Can Muslims take women as slaves and then rape them?

[SugarOcean]

It became illegal in Saudi Arabia.

Please provide the source that sustains your statement.

 

[sooda]

Please provide sources to support your statement.

1. The truth behind The Rape of Berlin - Telegraph
   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../11576601/The-truth-behind-The-Rape-of-Berlin.html
   May 02, 2015 · The truth behind The Rape of Berlin As Europe was being liberated from Fascism at the end of World War II, what has been referred to as one of the most infamous incidents of mass rape …
   
   
2. 'They raped every German female from eight to 80' | Books ...
   https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
   May 01, 2002 · 'They raped every German female from eight to 80'. Rape is the act of a conqueror, the feminist historian Susan Brownmiller observed, aimed at the "bodies of the defeated enemy's women" to emphasise his victory. Yet after the initial fury of January 1945 …
3. 
   
4. You have heard of the Roman Empire haven't you?
5. 

If you fought in Roman wars, you got citizenship... That's why Arabs, Egyptians and Syrians fought alongside Titus in 70 AD.

 

[sooda]

The Iman is talking about an up and coming war. They kind of lost their last war where they seemed to assert Muslim ability to rape their captures in the name of their Allah. According to Zechariah 14, their last raping escapade will be on the women in Jerusalem in the up and coming day of Judgment (Joel 3:2) & (Zechariah 14) & (Revelation 16:13-16). My question is does the Iman have any Islam authority to sanction rape, and why are they speaking up now that they have just lost one war, and the warriors in the waiting to invade Jerusalem are the Iranians with their Russian, North Korea, and Pakistani technologies, all helped paid for by our friend Barrack Hussein Obama.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD and all the new Christians left Jerusalem for Pella.

 

[sooda]

Please provide the source that sustains your statement.

Oh I was there in 1952. They were freed on the death of Ibn Saud with a ten year window so they could choose to stay with their families and save money.

 

[England my lionheart]

I forgot to mention the Iddat.

How is what your right hands possess difficult in this instance?

Yes, it is unfortunate those women were captives. It would have been even more unfortunate for them to be left in a destroyed village somewhere with no one to care for them, protect them or give a satisfying life for them. It would also have been more unfortunate to be treated the way they were before Islam. Or the way they still are in places where people don't follow such rules as set in Islam.

Isn't the"iddat" just a period of waiting?,"what your right hand posseses" means ownership,it's looks pretty straight forward,the same thing can be seen in Deuteronomy,there are rules on how to treat your slave/concubines,in my culture it's abohrent to even contemplate owning another human being full stop.

 

[sooda]

Isn't the"iddat" just a period of waiting?,"what your right hand posseses" means ownership,it's looks pretty straight forward,the same thing can be seen in Deuteronomy,there are rules on how to treat your slave/concubines,in my culture it's abohrent to even contemplate owning another human being full stop.

It means waiting 3 months in case there is a pregnancy.

In Islam women can inherit, do business on their own and write their own marriage contract.

 

[SugarOcean]

Oh I was there in 1952. They were freed on the death of Ibn Saud with a ten year window so they could choose to stay with their families and save money.

Are you able to provide the source for your prior and this statement? I note your reply to that request, this reply, does not include the source for your prior statement.That which I requested in my post #221.

 

[sooda]

Are you able to provide the source for your prior and this statement? I note your reply to that request, this reply, does not include the source for your prior statement.That which I requested in my post #221.

See post #222 and grow up.

 

[SugarOcean]

1. The truth behind The Rape of Berlin - Telegraph
   https://www.telegraph.co.uk/.../11576601/The-truth-behind-The-Rape-of-Berlin.html
   May 02, 2015 · The truth behind The Rape of Berlin As Europe was being liberated from Fascism at the end of World War II, what has been referred to as one of the most infamous incidents of mass rape …
   
   
2. 'They raped every German female from eight to 80' | Books ...
   https://www.theguardian.com/books/2002/may/01/news.features11
   May 01, 2002 · 'They raped every German female from eight to 80'. Rape is the act of a conqueror, the feminist historian Susan Brownmiller observed, aimed at the "bodies of the defeated enemy's women" to emphasise his victory. Yet after the initial fury of January 1945 …
3. 
   
4. You have heard of the Roman Empire haven't you?
5. 

If you fought in Roman wars, you got citizenship... That's why Arabs, Egyptians and Syrians fought alongside Titus in 70 AD.

Newspaper reports are your source?

The Telegraph is Conservative slanted.
The Daily Telegraph - New World Encyclopedia

And The Guardian is also partisan bias in that they support Liberal Democrats and "Supports anti-Conservative tactical voting with view to pro-electoral reform coalition." Source: Endorsements in the 2010 United Kingdom general election | Revolvy

Do you have a credible source for your statement that is not a news site?

 

[SugarOcean]

See post #222 and grow up.

