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Can a person choose to believe?
- Thread starter Nerissa
- Start date
Thanda
Well-Known Member
Nerissa, what you must understand is that faith is not simply a religious concept, it is a human concept. We use faith everyday of our lives.
When an entrepreneur has a business idea, he doesn't know if it will succeed. But he hopes it will and he realizes that unless he exercises faith and tries his idea out, he will never know. Once he tries his idea out he is then able to confirm whether he had a good idea or whether he had a bad idea.
Most of us get the feeling at some point in our lives that there is something out there. So when some comes and says that something is God and that you can come to him through sincere prayer, we are given an opportunity to exercise faith. In other words, we can try the experiment to see whether it will work. When you do so and it works you then become a believer.
When an entrepreneur has a business idea, he doesn't know if it will succeed. But he hopes it will and he realizes that unless he exercises faith and tries his idea out, he will never know. Once he tries his idea out he is then able to confirm whether he had a good idea or whether he had a bad idea.
Most of us get the feeling at some point in our lives that there is something out there. So when some comes and says that something is God and that you can come to him through sincere prayer, we are given an opportunity to exercise faith. In other words, we can try the experiment to see whether it will work. When you do so and it works you then become a believer.
Well now that is interesting. Despite the fact that a living cell is the most complex, fantastic machine, despite the fact evolution allegedly evolved a trillion times with nary a mistake in the fossil record, despite the fact the human body is the most amazing unbelievable structure made up of thousands of ingenious physiological systems all working together --- the fact that the back and the eye and the brain do not quite match up to your demanding specs, those facts alone tell you this all could never have come from God and therefore must have all been the mindless chance by molecules with no intelligence or will.
So amusing.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Then consciously choose to believe that leprechauns are real. Go ahead. We'll wait.
Mohammad Nur Syamsu
Well-Known Member
So you are saying that you are a leprechaun? I don't understand.
arthra
Baha'i
Nerissa wrote:
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?
In the Baha'i Writings is a reference to the independent investigation of truth... Every Baha'i at some point in their spiritual path is enjoined to independently investigate the Faith and decide for themselves what they accept.
Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of 1,000 years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 285)
and
In short, He wrote all the crowned heads and presidents of republics what has been exactly fulfilled; and certain teachings were revealed from the Supreme Pen relative to the prevention of war, which have been published throughout the world. Those teachings are: First: independent investigation of reality, for blind imitation deadens man's senses, and when an untrammeled search for reality is made, the world of humanity will be released from the shackles of blind imitation.
~ Abdul-Baha
(Provisional Translations, Letter to Martha Root)
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?
In the Baha'i Writings is a reference to the independent investigation of truth... Every Baha'i at some point in their spiritual path is enjoined to independently investigate the Faith and decide for themselves what they accept.
Among these teachings was the independent investigation of reality so that the world of humanity may be saved from the darkness of imitation and attain to the truth; may tear off and cast away this ragged and outgrown garment of 1,000 years ago and may put on the robe woven in the utmost purity and holiness in the loom of reality.
(Abdu'l-Baha, Baha'i World Faith - Abdu'l-Baha Section, p. 285)
and
In short, He wrote all the crowned heads and presidents of republics what has been exactly fulfilled; and certain teachings were revealed from the Supreme Pen relative to the prevention of war, which have been published throughout the world. Those teachings are: First: independent investigation of reality, for blind imitation deadens man's senses, and when an untrammeled search for reality is made, the world of humanity will be released from the shackles of blind imitation.
~ Abdul-Baha
(Provisional Translations, Letter to Martha Root)
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
It's in straightforward English, try again.
dodecahedron
New Member
I'd start by observing that choosing to join a community is not the same as actually believing.
People join religious communities for all sorts of reasons. Near me coworkers join because there's a gym they can use during lunch. Some people join for business networking. Yes, those are extremes, but they do exist.
I was raised in a Christian Church, and the best I could manage is to believe that Jesus had a fairly decent of ethics and was a pretty chill guy.
Also I observed faith and cultural habit spurred church members on to be of use to those in need in their community. That's nothing to sneeze at.
I went on my merry way to be an atheist, but I didn't choose that as much as it seemed to fit the human condition best, as much as I understood the human condition.
I did make a choice to look at religions. If there's a choice maybe that's where it lies? Some people see no reason to look, even for intellectual curiosity.
