Can good people go to hell?

[dianaiad]

Jeeze now you are mixing Science and Philosophy.

That's as bad as mixing Science and Religion.

Acquit me. I was doing precisely the opposite. I'm saying that you CAN'T mix science and religion. Two entirely different fields of study with two entirely different goals.

 

[uncung]

She certainly was involved in the creation of half of my DNA; I look a great deal like her, as a matter of fact, until we find a picture of my father's mother, and then people say I look a great deal like her.

uncung, I happen to believe that God DID create us...but my existence is not proof that He did. To make that claim, I think, is the worst sort of hubris. I mean, really: are you and I so incredibly special that among all the stars, planets and the universe, WE are the proof of His existence?

(shaking head) Isn't 'pride' one of the seven deadlies? Or...does Islam have a list like that? Is overweening pride a sin in Islam?

But God created your mom.

 

[uncung]

OK....heaven is real because
my religion says so and
my religion says so because
God made my religion and
God made my religion because
my religion says so?

uncung, I do not wish you to lose your faith. I just wish you to find it through a fashion that will allow you to keep it, thoughtfully, in the face of opposition. Lousy logical reasoning isn't going to help you with that.

But i don't need a help.

 

[uncung]

That's quite true. We are here because God did it. However, our existence isn't proof that He did. Do you understand the difference between the two concepts?

But we do exist because God makes us exist.

 

[uncung]

I am surprised you do not see it.

The problem is that I could prove anything following the same reasoning.

For instance, I could prove the existence of the magical blue fairy. How? Simple, she created you.

How would you object to it?

Ciao

- viole

But what and who is blue fairy?

 

[dianaiad]

Actually I want to live my life without "sin". Why? Because I am not interested in following the commandments and the bible.

(shrug) You aren't getting my point. "Sin" is a violation of ones personal moral code, as opposed to 'breaking the law,' which is a violation of someone else's. I have already given the example of coffee; you can drink it or swim in it or flavor ice cream in it. It's not a sin for you to do so, because (at least as far as I know) drinking coffee is not against your personal moral code. I don't think you are committing a sin when you drink it. You probably don't think you are sinning when you drink it.

However, if *I* drink it, it is a sin. Why? Because I promised not to drink it. Breaking promises is against my moral code...therefore, a sin.

I don't know anybody who doesn't have a personal moral code; even sociopaths have one. Atheists do...and so does every Satanist I've ever met. They might not have the same moral code I do, but they have one.

Well, they do unless they are the 'let's play at being truly evil' fake Satanists, anyway.

Do you have one?

 

[dianaiad]

But we do exist because God makes us exist.

Oh, I agree.
What I'm objecting to is your illogical insistence that our existence proves His.

Look, uncung...it just so happens that I baked a cake awhile back (surprised the heck out of my family, since I truly hate to bake). It existed because I baked it.
However, the existence of that cake does NOT prove that I exist, or even that I baked it. I could have purchased it from the store (in fact, I should have...). I could have asked my neice to bake it (she does that sort of thing for a living). That cake could have come into being for many different reasons; its simple existence doesn't prove mine.

 

[James Lyon]

Acquit me. I was doing precisely the opposite. I'm saying that you CAN'T mix science and religion. Two entirely different fields of study with two entirely different goals.

I disagree deeply, once science and all religion find common ground we can move forward. Till then people will cling to confused notions.

 

[uncung]

Oh, I agree.
What I'm objecting to is your illogical insistence that our existence proves His.

Look, uncung...it just so happens that I baked a cake awhile back (surprised the heck out of my family, since I truly hate to bake). It existed because I baked it.
However, the existence of that cake does NOT prove that I exist, or even that I baked it. I could have purchased it from the store (in fact, I should have...). I could have asked my neice to bake it (she does that sort of thing for a living). That cake could have come into being for many different reasons; its simple existence doesn't prove mine.

Then who else make the cake if not by you?

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Hell is an invention just to scare the religious people so they can stay with god. What the christians say that hell is the lake of fire it is a load of sh*t. I believe it was the church that invented hell.

You are right, to a point, Priestess. In describing "the horrors of Hell", it has been, and is being, used to scare and control people....so very sad, accusing God that way! However, the Bible does mention Sheol in the Hebrew Scriptures ("OT") and Hades in the Greek Scriptures ("NT"); they both refer to the same thing, and they both are translated into English as Hell. So it is real.
But it is more of a "condition", a condition the dead are in, than it is a "place". It could still be called a "place"... It is referred to as a "place."

