deepity.

 

[Polymath257]

A made up story can never make the story not real since a story always has morality, and morality is real.

No. The story does not have morality. It may be a story about morality, but the morality is in our minds, not in the story. if the story is fictional, the morality may be as well.

Again, this seems to be a severe twisting of the meaning of the words to get to a specific point. Why, I have no idea.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Once again, an idea of a leprechaun is not a leprechaun. The idea is real, the leprechaun is not.

Morality is a set of ideas humans use to control social behavior.

So your position is that morality is not real?

 

[Treasure Hunter]

No. The story does not have morality. It may be a story about morality, but the morality is in our minds, not in the story. if the story is fictional, the morality may be as well.

A story is always filtered through the human mind which is always filtered through a moral lens. If morality is real, then every story is filtered through what is real.

 

[Polymath257]

So your position is that morality is not real?

What do you mean when you ask?

Is it a real set of ideas? yes. Does it correspond with reality? No. Does it have truths? no.

Your question seems incredibly vague and malformed.

 

[robocop (actually)]

If your answer is yes, then by what means do fictional stories connect to reality?

If your answer is no, then my next question is:
Can a fictional story contain wisdom?

Fiction is reality too.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Put more simply, story cannot exist without humans and without morality. Morality is real. Every story is real.

Reality is a hierarchy. Truth is a hierarchy. Morality is a hierarchy.

Does every story contain morality?