Can Muslims take women as slaves and then rape them?

[Wasp]

No. It was in the first law book written according to Islamic law. Slapping a captive automatically set them free.

Some of the companions of the prophet were punished for raping their captives. What followed according to the law was the woman was free, the man was punished for adultery (usually death) and was required to pay compensation for the woman.

A man could be intimate with a captive without marrige as the Qur'an states. But this was only possible with conditions, such as that the woman was a believer, that she was not married, that she had passed the waiting period and that she gave her consent.

If she did give consent her position became equal to a wife in the household.

 

[England my lionheart]

No. It was in the first law book written according to Islamic law. Slapping a captive automatically set them free.

Some of the companions of the prophet were punished for raping their captives. What followed according to the law was the woman was free, the man was punished for adultery (usually death) and was required to pay compensation for the woman.

A man could be intimate with a captive without marrige as the Qur'an states. But this was only possible with conditions, such as that the woman was a believer, that she was not married, that she had passed the waiting period and that she gave her consent.

If she did give consent her position became equal to a wife in the household.

Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri: We got female captives in the war booty and we used to do coitus interruptus with them. So we asked Allah's Apostle about it and he said, "Do you really do that?" repeating the question thrice, "There is no soul that is destined to exist but will come into existence, till the Day of Resurrection."
Sahih Bukhari 7:62:137

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459

This is nothing out of the ordinary for ancient cultures.

 

[stvdv]

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459

Interesting quote of the Prophet.

At first I thought Muhammed meant "better not to rape the women you captured"

But reading more closely, I got the feeling Muhammad meant "better not coitus interrupts ... the raping is fine". Because their question was explicitly about "Coitus interruptus" (they did not think to ask "would raping be okay") AND the context (souls predestined to exists with/without coitus interruptus) tells us the same

If my second feeling is true, then Mohammed went back a notch in my esteem.
But many times the first thought is the correct one; I hope so this time also.

 

[England my lionheart]

Interesting quote of the Prophet.

At first I thought Muhammed meant "better not to rape the women you captured"

But reading more closely, I got the feeling Muhammad meant "better not coitus interrupts ... the raping is fine". Because their question was explicitly about "Coitus interruptus" (they did not think to ask "would raping be okay") AND the context (souls predestined to exists with/without coitus interruptus) tells us the same

If my second feeling is true, then Mohammed went back a notch in my esteem.
But many times the first thought is the correct one; I hope so this time also.

Your second feeling is the correct one,that's the way it reads to me.

 

[sooda]

Interesting quote of the Prophet.

At first I thought Muhammed meant "better not to rape the women you captured"

But reading more closely, I got the feeling Muhammad meant "better not coitus interrupts ... the raping is fine". Because their question was explicitly about "Coitus interruptus" (they did not think to ask "would raping be okay") AND the context (souls predestined to exists with/without coitus interruptus) tells us the same

If my second feeling is true, then Mohammed went back a notch in my esteem.
But many times the first thought is the correct one; I hope so this time also.

It was impossible for a woman alone to survive in Arabia. That's why every woman needed to be part of a family, clan and tribe. Most wives were widows or unmarried sisters , or maiden aunts.. even grandmothers known to the extended family.

 

[stvdv]

Narrated Ibn Muhairiz: "I entered the mosque and saw Abu Khudri and sat beside him and asked him about coitus interruptus. Abu said, "We went out with Allah's messenger for the Ghazwa (attack upon) Banu Mustaliq and we received captives from among the Arab captives and we desired women and celibacy became hard on us and we loved to do coitus interruptus. So when we intended to do coitus interruptus we said "How can we do coitus interruptus without asking Allah's messenger while he is present among us?" We asked (him) about it and he said "It is better for you not to do so, for if any soul (till the Day of Resurrection) is predestined to exist, it will exist."
Sahih Bukhari 5:59:459

At first I thought Muhammed meant "better not to rape the women you captured"

But reading more closely, I got the feeling Muhammad meant "better not coitus interrupts ... the raping is fine". Because their question was explicitly about "Coitus interruptus" (they did not think to ask "would raping be okay") AND the context (souls predestined to exists with/without coitus interruptus) tells us the same

Your second feeling is the correct one,that's the way it reads to me.

Hypothetical: Muhammad meant "No coitus interruptus, raping women is okay"

My first feeling is: "This can't be a man of God, because, if one sees injustice (raping women) and does nothing (not correcting their men/soldiers, who even ask you for permission/advice on coitus interruptus [everyone should know that rape is involved in this], then one is as guilty as the ones who commit the crime (of rape)".

Second feeling: "Even if rape was normal in these days, then we must conclude today, that there are errors in the Koran (meaning "can't be used today") when you look at the Koran with the knowledge and wisdom we have now".

 

[stvdv]

It was impossible for a woman alone to survive in Arabia. That's why every woman needed to be part of a family, clan and tribe. Most wives were widows or unmarried sisters , or maiden aunts.. even grandmothers known to the extended family.

You replied to my message, but I fail to see what this has to do with the issue I was talking about.

 

[stvdv]

It was impossible for a woman alone to survive in Arabia. That's why every woman needed to be part of a family, clan and tribe. Most wives were widows or unmarried sisters , or maiden aunts.. even grandmothers known to the extended family.

"how you write this" seems not fair to women (I am a man, but even I can feel that).

Better to say IMO:"Men in those days were worse than animals, raping women. That is the reason a woman could not survive alone in Arabia".

