No*s
Captain Obvious
Was the problem solely with the title of "Holy Spirit" or was this also my description?
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can christians answer some questions
- Thread starter Gharib
- Start date
Was the problem solely with the title of "Holy Spirit" or was this also my description?
Renji
Well-Known Member
No.We believe that Jesus is God. Remember the concept of trinity: 3 persons, one God.Jesus said: The Father and I are one.
No
I was just stating that I don't claim to be an expert, and therefore am open to enlightenment on this issue Sorry, I thought that, based on your prior statement, you might have such knowledge
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
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no your description was fine, but i just pointed out to you that in the Kur'an Allah reffers to Jebraeel (as) / Gabriel (as) as the holy spirit, it's just an islamic perspective. i understood your post though, that was fine.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
can't the words "The fahter and i are one" also mean that they are one as in: i (jesus) am from him (god), and by me being a prophet of god i am one with god.
heres an exaple of what i mean: my father and i can call our selves as being one, we are 2 people but we are one, i also am one with my brother, again we are 2 people but we are one.
don't you think thats what he meant by it. because i too am one with god, without him i am nothing. everything that i do is from god so if i sepparated my self from god then i would be nothing, but in this way we are not the same (we are two beings the creator and the creation) but we both are one as in i cannot live without god.
i don't know if this makes sense but i hope it does.
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
No
oh, ok thats good
Sorry, I thought that, based on your prior statement, you might have such knowledge
no i ussually need people to explain things to me rather then me doing it for them. the things that i know are easy for me to explain but to read something from someone else and explain it, is not so easy, i need more understanding of it.
and sorry i couldn't help though
Kathryn
It was on fire when I laid down on it.
god became a human (Jesus) so then why wasn't he powerfull. why did god let his creations to kill him, he may have had a different state (in this case form), but the formula (the power of god) was the same. if god had no power when he was a human then how did everything run perfectly. i mean it is god who controlles everything, so if he had no powers while as a human then who took care of the universe, the heavens, the earth, the hell, the other creatures, etc....[/quote]
Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified. This act doesn't mean he had no control over the situation. This was His CHOICE. Haven't you ever sacrificed something for the good of someone else? In that case, did you feel out of control, or did you feel utterly IN control?
And God is omnipotent, so at no point during His walk on this earth was the universe ever not taken care of.
Jesus allowed Himself to be crucified. This act doesn't mean he had no control over the situation. This was His CHOICE. Haven't you ever sacrificed something for the good of someone else? In that case, did you feel out of control, or did you feel utterly IN control?
And God is omnipotent, so at no point during His walk on this earth was the universe ever not taken care of.
The problem with the trinity is Jesus is second place to no one.
You can't place God anywhere since He is a spirit and is omnipresent.
- "liquid water, steam, or ice"
so what are you saying that God changes into different forms?
Jesus said of himself that he is the First and the Last. He said he is the Alpha and Omega. Titus called him the great God.
On the Damascus road when God apprehended him,Saul who only knew of one God and that God he knew was the God of Israel, asked him the obvious question, since there Saul was thinking he was doing God service by killing Christians asked the God of Israel, Who are you Lord? Didn't Saul know who God was? He sure did. He was a Jew of the tribe of Benjamin, a Pharisee a member of the Sanhedrin, a rabbi, an educated scholar and he asked the God of Israel who he was.
The Lord answered him that he was Jesus. Not second place, not any member of a trinity.
The Lord (and there is only one Lord) said I am Jesus
Jesus said that whoever sees him sees the Father and this cannot be compared to husbands and wives.
A husband cannot say that whoever sees him sees his wife.
Jesus said whoever sees him sees the Father and he meant exactly that.
Isaiah 6 called him the everlasting Father.
The trinity is a Roman Catholic invention and this cannot be denied. The Bible and History prove it.
Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
I can give you well over a dozen verses in the Bible which say He's "in Heaven." How many can you give me that say He's "everywhere"?
Then why did Jesus refer to His Father as His "God"?
I mean no one no human being can "place" God anywhere. He is in heaven, he is here and there and in all places. But no person can place him or confine him to second place in a trinity invented by Catholicism.. He is not submissive or subject to our ideas about him. The trinity notion tries to place Jesus in a second place.
God is the Father of Jesus in that he overshadowed Mary and she conceived a son. Incredible but true.
