Can a Fictional Story Have a Connection to Reality?

[Polymath257]

As I’ve mentioned, I don’t share this view of a static, “objective” reality, stripped of the moral domain and unfiltered by human consciousness. Further, as I’ve been demonstrating, I don’t think that anyone else really believes this either.

Most of reality is amoral: the concept of morality simply doesn't come up when studying astronomy, for example. Nor does it come up when studying general relativity.

Morality is a social construct, not a construct about reality.

If someone agrees that the moral domain is apart of reality — that we should strive to be in accordance with reality — then they are denying this supposed static, “objective” reality.

Morality is part of our society and our way of thinking about our goals.

 

[Polymath257]

You have already answered to yourself with an insult. Thats a fallacy of relevance. An appeal to ridicule. So, that does not deserve a decent response.

I disagree. How are the two different other than the nonsense word 'sacred'?

if both are fictional and to support the power structure of the society, what is the difference?

 

[Kooky]

Do you mean a story like the story of Adam and Eve in the Garden of Eden?
I believe it is fictional but it is connected to spiritual reality.

Much like The Lord of the Rings - and I don't mean this as an insult or mockery.
Tolkien was a spiritual man and a devout Christian, after all.

 

[firedragon]

I disagree. How are the two different other than the nonsense word 'sacred'?

Appeal to ridicule. Fallacy of relevance. Maybe go to school on the subject and study a bit.

 

[KWED]

So then, for you, the unreal, on non-real, can effect reality?

Of course. Just look at Stop The Steal - and entirely fictional narrative that led to real-world events that will be recorded in history and are being dealt with by the legal system. Some people even died because of it.

 

[KWED]

Are all ideas non-real? Is morality non-real?

Morality (and all ideas) are not tangible things or observable events. They are abstract, subjective concepts that only exist in people's minds. However, the consequences of people acting according to ideas can be very real.

 

[KWED]

Appeal to ridicule. Fallacy of relevance. Maybe go to school on the subject and study a bit.

Weren't you just complaining about atheists being rude, citing fallacies incorrectly, and not debating in good faith?

 

[Polymath257]

Appeal to ridicule. Fallacy of relevance. Maybe go to school on the subject and study a bit.

I have studied a bit. Perhaps try to answer a question every once in a while?

 

[KWED]

I’ll try to speed this up.

What happens when a worse morality is real in the world? Is it better? Is it more true?

"Morality" is a subjective, abstract concept. Any judgement of any morality is coloured by the morality we have accepted. There is no objective grading of morality from "bad" to "good".

 

[firedragon]

I have studied a bit. Perhaps try to answer a question every once in a while?

Nope. Not with indecent people who use cuss words and ridicule in the pseudo question. Appeal to ridicule mate. Fallacy of relevance.

 

[PureX]

All fiction is based in reality or it would make no sense to us.

 

[Polymath257]

Nope. Not with indecent people who use cuss words and ridicule in the pseudo question. Appeal to ridicule mate. Fallacy of relevance.

I disagree. it is exactly relevant in the question of how to understand and interpret 'sacred history'. If it is a fictional form of tribal propaganda, then it should be understood in a different way than if it is truthful history.

That you see 'tribal propaganda' as an insult isn't relevant to the question.

If you have a different description of it that helps in how to interpret it, then please give it.

 

[Sand Dancer]

If your answer is yes, then by what means do fictional stories connect to reality?

If your answer is no, then my next question is:
Can a fictional story contain wisdom?

Definitely. Religious texts are a perfect example. Many things didn't really happen, but they tell us about human nature.

 

[firedragon]

I disagree. it is exactly relevant in the question of how to understand and interpret 'sacred history'. If it is a fictional form of tribal propaganda, then it should be understood in a different way than if it is truthful history.

Thats a strawman. Another logical fallacy. Please show me where I said "truthful history"?

That you see 'tribal propaganda' as an insult isn't relevant to the question.

Thats the definition of appeal to ridicule. When I say appeal to relevance that does not mean its "Irrelevant". Please prior to responding "It is exactly relevant" at least try to read up on the fallacy.

You are not asking questions. These are pseudo questions. You have already made your mind up with out any backing.

And I have already explained how sacred history behaves. Before jumping to ridicule and respond, understand whats said and if you have a question, ask it decently without appealing to ridicule.

 

[Polymath257]

Thats a strawman. Another logical fallacy. Please show me where I said "truthful history"?



Thats the definition of appeal to ridicule. When I say appeal to relevance that does not mean its "Irrelevant". Please prior to responding "It is exactly relevant" at least try to read up on the fallacy.

You are not asking questions. These are pseudo questions. You have already made your mind up with out any backing.

And I have already explained how sacred history behaves. Before jumping to ridicule and respond, understand whats said and if you have a question, ask it decently without appealing to ridicule.

Specifically, your post #67 said that those who say that the Bible has fictional stories miss the point. If that is the case, *what is the point*? if the story is fictional, it is not factual. So, it can be a nice story, but should not be taken literally of as fact. it is allegory, potentially, or a fable, or some other type of fiction.

In your post, you gave an example of a story about a man giving his coat to another man. You agreed it is fictional. So the man, in fact, did not give his coat to the other man. It was a story to tell about the one man's generosity. if so, why could not a factual story be given instead?

So, what *is* the point to the story? It is to promote a certain type of generosity in the society in which it is told. Hence, it is a form of propaganda, like Washington and the cherry tree or Lincoln walking 5 miles to return some change. Those are morality tales used to promote certain values.

 

[firedragon]

Specifically, your post #67 said that those who say that the Bible has fictional stories miss the point. If that is the case, *what is the point*? if the story is fictional, it is not factual. So, it can be a nice story, but should not be taken literally of as fact. it is allegory, potentially, or a fable, or some other type of fiction.

Read it again, and you might understand.

 

[Polymath257]

Read it again, and you might understand.

I did read it again. My understanding was given above. If I am incorrect, please clarify where I went wrong.

 

[firedragon]

I did read it again. My understanding was given above. If I am incorrect, please clarify where I went wrong.

Where you went wrong is, you have a bias already built in and you use ridicule to feel good. Thats where you went wrong. If you asked the question like a decent person who is honestly asking a question, you would have got a decent answer.

Have a good day.

 

[Sheldon]

If your answer is yes, then by what means do fictional stories connect to reality?

If your answer is no, then my next question is:
Can a fictional story contain wisdom?

Yes, because a writer may include real facts in a fictional story, For instance New York is a real place, and it is in the Spiderman movie. This doesn't make Spiderman remotely real of course.

 

[Sheldon]

Yes, this is becoming tedious, but it seems necessary. Can a fictional story set in an imaginary location with made up characters and made up events have a connection to reality?

What sort of connection? I'd have thought it trivially true that human writing must reflect human ideas.