How you phrased it gives me the feeling "woman need man to survive in Arabia". How I see it "Women need men to stop raping women".
The true context is essential and should not be left out IMO. No need to make men of these days look nice (not barbaric).

Many Muslim picture Muhammad also as a fine young man. Reality is that he seemed not to have stopped his soldiers from raping women, instead encouraging them "no coitus interruptus", meaning they even get a child from the rape, so their emotional life is even more messed up (remembering everyday the rape that happened in the past). Must be horror for women in these days. We should tell the truth, otherwise these horrors continue to happen. They still do. Priests rape boys, nuns rape girls, and I have no illusion that Islam is any better (especially in those days).

 

[sooda]

Your second feeling is the correct one,that's the way it reads to me.

Do you understand the iddah?

Arabs had multiple wives Before Islam.. Muhammed forbid the exposure of infant girls.. Which probably makes no sense to you either.

In any case most hadiths came from Persia 200 years after the death of Muhammed.

 

[sooda]

"how you write this" seems not fair to women (I am a man, but even I can feel that).

Better to say IMO:"Men in those days were worse than animals, raping women. That is the reason a woman could not survive alone in Arabia".

How you phrased it gives me the feeling "woman need man to survive in Arabia". How I see it "Women need men to stop raping women".
The true context is essential and should not be left out IMO. No need to make men of these days look nice (not barbaric).

Many Muslim picture Muhammad also as a fine young man. Reality is that he seemed not to have stopped his soldiers from raping women, instead encouraging them "no coitus interruptus", meaning they even get a child from the rape, so their emotional life is even more messed up (remembering everyday the rape that happened in the past). Must be horror for women in these days. We should tell the truth, otherwise these horrors continue to happen. They still do. Priests rape boys, nuns rape girls, and I have no illusion that Islam is any better (especially in those days).

If you had seen Arabia before the oil age, you'd know why women couldn't survive without a family.

 

[England my lionheart]

Hypothetical: Muhammad meant "No coitus interruptus, raping women is okay"

My first feeling is: "This can't be a man of God, because, if one sees injustice (raping women) and does nothing (not correcting their men/soldiers, who even ask you for permission/advice on coitus interruptus [everyone should know that rape is involved in this), then one is as guilty as the ones who commit the crime (of rape)".

Second feeling: "Even if rape was normal in these days, then we must conclude today, that there are errors in the Koran (meaning "can't be used today") when you look at the Koran with the knowledge and wisdom we have now".

Yes your right in both cases,btw I'm not saying that because it wasn't out of the ordinary back then it makes it any less of a vile crime.

 

[England my lionheart]

Do you understand the iddah?

Arabs had multiple wives Before Islam.. Muhammed forbid the exposure of infant girls.. Which probably makes no sense to you either.

In any case most hadiths came from Persia 200 years after the death of Muhammed.

The issue here are slave girls/women,"what your right hand posseses" ,Muhammed appears to have no concern for rape,only the issue of coitus interruptus,not impressive cinh from a so called prophet.

 

[sooda]

The issue here are slave girls/women,"what your right hand posseses" ,Muhammed appears to have no concern for rape,only the issue of coitus interruptus,not impressive cinh from a so called prophet.

"what your right hand posseses" means thru wedlock.

 

[England my lionheart]

"what your right hand posseses" means thru wedlock.

Posseses through slavery.

 

[Notanumber]

Yes your right in both cases,btw I'm not saying that because it wasn't out of the ordinary back then it makes it any less of a vile crime.

It is still going on in the UK.

Huddersfield GROOMING GANG - An Update

 

[Audie]

That already happened. Arabs, Syrians and Persians fought with the Roman Legions in 70 AD.

If you are concerned about rape in warfare. Look at the number of rapes in occupied Berlin at the end of WW2.

Berlin was love-in at golden Gate Park in SF compared
to what the japanese did in china.

But then, the point is that the bible or the koran
supply all the justification any good believer needs,
if they want to enslave, kill, or rape someone.

 

[England my lionheart]

It is still going on in the UK.

Huddersfield GROOMING GANG - An Update

Its disgusting what happened there,this is the problem when precedents have been made to follow.

 

[Audie]

They always paid well enough that foreign workers had enough money to support large extended families in their countries of origin.

Even in civilized places like Hong Kong and Singapore, the
foreign domestic workers are frequently subject to a lot of
physical, mental, financial and emotional abuse. There
is little recourse in the legal system, as it is stacked against
them.

The women sacrifice themselves for their family, a quiet
heroism little comprehended or appreciated.

Most of them send all of their income home to their
families. It is never enough to support a large extended
family. Impossible. They can help out, but the
notion that they get paid well and can support
an extended family is just bs.

I personally have written the checks for Filipina
maids, I know what they get paid. And I
always paid them something extra.

I would not try to sugar coat the discrimination and
hard / unfair conditions in HK and Spore.

As harsh as conditions can be in HK and Singapore, they
are vastly better than in the middle eastern countries.
Many families will not allow their daughters to go there,
no matter how desperate the need.

 

[SA Huguenot]

But then, the point is that the bible or the koran

Thats news, Please show me where Jesus instructs me to rape, torture pimp and kill.
I will wait

 

[Audie]

Thats news, Please show me where Jesus instructs me to rape, torture pimp and kill.
I will wait

What would be news would be for you to have
the honesty to post my entire quote,not your
bowdlerized version.

I will wait for you to behave a little better.