Simply put, according to the Hebrew Scriptures, just about everybody who has died, are in Sheol (Hell). Ecclesiastes 9:10...."All that your hand finds to do, do with your very power, for there is no work nor devising nor knowledge nor wisdom in Sheʹol, the place to which you are going." Check out Psalms 89:48.

Oops, my battery is going dead. Ecclesiastes 9:5 says, "the dead are aware of nothing." if you're 'not aware' of anything, you can't very well feel pain, can you?

The "condition" of those in hell, is that they will have a resurrection! (As in Revelation 20:13-14, "death and Hell gave up those dead in them." -- see Revelation 21:3-4) Those in the Lake of Fire (the second death), will not. After given another chance at life without the evil influence we have today....if people still prefer badness, they will be gone forever!

How sad that the Bible's truth and meaning have been twisted. It was prophesied to happen, though.

 

[viole]

But what and who is blue fairy?

She is a magician girl who is able to turn things into full fledged human beings. She can also change form and shape depending on the circumstances. There is a lot of fairological debate about her characteristics. The color of her hair is, for instance, quite controversial. Some say she is blonde with blue wings, while others, more fundamentalistic, believe she has blue hair and no wings. Apophatic fairologists claim she does not have hair nor wings,

Afairists lack belief in her and think she is a fictional character, but what do they know? Since she is quite tough when it comes to moral behavior, afairists don't believe in her just because they want to do what they want, while being unable to offer a single argument that disproves her existence.

If you are interested, I suggest you read the corresponding Scriptures. I think it is called Pinocchio, or something like that.

Nevertheless, here we go. She made you, ergo she exists. This is irrefutable proof, don't you think so?

Ciao

- viole

 

[uncung]

She is a magician girl who is able to turn things into full fledged human beings. She can also change form and shape depending on the circumstances. There is a lot of fairological debate about her characteristics. The color of her hair is, for instance, quite controversial. Some say she is blonde with blue wings, while others, more fundamentalistic, believe she has blue hair and no wings. Apophatic fairologists claim she does not have hair nor wings,

Afairists lack belief in her and think she is a fictional character, but what do they know? Since she is quite tough when it comes to moral behavior, afairists don't believe in her just because they want to do what they want, while being unable to offer a single argument that disproves her existence.

If you are interested, I suggest you read the corresponding Scriptures. I think it is called Pinocchio, or something like that.

Nevertheless, here we go. She made you, ergo she exists. This is irrefutable proof, don't you think so?

Ciao

- viole

But, but is she real?

 

[viole]

But, but is she real?

I don't know what you mean. If we knew she is real, I would not need to use indirect arguments like "she made you" in order to prove her existence. Like you did for God.

Ciao

- viole

 

[uncung]

I don't know what you mean. If we knew she is real, I would not need to use indirect arguments like "she made you" in order to prove her existence. Like you did for God.

Ciao

- viole

But how do you know she is for real? Do you have a piece of evidence?

 

[viole]

But how do you know she is for real? Do you have a piece of evidence?

Nope. Do you have a piece of evidence of God? If yes, why did you use that argument to prove Him instead?

Ciao

- viole

 

[uncung]

Nope. Do you have a piece of evidence of God? If yes, why did you use that argument to prove Him instead?

Ciao

- viole

Yes I have. The evidence is yourself. You are created by God. see?

 

[viole]

Yes I have. The evidence is yourself. You are created by God. see?

Yes, and the evidence that the blue fairy exists is yourself. You have been created by the blue fairy. See?

Ciao

- viole

 

[uncung]

Yes, and the evidence that the blue fairy exists is yourself. You have been created by the blue fairy. See?

Ciao

- viole

who is blue fairy you keep talking about? prove it that she is real. you can't.

 

[Demonslayer]

prove it that she is real. you can't.

The blue fairy made you. That is proof that the blue fairy is real.

 

[viole]

who is blue fairy you keep talking about? prove it that she is real. you can't.

Of course, I can. You are the proof. She created you.

If you use that argument to prove God, why can't I use it to prove the blue fairy, as well?

Ciao

- viole