Simply put God impregnated a virgin and she had a Son and he was God come to earth in a man.
When Jesus referred to God as his God it was because Jesus knew that his Father the Creator had created the flesh and bones he was then confined in.
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Katzpur
Not your average Mormon
But where does the Bible say He's everywhere? I know of nowhere in the Bible where He is spoken of as being anywhere other than in Heaven.
Okay, it sounds as if you don't believe in the doctrine of the Trinity. Neither do I. But I'm confused about one thing. You keep referring to Him as not being in "second place." Are you talking about God the Father or about His Son, Jesus Christ? I believe the Rinity always speaks of the Father as being the first person and the Son as the second. How do you view their relationship with each other?
I can agree with you on that.
That sounds a whole lot like the Trinity doctrine to me. Are you saying that God the Father is the same person as Jesus Christ? If you do, you and I are in for a great discussion.
No*s
Captain Obvious
Then moving on from that point, and this is where I suspect that Islam and the Orthodox faith will almost certainly be different:
Since God is bodiless, we describe Him best in terms of His character. We believe of all characteristics, we can say "God is love" with the most confidence (I draw this from the Scripture, I John). Does Islam agree with this?
UnityNow101
Well-Known Member
Yes, within Islam they have the 99 names of Allah, which correspond to different characteristics and attributes of the Almighty...
The Most Beautiful Names of Allah
Gharib
I want Khilafah back
i don't know about "God is love" but instead "love comes from god" (he is the source) there are many characterisitcs of Allah, all of Allah's names are also characteristics of Allah and all characteristics of Allah are not the names of Allah.
No*s
Captain Obvious
It gets very tricky right here.
The Word and the Breath are different facets of God. Each one acts and reveals. Just like us, God can have inner dialogue. The belief that God is love (and it will work with "loving" also) requries that God have someone to love, or else He is not God. Who would that be before the creation? Love must always be others' centered to truly be love. This would appear to mean that God could not be God without the creation.
We draw the Christian answer from our experience. We see the Word speak and act. We see the Breath (I'm sorry, but I don't have another good term than Breath/Spirit) speak and act. These afford what allows God to be centered on others without requiring the creation. He has always existed with the Word and Breath, and they are subjects of His love and return it. It is a perfect circle and communion of love. Each one is a Face of God, and each one is distinct. God is also indivisible, because since He is wholly unbound, each of the three flows one into another, so that they are completely and wholly one. We cannot separate God or conceive of His separation.
I used "Face" where we usually use "Person", because it may be less confusing here. I have probably said too much at one time, but I had to tie all of that together. Sorry if it is getting very confusing.
"For thus saith the high and lofty One that inhabiteth eternity, whose name is Holy; I dwell in the high and holy place, with him also that is of a contrite and humble spirit, to revive the spirit of the humble, and to revive the heart of the contrite ones."
Where is eternity? He fills it. He dwells with the one who is of a humble and contrite spirit. In John 3 Jesus told Nicodemus he the Son of man was in heaven, yet he was on earth when he said this. Jesus was in heaven yet one earth. David in the Psalms asked where could he flee from God's spirit, if he went to hell he was there or heaven he was there.
The Son Jesus Christ said of himself that he is the Alpha and Omega, the beginning and the end (everywhere) in Revelation of Jesus Christ in Revelation of Jesus Christ 1:8 and he called himself the Almighty. He said is the one who was dead but now alive.
Uh huh
Isaiah said he is the everlasting Father in chapter 9. Jesus said whoever sees him sees the Father. This cannot be compared to husbands and wives' a husband can't say, Whoever sees him sees his wife. Jesus was a man; not a second person, he said he had power to lay down his life and take it up again. He told them to destroy his temple and he would raise it up in three days. How obvious he is God himself in the form of a man.
McBell
Unbound
Hell will last Forever. Jesus spoke of an outer darkness where men go. If one thinks of evil, he has entered that outer darkness simply by going there in his mind. If he is in that outer darkness when he dies, he will remain there forever because the Bible says as tree falls, so shall it lie.
God rules over all. Satan is the god of this world, but God is the creator of Lucifer who became Satan who is the god of this world.
God is not the outer darkness since he is light and in him is no darkness at all.
If one sins he separates himself from God and this bring darkness.
David in the Bible said if he made his bed in hell that God is there.