Can known homosexuals join any Southern Baptist church?

[sojourner]

Well the answer is yes, they can. They will very uncomfortable being members of one of these churches and will most likely be pressured into a pray the gay away scenario. One thing you have to remember about Baptist churches, each and every one of them is fully autonomous. They are all allowed to make up their own rules and bylaws. While there is the Southern Baptist Convention and American Baptist Convention, these are not authoritative heirarchies that the individual churches must bow to. This is why Westboro really is a Baptist church and no one can tell them they can't use the term Baptist. And why some Baptists churches can be so liberal that they will march in a Gay Pride Parade.

Having grown up Southern Baptist I like to do my fair share of Baptist Bashing but if you are looking for an easy target to heap scorn on, it isn't the Baptist Church because there are too many different forms of Baptist to choose from.

Yeah, but the Convention will "excommunicate" congos it doesn't like.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Let me get this straight: Two people are debating here the absolutely vital question of whether it is most -- or it is all -- Southern Baptist churches prohibit gays? Most or all? Really?

Will someone pass me the whisky? I feel a need to overdose.

You need whisky? I find myself defending the Baptist Church, pass me the crack pipe. :faint:

 

[Sunstone]

You need whisky? I find myself defending the Baptist Church, pass me the crack pipe. :faint:

Oh god! If I stop laughing before an hour's up, then I will not have done your joke justice! Hilarious!

 

[sojourner]

Let me get this straight: Two people are debating here the absolutely vital question of whether it is most -- or it is all -- Southern Baptist churches prohibit gays? Most or all? Really?

Will someone pass me the whisky? I feel a need to overdose.

Barkeep!...

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Yeah, but the Convention will "excommunicate" congos it doesn't like.

Sure, but not for accepting gay members so long as they are trying to pray the gay away. Now if they start trying to attract gay members without trying to bring them back into the fold that would be different. Accepting gay members is not a big issue to the church or the convention. Like I said, it is looked at as an opportunity to save a sinner.

 

[sojourner]

Sure, but not for accepting gay members so long as they are trying to pray the gay away. Now if they start trying to attract gay members without trying to bring them back into the fold that would be different. Accepting gay members is not a big issue to the church or the convention. Like I said, it is looked at as an opportunity to save a sinner.

Such a loving and accepting and inclusive attitude. Makes me feel all squishy inside...

or is that bile I sense rising in my throat?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Such a loving and accepting and inclusive attitude. Makes me feel all squishy inside...

or is that bile I sense rising in my throat?

Most likely bile, maybe with a chunk or two floating on top.

The OP asks if the church will allow members, not if they will be nice to them. Personally I really hate it when I hear a Christian say "Hate the Sin, Love the Sinner". They do it with such compassion and love; really makes my skin crawl. *shudder*

 

[Agnostic75]

You demand evidence from me? My evidence is personal experience. As the outsider looking in, it is up to you to show me proof of why my experience with Southern Baptists is wrong and your theory about what you believe them to be like is correct.

Which Southern Baptist church or churches are your referring to? You basically said that some Southern Baptist churches allow openly homosexual people to become members, or to remain members if the church finds out that they are homosexuals. It is reasonable for people to ask you for evidence that backs up your claim. If you had some examples, I assume that you would have mentioned them. If you actually had some examples, I believe that they would be very rare exceptions.

Consider the following:

About Us - Basic Beliefs

I believe our pastor (or my church) has acted inappropriately. What will the SBC do about it?


Actually, the Southern Baptist Convention is not in a position to take any disciplinary action regarding pastors or churches. Again, because of the autonomy of the local church, each SBC church is responsible before God to set its own policies regarding pastors or problems in the church. Such policies are entirely up to the individual congregation.


According to our constitution, if a church no longer makes a bona fide contribution to the Convention's work, or if it acts to "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it no longer complies with the Constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention and is not permitted to send messengers to the annual meeting. These, however, are the only explicitly stated instances in which the SBC has the prerogative to take action. Failure to remain in "friendly cooperation" would also disqualify a church from sending messengers, and is obviously more of a subjective test.

I believe that that means that no church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members is allowed to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

Agnostic, you're missing the point. There is no baptist church in the world that operates under a larger church body. Each church decides for itself if it is accepting of homosexual members. You're asking if there's any one person here who has been to every single Southern Baptist church, and that's absurd. Other than the IFB, pretty much all conservative Christians churches will accept openly homosexual members under two conditions: 1. that they attempt to, as Trey said, pray the gay away, and 2. if they are not able to do this, they have to remain celibate. This is even the teaching in the Catholic church.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I believe that that means that no church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members is allowed to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.

You are assuming that allowing a member who is gay violates this:

or if it acts to "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior,"

But as I have said repeatedly, the member will be pressured to go through various methods of becoming heterosexual. This does not violate the SBC's directive at all but is seen as upholding the view of the SBC. Also, you seem to think there is some pipeline of information that the SBC has on what individual churches do, this isn't so. Someone would have to actually complain to the SBC before they would take notice and it would have to be someone of note, not just any old congregation member.

