Can a Fictional Story Have a Connection to Reality?

[Evangelicalhumanist]

A made up story can never make the story not real since a story always has morality, and morality is real.

Is it? Is "morality real," or is it, rather, an agreement between participants?

Consider masturbation -- moral or immoral, and when and in what circumstances? Consider lying to your grandmother about her imminent death -- moral or immoral, and why do you think so?

 

[Polymath257]

A story is always filtered through the human mind which is always filtered through a moral lens. If morality is real, then every story is filtered through what is real.

Yes, a story is always filtered through a real mind. That does not make the contents of the story real.

You seem to be very fixated on the usage of the adjective 'real'. It has several common uses that do not overlap.

Once again, the idea of the moon is not the moon. It will be a huge help if you realize the distinction.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

A story is always filtered through the human mind which is always filtered through a moral lens. If morality is real, then every story is filtered through what is real.

If this is so, then every story is run through a multitude of moral filters, since the morality of every reader or listener would be different.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

What do you mean when you ask?

Is it a real set of ideas? yes. Does it correspond with reality? No. Does it have truths? no.

Your question seems incredibly vague and malformed.

Yes, real = correspond with reality. So, morality is not real in your mind.

 

[Polymath257]

Yes, real = correspond with reality. So, morality is not real in your mind.

Right. Morality is an idea. The idea is real. The content of the idea may or may not be real.

In the case of moral ideas, the better question is whether they are *useful* or not. The reality is less important because it only relates to the idea, not to the content. Useful moral ideas lead to happier and more fulfilled people.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Yes, real = correspond with reality. So, morality is not real in your mind.

So, now we are back here again. Is correspondence with reality better? Should we strive to correspond with reality?

 

[firedragon]

And if the Bible was only seen as being a type of fictional literature, there would be little trouble with it.

The problems come when people believe it describes reality.

Thats not relevant the post. Problems or not, I was explaining the genre of the Bible.

 

[Polymath257]

So, now we are back here again. Is correspondence with reality better? Should we strive to correspond with reality?

Should is a value judgement. Ignoring reality by adopting falsehoods tends to lead to problems down the road. So, unless you are self-destructive, it is a good thing to have ideas that correspond to reality.

So, yes, I believe a correspondence with reality is 'better'.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

Should is a value judgement. Ignoring reality by adopting falsehoods tends to lead to problems down the road. So, unless you are self-destructive, it is a good thing to have ideas that correspond to reality.

So, yes, I believe a correspondence with reality is 'better'.

So morality that corresponds to reality is better, but morality does not correspond to reality. That’s your position?

 

[Polymath257]

So morality that corresponds to reality is better, but morality does not correspond to reality. That’s your position?

No, morality that is *useful* for promoting human fulfillment is better. Correspondence with reality isn't relevant (since it is limited to the fact that it is a set of ideas).

 

[Treasure Hunter]

No, morality that is *useful* for promoting human fulfillment is better. Correspondence with reality isn't relevant (since it is limited to the fact that it is a set of ideas).

You just said correspondence with reality is better. Better = more moral, no?

 

[Evangelicalhumanist]

So morality that corresponds to reality is better, but morality does not correspond to reality. That’s your position?

I've had about enough of you, until you decide that you are not Socrates, and open up a little about what's on your mind.

Remember, the Socratic method was irritating enough that the Athenians made him drink hemlock and die.

 

[Treasure Hunter]

I've had about enough of you, until you decide that you are not Socrates, and open up a little about what's on your mind.

Remember, the Socratic method was irritating enough that the Athenians made him drink hemlock and die.

Every story is real, fictional or not. A lot of you rationalists don’t know as much as you think you do. As shown in this thread.

 

[Kooky]

Yes, real = correspond with reality. So, morality is not real in your mind.

A representation is not the thing it represents, even though both are "real" in the sense that they both factually exist in some form. Take this image, for example:

Would you say that this is a pipe? Or would you say that it is an image of a pipe?
And if the latter, then is either of them "real" in the sense that you understand?

 

[The Hammer]

Every story is real, fictional or not. A lot of you rationalists don’t know as much as you think you do. As shown in this thread.

Prove it.

 

[Kooky]

Every story is real, fictional or not.

Of course. But every story is also false.

 

[Dan From Smithville]

Every story is real, fictional or not. A lot of you rationalists don’t know as much as you think you do. As shown in this thread.

I am having trouble seeing what you know or where you are going with this. It is probably me.

 

[Kooky]

Thats not relevant the post. Problems or not, I was explaining the genre of the Bible.

The Bible has no single genre. It is a collection of texts from different genres, collated because of their sacred status in Judaism and Christianity.

 

[F1fan]

If your answer is yes, then by what means do fictional stories connect to reality?

A Tale of Two Cities is set during the French Revolution, but with fictional characters. For Whom the Bell Tolls is set during the Spanish Civil War, but with fictional characters. There's connection.

If your answer is no, then my next question is:
Can a fictional story contain wisdom?

Of course. Wisdom is human.

 

[firedragon]

The Bible has no single genre. It is a collection of texts from different genres, collated because of their sacred status in Judaism and Christianity.

Okay. What are the genres other than sacred history do you get in the Bible?

Please explain. Thank you very much.