can God exist in imagination?

[blü 2]

So who you are is material or non-material?

As far as I can tell, after a good deal of looking, who you are, and what you think, and how you think it, that's all material.

Complex ─ biology can be complex and the brain is most complex of all ─ but material.

 

[Link]

Who you are, and what you think, and how you think it, that's all material.

Complex ─ biology can be complex and the brain is most complex of all ─ but material.

So why aren't ideas said to be material? They exist in the brain. Who we are is not material, come on.

 

[blü 2]

So why aren't ideas said to be material? They exist in the brain. Who we are is not material, come on.

Have you ever seen an EEG? What do you think it's recording? "Brain waves" are real and are produced by the biochemical / bioelectrical functions of the brain, by which we perceive, think, remember, feel, act on instinct, and so on.

 

[Link]

Have you ever seen an EEG? What do you think it's recording? "Brain waves" are real and are produced by the biochemical / bioelectrical functions of the brain, by which we perceive, think, remember, feel, act on instinct, and so on.

Even if we are produced by the brain, we are idea type existence, who we are is that, it's not material.

 

[blü 2]

Even if we are produced by the brain, we are idea type existence, who we are is that, it's not material.

I don't understand what you mean to denote when you say "idea type existence" ─ grateful for your clarification.

 

[Link]

I don't understand what you mean to denote when you say "idea type existence" ─ grateful for your clarification.

We would be a perception type existence produced by our brains whether God exists or not is irrelevant, to the fact, we are an idea type existence.

Idea as in produced program/thought in the mind, who we are is not a physical thing.

 

[Trailblazer]

Idea as in produced program/thought in the mind, who we are is not a physical thing.

No, we are a soul.

 

[blü 2]

We would be a perception type existence produced by our brains whether God exists or not is irrelevant, to the fact, we are an idea type existence.

If you mean the human brain is capable of abstract thought, ideas that have no direct counterpart in nature, like "heaviness" and "Captain Marvel" and "2" and "unicorn" and "justice" then yes, concepts are a major part of how our brains have evolved to think. Language works by labeling concepts; that's why translation between eg English and Chinese is possible (though if you've ever tried to translate poetry, you'll know it involves substitutions of concepts that are more or less similar, but not the same).

But that doesn't mean things that are purely conceptual or imaginary are real, in the sense of existing, independently of the concept of them. All the evidence says the only place such concepts exist is in individual human brains.

Idea as in produced program/thought in the mind, who we are is not a physical thing.

Our knowledge of how the brain works advances constantly; and we've begun to understand how it works, though indeed we still have a long way to go, But nothing we've found suggests that anything 'spiritual' or 'supernatural' or 'immaterial' is involved at any point,

Things are not real just because we can imagine them, have the concept of them. Things are real because they exist in nature, that is, in the world external to the self.

 

[Link]

I see the disagreement we have and I See what you mean.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

If God is real, unlike other things, he cannot be imagined to exist but only seen to exist. That it is impossible to imagine him as possibly not existing if God is real.

I can imagine myself existing or not existing, but God if real, cannot be imagined not to exist if he is real.

Now the question is when you remember God - what do you see, an impossible thing to exist or the Necessary being that lives and exists. Because there is no between that as proven by Anselm and Descartes.

God if he exists, would a be a proof of himself existing, because he would be the necessary being.

We cannot see God as impossible, in my view, which means he definitely exists and is the Necessary being and we are looking at the Living One.

I declare X to necessarily exist.
Therefor X exists.


Great argument you got there....

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

Souls have eyes, and if you look away from God, you look towards falsehood and deception, and if look at God with the eyes of love, you will see he/she/it definitely exists and cannot but exist when we mathematically remember it's sheer size.

Talk about word salad...

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The existence of a necessary being is the logical conclusion of several philosophical arguments and in my honest opinion, cannot be avoided if you follow logic, simple or complex.

That is, if you don't mind unsupported premises, assumed conclusions and arguments from ignorance.

This necessary being being God is another argument and is also the most logical conclusion based on several other arguments.

Yeah, like "i already believe that so that's what i want to conclude"

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

but God can also exist in reality.

Ow?

How have you determined this?

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

God is necessary though according to all philosophers Atheists and Theists alike.

lol... no.

Why haven't they acknowledged God exists then?

Because your previous statement is a falsehood.

It seems then it's the way ontological argument is presented, Atheists make it as if it's some kind of trick but really it's not

It's not a trick. It's just fallacious nonsense.

. It pointing how God is a proof of his own existence and when recalled we know by this characteristic he exists.

Circular word salad.

Also, the whole discussion of existence as not a characteristic is a red herring and the way ontological argument is refuted in university to me doesn't stand to reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

Ow?

How have you determined this?

The only way one can ever determine anything about God, by listening to God's Messenger.

 

[Link]

The only way one can ever determine anything about God, by listening to God's Messenger.

This is simply not true, people are required to believe in God by their nature whether a Messenger is present or not among them. For example, humans who lived far away and didn't hear about either Moses or Jesus or Mohammad, are still required to believe in God.
In fact, they can access the guide of their time, through other means, then simply scripture.

The Guide has the ability and the family of the guidance of the time, to connect to humans, where-ever they are. Scripture is not necessary for humans to know they need a spiritual guide on the journey nor to affirm the spiritual world nor to know God exists.

Messengers remind of all this, as an act of mercy from God and as well he appoints kings from him to be obeyed, as an act of justice in all times, so humans can return to God's Authority and obey the true king (God) through his anointed king on earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

This is simply not true, people are required to believe in God by their nature whether a Messenger is present or not among them. For example, humans who lived far away and didn't hear about either Moses or Jesus or Mohammad, are still required to believe in God.
In fact, they can access the guide of their time, through other means, then simply scripture.

By their nature? I am not sure what you mean by that However, I agree that people can believe in God whether a Messenger is present or not among them. I would not say that God 'requires' it, but I believe there will be consequences for their failure to believe in God.

“I have perfected in every one of you My creation, so that the excellence of My handiwork may be fully revealed unto men. It follows, therefore, that every man hath been, and will continue to be, able of himself to appreciate the Beauty of God, the Glorified. Had he not been endowed with such a capacity, how could he be called to account for his failure?”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 143
.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

The only way one can ever determine anything about God, by listening to God's Messenger.

So... not. You just believe someone who says so.

 

[Trailblazer]

So... not. You just believe someone who says so.

That's correct, because there is no way for me to determine it by myself.

 

[TagliatelliMonster]

That's correct, because there is no way for me to determine it by myself.

So why would there be a way for anyone else to do so?
And how would you know?