Bunyip
pro scapegoat
I don't see your point. Theism has taught nothing about how the universe began - so why should I as an atheist have to know something that theists don't know anything about anyway?
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Can a literal Genesis creation story really hold up?
- Thread starter CG Didymus
- Start date
I don't see your point. Theism has taught nothing about how the universe began - so why should I as an atheist have to know something that theists don't know anything about anyway?
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Sorry, but I can't make sense of that sentence.
Or that sentence either I'm afraid.
What? Science is evidential, faith is not.
I,don't envy your fantasy of an afterlife. A false hope is worse than none.
Sorry, but I don't envy your relationship with an imaginary being either.
Since you asked.
The Creator God of the bible and one who resides, whose spirit resides within my soul so that I, may feel free to go to Him at any time, any place and for any conceivable reason.
One can only know Him if He resides in us.
Apart from that, one would be at a loss of His wonderful blessings.
Blessings, AJ
No so. The bible clearly states who the designer and maker is.
The beginning is with Him, be it billions of years in the making is not the point.
The point is do we want to accept His version of creation?
And if we accept it, then it has to be by faith.
I have faith in the sciences for whatever I can learn from it, but not for the beginnings of the soul of man.
The soul comprises of 3 components, 1. Body, soul and spirit.
1. Body as Eve
2. Soul as you, who you are and
3. spirit as heaven. The life giving spirit from the creator.
Take away #3, though you be alive in the flesh and poses a spirit, yet dead to a personal relationship with God.
Sounds like an oxymoron statement, yet true.
The first Adam was the recipient of Gods spirit when he first became a living soul, but became dead (separated from God when Adam became his own entity)
If Adam represents the whole of humanity, then humanity as a whole became lost as well.
That part of creation could not be avoided if, God wanted us to be our own god. (In His image where we created)
As the remedy, God formed a body from the same lump of clay (from dust we were created and to dust we will go) that all humanity through that ONE (singular) humanity as a whole would be rescued, redeemed, saved.
A new creation was instituted in a period of a 24 hour day (literal day) in the second Adam.
Again, faith has to vehicle by which the new birth can take place.
Blessings, AJ
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Sure, theism tells you WHO made the universe, but you asked me HOW. HOW did god make the Universe? And if you don't know, why should atheists know?
Well that is where I really take issue. Do you want to accept that it is only your interpretation of genesis that conflicts with science? If you look at genesis as a beautiful instructive parable, that describes the origin of all things in evocative metaphors - then there is no conflict. You can still believe in god, you can still accept the reality of the world arround you.
Why is it that you think it is either God who is right and science that is wrong, instead of thinking of the far more likely option - that you are interpreting God's words wrong?
Meaning that you and I can agree that the earth is at least that old, yet not having any evidence of its beginning.
Thats what this discussion is all about. The two extremes.
Evidence of the sciences verses the faith in evidences not seen, yet believed.
So, unless either one of us converts, neither of us will be in agreement.
You should, especially if you knew and understood what you are missing.
That is considered by believers as a loss.
Php_1:21 For to me to live is Christ, and to die is gain.
Blessings, AJ
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Not quite. The Earth is 4.5 billion years old, the Universe ismuch older than the Earth.
But that is what I don't understand. Science and faith are not enemies. More than half of the world's Christians are Catholic and the Catholics find no conflict between faith and science. As I said it is only a specific interpretation of scripture that conflicts with science.
Cheers
No, I asked you how did it all began via the sciences, which there is no answer.
My answer is rooted in faith that God did.
My version and millions of others. (Christianity)
I agree with you on this point "Instructive". Not all metaphors, for it tells of the creation of a living soul.
The 7 day creation, the tree of knowledge the murder of Cain I believe are metaphors of a picture of the second Adam.
The sciences point to a creator, for without first beginning, there would be no sciences to talk about.
The native Indians, the Pharaohs, the thousands of man made gods paint a stark picture of mankind's attempts to relate to a god.
Unknown to them all, yet evident in their quest to find out.
But in these "last times" 1Pe_1:20 Who verily was foreordained before the foundation of the world, but was manifest in these last times for you,
"Last times" is in reference to the second Adam = Jesus.
The sciences can not answer its beginnings, but God can.
Blessings, AJ
Time does not matter! What matters is who begun the whole thing. 4.5 billion years has not given us an answer.
But the bible, less than 2,000 years has.
Its a matter of having faith in God to believe.
"Science and faith are not enemies". That is absolutely correct. They are in perfect harmony.
Here's the deal, if you want to accept it as stated, when you loose something valuable you seek till you find it right?
But what happens when you do find it? You rest from working to look for it right?
The same analogy is with God, faith and the bible.
The bible without faith in God means nothing but allot of stories.
Yet, when one does find God in all of it, there is no longer a mystery.
Faith in God gives you rest from all your labors to find Him.
The next step it to learn more about Him.
Does that make sense to you ?
I am not asking you to abandon the sciences, but rather use the sciences to find God.
Blessings, AJ
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
We wouldn't have gotten to the moon with that attitude.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Not everyone want's to be a cosmologist. Or needs to be.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
False.
The point of a story, be it a metaphor or a historical reality in the bibles case is its spiritual meaning or interpretation.
Take for instance the story of Jonah and the whale.
Its similarities to the death of Jesus and His resurrection.
It is a spiritual picture of the death and burial of Jesus way before its time as are many of them.
Mat_12:40 For as Jonas was three days and three nights in the whale's belly; so shall the Son of man be three days and three nights in the heart of the earth.
That's pretty definitive.
Blessings, AJ
outhouse
Atheistically
Really?
How so?
Because every aspect of science see's nothing at all that can be attributed to any god.
Bunyip
pro scapegoat
Sure, it's pretty definitively a metaphor and not a literal account. Jesus was not actually in the heart of the earth was he? He was in a cave on the surface.
Also Jonah was obviously not insjde a fish for three days buddy, there is no air to breath - and so that story has to be an alegory also.
FranklinMichaelV.3
Well-Known Member
like i said we already know your religion....
If you ask the question, how did all this come about?
What caused the planets to align themselves in a perfect orbit around the sun? What causes the sun to shine, the air to support life, what causes the weather changes, the sun by day, the moon by night? The glory of the stars that help us navigate the seas, give us our dating system?
I mean, does evolution include all those? Yes, they did evolve, originate with some one with the might and the power to create.
If, in all that, we can not see God, well..............so be it.
I for one see Him in everything! Methodical, organized, in the micro as well as the cosmos, the animal kingdom, the fish in the oceans, the mountains, trees and even in a snow flake.
The awesome beauty, the awesome wonder and the excitement of life are all for our benefit.
Life being long or short, we are!
Blessings, AJ
That we don't know. About Jonah, could of happened. My take on it is the message.
Now, as for Jesus, definitely not a metaphor. For there is evidence of a crucifixion.
The question there is was He who they said He was as predicted hundreds of years before, or was He a false prophet?
That is the ultimate, the central, and the meaning of the whole creation is centered on Him.
I know many of you don't believe a word of it, but........oh well.....
Blessings, AJ
outhouse
Atheistically
They are not in a perfect orbit.
Gravity has the planets in orbit.
There is no need to place a deity there.
A nuclear reaction.
Life evolved in this atmosphere, but not all life needs the air to survive
Barametric pressure changes
No need for mytthology here
CORRECT!!!!!
Thats fine.
But unless you have evidence that Genesis can be literally correct, and you dont! nor have you even tried, its best to keep your faith to yourself. Because no one has ever been able to show Genesis has been literally correct.