As for not having examples, it's been 25 years since I attended a Baptist Church and I tend to ignore them as much as possible in Southern Louisiana so no, I don't have an example. I suppose that is a big victory for you, enjoy it if you wish, I still fail to see what it proves though.

 

[Agnostic75]

Agnostic, you're missing the point. There is no baptist church in the world that operates under a larger church body. Each church decides for itself if it is accepting of homosexual members. You're asking if there's any one person here who has been to every single Southern Baptist church, and that's absurd. Other than the IFB, pretty much all conservative Christians churches will accept openly homosexual members under two conditions: 1. that they attempt to, as Trey said, pray the gay away, and 2. if they are not able to do this, they have to remain celibate. This is even the teaching in the Catholic church.

About Us - Basic Beliefs

I believe our pastor (or my church) has acted inappropriately. What will the SBC do about it?

Actually, the Southern Baptist Convention is not in a position to take any disciplinary action regarding pastors or churches. Again, because of the autonomy of the local church, each SBC church is responsible before God to set its own policies regarding pastors or problems in the church. Such policies are entirely up to the individual congregation.

According to our constitution, if a church no longer makes a bona fide contribution to the Convention's work, or if it acts to "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it no longer complies with the Constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention and is not permitted to send messengers to the annual meeting. These, however, are the only explicitly stated instances in which the SBC has the prerogative to take action. Failure to remain in "friendly cooperation" would also disqualify a church from sending messengers, and is obviously more of a subjective test.

I believe that that means that no church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members is allowed to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I certainly never said or implied anything about people checking out "all" Southern Baptist churches. Do you know of "any" Southern Baptist church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members, or to remain church members if the church finds out that they are homosexual?

 

[Agnostic75]

.......I don't have an example.

Thank you.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Thank you.

Enjoy your stunning victory.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

About Us - Basic Beliefs



I believe that that means that no church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members is allowed to be a member of the Southern Baptist Convention.

I certainly never said or implied anything about people checking out "all" Southern Baptist churches. Do you know of "any" Southern Baptist church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members, or to remain church members if the church finds out that they are homosexual?

I don't see there where it states that a SBC that allows homosexual members cannot be a member church of the SBC, only that they are not allowed to take place in the annual meetings.

 

[fallingblood]

I believe that if closet gay people join virtually any Southern Baptist church, and the church eventually finds out that they are gay, they will be lose their membership in the church, and may or may not allowed to continue attending the church.

Why haven't you posted any examples of Southern Baptist churches that allow openly gay people to become members of the church, or that will allow closet gay church members to keep their memberships if the church finds out that they are gay?

Basically everything you say is framed by an assumption. You consistently only show that you have a preconceived notion, and thus your "beliefs" reflect such.

Like has been mentioned, Baptist churches are autonomous. And really, even the number who belong to the SBC is grossly exaggerated. It all has to do with their means of counting members, which simply is greatly flawed.

 

[Agnostic75]

About Us - Basic Beliefs

I believe our pastor (or my church) has acted inappropriately. What will the SBC do about it?


Actually, the Southern Baptist Convention is not in a position to take any disciplinary action regarding pastors or churches. Again, because of the autonomy of the local church, each SBC church is responsible before God to set its own policies regarding pastors or problems in the church. Such policies are entirely up to the individual congregation.


According to our constitution, if a church no longer makes a bona fide contribution to the Convention's work, or if it acts to "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it no longer complies with the Constitution of the Southern Baptist Convention and is not permitted to send messengers to the annual meeting. These, however, are the only explicitly stated instances in which the SBC has the prerogative to take action. Failure to remain in "friendly cooperation" would also disqualify a church from sending messengers, and is obviously more of a subjective test.

Regarding "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it is reasonable to assume that a church allowing openly homosexual people to join a church, or allowing closet homosexual church members to remain church members if it becomes known that they are homosexual, would be considered by the Southern Baptist Convention to affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior.

 

[dyanaprajna2011]

About Us - Basic Beliefs





Regarding "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it is reasonable to assume that a church allowing openly homosexual people to join a church, or allowing closet homosexual church members to remain church members if it becomes known that they are homosexual, would be considered by the Southern Baptist Convention to affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior.

"Affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior" is a vague term. Like I stated earlier, allowing openly homosexual members is fine as long as they abide by one of two stipulations. This is true for most conservative Christian denominations. Following those two stipulations does not go against the bylaws of the SBC.

 

[Agnostic75]

Basically everything you say is framed by an assumption. You consistently only show that you have a preconceived notion, and thus your "beliefs" reflect such.

Like has been mentioned, Baptist churches are autonomous.

But can you provide that name of even one Southern Baptist church that allows openly gay people to become members?

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

Regarding "affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior," it is reasonable to assume that a church allowing openly homosexual people to join a church, or allowing closet homosexual church members to remain church members if it becomes known that they are homosexual, would be considered by the Southern Baptist Convention to affirm, approve, or endorse homosexual behavior.

Why do you believe that this is a reasonable assumption? It is not.

 

[Agnostic75]

It is interesting to note that no one has provided an example of any Southern Baptist church that allows openly homosexual people to become church members. It is easy to find hundreds, if not thousands, that do not.