Can a person choose to believe?

[ether-ore]

Fair enough. I performed the test. The results were bad.

Cynicism invalidates the test because it nullifies trust. There has to exist the 'willingness' to believe. You cannot have good results... that is... good fruit if you do not nourish the seed.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Well. Consider this:

You choose to believe that the earth is a sphere ... right?
You choose to believe that if you are deprived of oxygen long enough, you'll suffocate ... right?
You choose to believe that a red hot stove will burn your hand ... right?

Yes. Indeed. Religious belief is just another matter of choice. Ho hum.



It's more likely a deliberate choice their parents made for them ... so to say that their faith is a matter of choice seems wholly disingenuous.

"... children are the most important population segment to minister to because of their spiritual teachability and developmental vulnerability." ~ Christipedia

...

Developmental vulnerability?

Doesn't that sound rather totally sinister?

You continue your shuffle trick, pretending that the existence of God is a factual issue, that you can measure God.

The question whether or not God exists, is same like the question whether a painting is beautiful or ugly. You reach the conclusion by expressing your emotions with free will, thus choosing the answer. The conclusion beautiful is valid, the conclusion ugly is valid as well.

With factual issues, unlike with opinions, there is only ever 1 correct answer, which answer is forced by evidence.

 

[Doug Shaver]

Doug Shaver,
re: "If I don't believe it, then I don't know it."

Can you know the truth about something and not know that you know?

The relevance of that question to what I have been saying is not obvious to me. However . . . my study of epistemology has led me to conclude that if I know something, then I cannot be unaware of knowing it, and I believe that that constitutes a negative answer to your question. I should perhaps point out, though, that I do not accept any infallibilist theory of knowledge. To prove that somebody knows something is not to prove that it is necessarily true.

 

[Cephus]

Can we choose to be ignorant?

Actually, I addressed that in another post. I don't know that you can choose to be ignorant of something that you would have had to be aware of in order to make the choice in the first place.

 

[Cephus]

Nonsense. If I don't believe it, then I don't know it. If you say you know it, then I know that you believe it, but that doesn't mean I know it.

You have to at least know it exists in order to purposely avoid it. You might not be willing to accept it, which would be willful disbelief, not willful ignorance.

 

[Right lane]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

In most cases, our beliefs are based on our observations and learnings about the world we live in. We observe the sun rising every day, so we have reason to believe it will rise again. We have never seen a person fly, we know we personally cannot fly. Thus, we don't believe we can fly. (At least most of us)

What evidence do we see for the existence of God ? For me, it's none, and it never has been. When I was an adolescent the group I hung out with were believers in God. I tried to believe in God, but after a week or two I gave up because I realized it just was not there. I have been comfortable with non-belief ever since.

 

[Cephus]

In most cases, our beliefs are based on our observations and learnings about the world we live in. We observe the sun rising every day, so we have reason to believe it will rise again. We have never seen a person fly, we know we personally cannot fly. Thus, we don't believe we can fly. (At least most of us)

But we don't need to believe that the sun rises because we have evidence that it does. Unless you're going to use the term "believe" very loosely, beliefs are really not required, at least not in the same sense as someone believes in religious teachings and doctrines. Theists do not base their beliefs on things they see in the world around them, it's an emotional reaction to a world that scares them, there isn't anything they can point to that demonstrably shows their beliefs are reasonable. It's the same as theists who claim everyone has "faith". They only do so because then they can come back and say "see, you have faith too so you can't criticize me!" It just doesn't work that way because what they define as "faith" is not the same thing as they claim to hold. It's just a word game. There is nothing that I share with a theist which could reasonably be called "faith".

What evidence do we see for the existence of God ? For me, it's none, and it never has been. When I was an adolescent the group I hung out with were believers in God. I tried to believe in God, but after a week or two I gave up because I realized it just was not there. I have been comfortable with non-belief ever since.

And that's how people ought to act. If there isn't a good reason to believe a thing actually exists, we shouldn't believe it. Professing belief because their precious feelings are hurt if they don't believe is foolish.

 

[Doug Shaver]

You have to at least know it exists in order to purposely avoid it.

Your semantic stunts will not establish that I'm admitting you're right every time I disagree with you.

You might not be willing to accept it, which would be willful disbelief, not willful ignorance.

Whatever I do not believe, I do not know. Willingness has nothing to do with it.

 

[roger1440]

I have a question.
I consider myself agnostic because I have never felt any certainty about a God. I haven't had any religious experiences but I also cannot say that I decisively do not believe in God (or anything else, for that matter).
The only thing I know is that I don't know.
However, I have visited temples and churches. Sometimes because of my studies, sometimes because I was simply interested. In a Christian Pentecostal movement, I met some really nice (and extremely enthusiastic) people who told me that faith was a matter of choice. At one point, you simply have to decide to believe and reach out to God and then he will reach out to you. They told me that many of them had had doubts of their own, and they only went away when they completely devoted themselves to their faith and their church.
I simply don't understand. Or maybe I'm just not capable of doing what they say. How can you reach out to God if you're not even sure to whom or what you are speaking?
The same is for people who say they "decided" to join a specific group or community. How is it possible to choose what to believe? Either you believe it or you don't, right?
I am curious what your experiences are in this area. Especially those of you who are believers - was it a deliberate choice you made? Or did you simple "feel" it was the truth some day, whether you wanted to believe it or not?