I read your citations from two different newspaper reporting sites. One is Conservative bias and one is Liberal bias.
Those are not considered unbiased credible sources for the statements you've made.

Are you able to speak civilly when asked to prove your unsubstantiated statements? Or are you more prone to avoidance of that request for proof of your statements using such tactics as you demonstrate above.

 

[England my lionheart]

It means waiting 3 months in case there is a pregnancy.

In Islam women can inherit, do business on their own and write their own marriage contract.

Yes it's a waiting period but still a captive,a captive is just what it says.

 

[SugarOcean]

Oh I was there in 1952. They were freed on the death of Ibn Saud with a ten year window so they could choose to stay with their families and save money.

Please provide a credible source for your claim. Your alleged presence at what would be a historic event not withstanding. Such a historic event would have been recorded. (In other sources besides newspapers please.)
Your claim, the date of 1952, being 67 years ago would make you far older than 67 so as to have been there and recollect with accuracy, you realize.

The tribulation was over in 70 AD and all the new Christians left Jerusalem for Pella.

Please provide a credible source for your statement.

 

[sooda]

Newspaper reports are your source?

The Telegraph is Conservative slanted.
The Daily Telegraph - New World Encyclopedia

And The Guardian is also partisan bias in that they support Liberal Democrats and "Supports anti-Conservative tactical voting with view to pro-electoral reform coalition." Source: Endorsements in the 2010 United Kingdom general election | Revolvy

Do you have a credible source for your statement that is not a news site?

There are hundreds of sources. Find one you like.

 

[sooda]

Yes it's a waiting period but still a captive,a captive is just what it says.

You can't abandon a war widow in the desert when there is no water and the temperature is 120 degrees.

 

[SugarOcean]

There are hundreds of sources. Find one you like.

The onus is not on any reader here to substantiate your statements.

 

[England my lionheart]

You can't abandon a war widow in the desert when there is no water and the temperature is 120 degrees.

Its not like they have a choice,a slave has none,if they did they wouldn't be a slave,you can of course sugar coat it but it is what it is,slavery.

 

[Wasp]

Isn't the"iddat" just a period of waiting?,"what your right hand posseses" means ownership,it's looks pretty straight forward,the same thing can be seen in Deuteronomy,there are rules on how to treat your slave/concubines,in my culture it's abohrent to even contemplate owning another human being full stop.

Yes. Means they can't be intimate with them for at least until one monthly cycle has passed. If they're pregnant, they can't be intimate with them until they have given birth. So as to your assumption that they wanted to rape the captives. Just saying they can't do that on the spot. (but if a woman is a virgin there is no waiting period of course)

You're culture is 1400 years later than what we're talking about. This kind of thing doesn't happen now in ME either. The whole point was to abolish slavery. But it couldn't have been abolished just like that. There were so many slaves with nothing but their master. And Muslims were encourage to free slaves and to help them get their freedom. (the prophet bought a lot of slaves only to liberate them)They could be married by a Muslim man who gets permission from the master. After which of course intimacy between the latter and the woman ends and again there is the iddat.

 

[sooda]

Its not like they have a choice,a slave has none,if they did they wouldn't be a slave,you can of course sugar coat it but it is what it is,slavery.

No sugar coating it. Life was very hard in Arabia even in 1948. There were many, many blind people, everyone had smallpox scars and 90% of children under two had malaria in the Eastern province. No roads or telephones or cars or schools or hospitals.. I could go on, but you probably wouldn't believe me..

 

[sooda]

Yes. Means they can't be intimate with them for at least until one monthly cycle has passed. If they're pregnant, they can't be intimate with them until they have given birth. So as to your assumption that they wanted to rape the captives. Just saying they can't do that on the spot. (but if a woman is a virgin there is no waiting period of course)

You're culture is 1400 years later than what we're talking about. This kind of thing doesn't happen now in ME either. The whole point was to abolish slavery. But it couldn't have been abolished just like that. There were so many slaves with nothing but their master. And Muslims were encourage to free slaves and to help them get their freedom. (the prophet bought a lot of slaves only to liberate them)They could be married by a Muslim man who gets permission from the master. After which of course intimacy between the latter and the woman ends and again there is the iddat.

We had a sweet houseboy named Mubarak... He was freed in 1953, but continued to work for several years to save money for his return to Sudan. By 1963 that window had closed and they were free whether they wanted to b free or not.

 

[Wasp]

Its not like they have a choice,a slave has none,if they did they wouldn't be a slave,you can of course sugar coat it but it is what it is,slavery.

In Islam (to which a lot of the captives converted) the main objective is Jannah. A slave has different rights in this world among people, but not with Allah. They are equal to everyone else. All their sufferings and ease is degreed by Allah beforehand. And they will be rewarded for patience and righteousness.

Mentioned before, slapping a captive would set them free. They were not to be abused.