Harmonious
Well-Known Member
Or, rather, people who believe that Jesus is in any way useful have failed to understand the commandments given to the Jews by God.
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Can Jewish law be fulfilled?
- Thread starter fallingblood
- Start date
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Jesus obeyed them perfectly in the eyes of God but not in the eyes of your spiritual protoges (Pharisees and Scribes). They were "spiritual drill sergeants" who placed such a burden on the people by adding additional requirements to the law which God commanded against (Deut 4:2). Not to mention their other evil deeds which Jesus exposed. It's no wonder why He chastised them as often as He did. And it comes as no surprise why you would "strain a gnat" to dismiss Him as the Messiah.
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Harmonious
Well-Known Member
It is good to know your opinion.
I suppose it would do no good to let you know what is truly expected of a Messiah, and to show you why Jesus was not even close to fitting the bill. But I haven't spent time in this thread expressing what Jews are looking for in the Messiah - I've spent time showing that Jesus did not "fulfill" anything. Jesus was a Jew, and he did not fulfill the commandments.
However, I am practically dumbfounded. Over the course of my rather long post, I expressed what Jews believe, and explained why it is not what Christians believe. Over the course of this THREAD, I KNOW I've spent time explaining that God never expected perfection, but Jesus "moved the goal posts."
And this is what you come up with.
It is good to know. Now I also know who is actually reading texts, and who cherry picks. And since it is clear that you would much rather harangue me for being Jewish and rejecting Jesus rather than actually paying attention to WHY I've rejected Jesus, and it is also clear you aren't interested in what I have to say, I no longer feel the need to respond to you.
Welcome to my Ignore List.
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Harmonious
Well-Known Member
For those who are actually wondering, the idea of what the Jews expect of our Messiah has been covered before.
And since Yid did such a good job explaining, I'll repost what he said.
And since Yid did such a good job explaining, I'll repost what he said.
Here is a good one with Scriptural references.
The Sanhedrin will be re-established (Isaiah 1:26)
Once he is King, leaders of other nations will look to him for guidance. (Isaiah 2:4)
The whole world will worship the One God of Israel (Isaiah 2:17)
He will be descended from King David (Isaiah 11:1) via Solomon (1 Chronicles 22:8-10, 2 Chronicles 7:18)
The Moshiach will be a man of this world, an observant Jew with "fear of God" (Isaiah 11:2)
Evil and tyranny will not be able to stand before his leadership (Isaiah 11:4)
Knowledge of God will fill the world (Isaiah 11:9)
He will include and attract people from all cultures and nations (Isaiah 11:10)
All Israelites will be returned to their homeland (Isaiah 11:12)
Death will be swallowed up forever (Isaiah 25:8)
There will be no more hunger or illness, and death will cease (Isaiah 25:8)
All of the dead will rise again (Isaiah 26:19)
The Jewish people will experience eternal joy and gladness (Isaiah 51:11)
He will be a messenger of peace (Isaiah 52:7)
Nations will end up recognizing the wrongs they did to Israel (Isaiah 52:13-53:5)
The peoples of the world will turn to the Jews for spiritual guidance (Zechariah 8:23)
The ruined cities of Israel will be restored (Ezekiel 16:55)
Weapons of war will be destroyed (Ezekiel 39:9)
The Temple will be rebuilt resuming many of the suspended mitzvot (Ezekiel 40)
He will then perfect the entire world to serve God together (Zephaniah 3:9)
Jews will know the Torah without study (Jeremiah 31:33)[3]
He will give you all the worthy desires of your heart (Psalms 37:4)
He will take the barren land and make it abundant and fruitful (Isaiah 51:3, Amos 9:13-15, Ezekiel 36:29-30, Isaiah 11:6-9)
james2ko
Well-Known Member
That's ok by me. I wish the Pharisees would have placed Jesus on their ignore list.
Remember you are the one who abruptly interrupted a conversation between auto and I and instigated the debate in post #96 by accusing Jesus of breaking the 5th commandment which is an insult to Christians.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
It shouldn't be an insult though as it is simply true. Jesus sinned. It should be as simple as that.That's ok by me. I wish the Pharisees would have placed Jesus on their ignore list.
waitasec
Veteran Member
you know this how, by presuming...?
how is it apparent?
consider the context. who is misreading and misunderstanding...?
you're the one presuming it was fine in gods eyes when there is no scripture to back up your claim
once again, how can you know this?
james2ko
Well-Known Member
God would not have said this:
2Pe 1:17-18 For He received from God the Father honor and glory when such a voice came to Him from the Excellent Glory: "This is My beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased." 18 And we heard this voice which came from heaven when we were with Him on the holy mountain.
Read the rest of the NT.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
I can make it even more "simple".....That is your interpretation not mine.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
To deny it is to deny scripture.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Very well. Then I deny your interpretation of scripture.
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
No, read that again. It is very clear in scripture that Jesus disrespected his mother. It is clear and concise.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
Then show it's not.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
I did. But you denied my interpretation of the scriptures.
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fallingblood
Agnostic Theist
If the question is still up, then you obviously did not do a very successful job. And you never really denied that Jesus disrespected his mother. Instead, you tried to explain why. That doesn't really count.
waitasec
Veteran Member
funny, no one else claims to hear the sky daddy's voice...:areyoucra
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Not sure why. If the answer was given. It's just not the answer you were looking for.
I never explained why Jesus disrespected His mother, I explained the how and why Jesus' reprimand of his mother for doing something wrong was not dishonoring her....You're being naughty, fb, by twisting the facts. Not good this time of year
....Nice try, though.
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james2ko
Well-Known Member
Now we're getting somewhere. It's encouraging to see a skeptic attempt to change the subject.
waitasec
Veteran Member
and another thing...
well of course god/peter and the disciples are going to say that in the NT, really? you are obviously too far in it to see the forrest for the trees
where in the world did you get the idea that jesus is god, the NT? no, really :areyoucra
what kind of argument is that? i find it very telling.
context. read the context. did jesus diss his own mother? i would say so.
but you can't accept that. wonder why that would be. i guess being closed minded is a prerequisite for your kind of faith