A lot depends on how we define God.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

You continue your shuffle trick, pretending that the existence of God is a factual issue ...

1.) I am not pretending that the existence of God is a factual issue.

2.) The OP was not asking if the existence of God was a factual issue. She was asking if belief was a matter of choice or not … as if belief were akin to selecting a flavor of ice cream.

Go back and read it again. She asked: “How is it possible to choose what to believe?”

I'm suggesting that belief is not a matter of choice. One either believes X or one does not.

that you can measure God.

I'm not sure how this is even tangentially relevant, but the Bible does appear to indicate that God is indeed measurable:

“I am the Alpha and the Omega, the First and the Last, the Beginning and the End.” ~ Revelation 22:13

That which has a beginning and an end is finite, correct? Finite things are measurable, correct?

The question whether or not God exists, is same like the question whether a painting is beautiful or ugly.

No it isn't. Asking whether or not a god exists is more like asking if a painting exists or not. “Ugly” and “beautiful” are aesthetic judgments. The OP was not asking us to draw aesthetic judgments about God.

You reach the conclusion by expressing your emotions with free will, thus choosing the answer. The conclusion beautiful is valid, the conclusion ugly is valid as well.

My belief in the existence of X is not based on emotion. It is based solely on evidence. I cannot believe that which is not evidently believable.

With factual issues, unlike with opinions, there is only ever 1 correct answer, which answer is forced by evidence.

So you would agree with me that one cannot choose to believe, correct?

 

[Cephus]

You continue your shuffle trick, pretending that the existence of God is a factual issue, that you can measure God.

Because it is a factual issue. It's like saying that you can debate falling objects while claiming that gravity is not a factual issue. Of course it is! Since your entire argument is based around the existence of this God character, then you are claiming this entity actually exists. That makes it a factual issue. The fact that you can't address it in that way, that's your failure.

 

[NulliuSINverba]

Your example of an involuntary action is absurd. The will is not involved in such a case. I'm referring to willful actions.

Really? Because that certainly isn't what you said:

Any action is a choice.

When you said "any action," it appeared that you were referring to "any action." Thanks for providing the much-needed clarification.

Also, and of course a coerced action does not count either. The individual's free will must be engaged for it to count as a beneficial exercise.

So if one believes in God because of the threat of eternal damnation, it follows that one's belief in God is not a beneficial exercise, correct?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

1.) I am not pretending that the existence of God is a factual issue.

Don't get me wrong. It's readily apparent that there are lots of people who're perfectly willing to (in lieu of evidence) pretend that the existence of God is a factual issue. Isn't this typically called "faith?"

 

[jonathan180iq]

How many things have we believed over the course of our lived that turned out to be false, but we kept on believing in them anyway?

Belief is absolutely a choice.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Faith is an objectivity before the imagination occurs.

 

[Willamena]

Don't get me wrong. It's readily apparent that there are lots of people who're perfectly willing to (in lieu of evidence) pretend that the existence of God is a factual issue. Isn't this typically called "faith?"

I don't think the attitude of pretense is what is meant by most people who use the word "faith."

 

[NulliuSINverba]

How many things have we believed over the course of our lived that turned out to be false, but we kept on believing in them anyway?

Hopefully, zero.

Hopefully.

Belief is absolutely a choice.

So you're claiming that one could choose to not believe that 1+1=2, correct? Or that one can choose to not believe that Sheboygan is a city in Wisconsin?

Could you please explain how that works? And can you also explain how this sort of "choice" is to be differentiated from denial?

 

[NulliuSINverba]

I don't think the attitude of pretense is what is meant by most people who use the word "faith."

Given the glaring lack of evidence, I'm not sure what else to call it.

 

[It's Ya Girl Jesus' Wife]

Look up the definition for the word "faith", sweetheart. The Bible states that it is impossible to please God without faith. God is the creator of the universe. Just pray to Him. There are no other gods. In actuality, we need Jesus Christ as our personal Lord and Savior to have access to our Father. I never doubted the existence of God but I did question the Bible. My Lord revealed to me that the Bible was true. God reveals Himself to us when we choose to believe in Him. Faith is most pleasing to Him... I'M NOT TRYING TO PREACH, STAFF. I'm simply answering the question. We must accept Christ as Lord and Savior because our sins block us from God. God will speak to you if you talk to Him. Trust me. I only know this from experience.

 

[Mohammad Nur Syamsu]

Because it is a factual issue. It's like saying that you can debate falling objects while claiming that gravity is not a factual issue. Of course it is! Since your entire argument is based around the existence of this God character, then you are claiming this entity actually exists. That makes it a factual issue. The fact that you can't address it in that way, that's your failure.

You don't understand how any subjectivity works.