And people look at religions in different ways. Some try them on for size by spending time with a religious community. Some read up on theology. Some have a serious life problem and are looking for a way to deal with it. It differs.
But no, I did not suddenly make a choice to believe in anything religious. It was more like looking at something and suddenly seeing something I'd missed.
I suppose you could say it was an emotionally charged experience. But it wasn't a choice, and it wasn't feeling that led me to any change in view.
I know there's a common idea that people dind faith because of some trauma or need, and that does describe some people, but it's an overgeneralization.
[/quote]
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?[/quote]
Maybe it just isn't the way you approach life.
The mystical works in every religion I've studied seem to deal with this question at some point.
I suppose psychology does also, in its own way.
Me Myself
Back to my username
dodecahedron
New Member
Rationality is overrated.
On my deathbed I don't want caregivers to get rational with me.
The feelers are there in the world because there is a need for those that can express a pure love that comforts and aids others.
Rationality, on the other hand, when combined with ego, becomes a destructive force.
Anything well channeled is a boon, and poorly channeled is harmful.
About 45 years ago I felt exactly this. I couldn't believe, as nothing made any sense. I had no idea how people could believe. ... But ... then I had an experience.
Christ's Prophet
Member
It is good that you are searching for the meaning of life. God’s Spirit is talking to you and guiding you. Jeremiah 23:23 says:- 23 Am I a God at hand, saith the Lord, and not a God afar off? In other words God is everywhere and there is no place where He is not. The very reason that your heart is beating is because of the grace of God, who upholds all of creation. If you search for God, you will find Him. He is the Creator. In fact it says in Romans 1:20:-
20 For since the creation of the world God’s invisible qualities—his eternal power and divine nature—have been clearly seen, being understood from what has been made, so that people are without excuse. The evidence of God’s design as Creator is everywhere to be seen. His miraculous handiwork is unmistakable in this world. God’s creation is too fantastic to be a result of evolution. It is too fantastic to be ignored. I would counsel you to start reading the Bible, particularly the Gospels:-Matthew, Mark, Luke and John. Find somebody in a mainstream church who can answer your questions. Never be afraid to ask questions. Feelings, whilst they are important, are never a reliable guide to anything. You may have had a good cup of coffee, for instance, and you are feeling good. But God will always minister to your intellect, to convict you on certain matters. Pray to the God of creation to supply His Holy Spirit to bless you. God Bless. Christ’s prophet. Certainty for eternity.
Ponder This
Well-Known Member
If I write a book for you to read, can you suspend your disbelief long enough to learn what it has to say?
To get as far as you did, you had to first set aside your disbelief. If you started to read the book already thinking to yourself that it wasn't true, how far would would get?
Maybe all that happens subconsciously for most people. On the other hand, maybe some people actually do have the freewill to decide.
For years a person lives and doesn't see the thorns he's driving into the hearts of others.
Yet, even if I give you knowledge of it, it remains up to you to decide. How will you live your life?
Another person is born today, without the knowledge that old men have.
Another old man looks back and wonders if he's lived a good life.
But the question sometimes comes as choices. He might have chosen this or chosen that.
And maybe in his last moments he says, "What the heck?" and chooses to believe something else.
Just because you don't know, doesn't mean you can't decide what to believe.
if you want me to believe in Leprechauns and I don't, then maybe it's because you didn't write a very good book.
Just because you believe doesn't make it true and therein lies the conundrum. You want something to be true before you believe it, but you can't know it's true unless you believe it.
When someone tells you to believe something, should you believe it? Why should you? Why should you believe?
You decide what you believe. Rationality is just another hypnotic veil covering your true self.
But it does make for conversation.
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
Only to the irrational.
I can choose to be a chef, but that doesn't mean I'm going to instantaneously be one.
I thought these were well worded questions. Do you have your own responses to them?
Cephus
Relentlessly Rational
No, you can choose to become a chef. You can't just arbitrarily choose to be one.
"I want to be a chef" and "I want to become a chef" are generally understood to mean the same thing.
But if your minor grammar picking prevents you from understanding the point, then feel free to change the wording: Choosing to become a chef doesn't mean that you instantly become a chef. In other words, the failure to instantly obtain the thing you choose to do has no bearing upon whether it is actually possible to choose to do that thing.