Can Real Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam?

[love]

I am so thankful that the world is not my judge for I would surely go to hell. God is my judge and He alone can discern my heart. I believe that the greatess commandment of all is to LOVE thy neighbor. Let us all pray for love and understanding of our neighbors around the world and leave judgement up to God who knows our hearts.

 

[TashaN]

The vast majority of Muslims want what the vast majority of human beings want. To live in peace and prosperity.

Wow, thank God you know about this.

However, the Islamic World hasn't learned yet how to do this.
It's their governments that instigate the .......
It's their governments that refuse to ...
And it's religious leaders that make their living off of hate-speech that ....
It's extremely difficult to find anything true about the west in the Arab world.

Just stop invading them and screwing up their way of life and no one will give a damn about what's going on in the west. Just leave their countries alone, that's the simple, frank and plain answer for all of this mess.

But this doesn't say anything about Muslims. Look at Muslims in America. They are no different, no more violent, no more or less anything than Christians, Jews, Hindus, and Pagans in America. They love peace, they are kind, and they are tolerant. If Muslims in the Arab world lived in a culture and political system like we have here in America, chances are they would be the same way.

That's because they are INSIDE not OUTSIDE, because once they are outside of america, as muslims, they have no rights at all but inside of the US, they still have got some rights which is absolutely less than the others, just because they are muslims.

 

[Navigator]

What about teachings like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigzCJJ1PLw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pM5PWj0Uc&mode=related&search=

This type of Islam seems to be spreading not peacful Islamic message.
Each day these videos are moved or harder to find so if the link does not work go to youtube and seach for "undercover mosque".

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

What about teachings like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigzCJJ1PLw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pM5PWj0Uc&mode=related&search=

This type of Islam seems to be spreading not peacful Islamic message.
Each day these videos are moved or harder to find so if the link does not work go to youtube and seach for "undercover mosque".

Spreading where and who cares these guys will never take over the majority. Anyways where is the evidence that what they say is in lines with Islam. I watched and did not hear any hadiths of the Messenger or quotes from Quran.

they were videos of opinions people are entitled to their opinion. this is what it is you can percieve that this type of stuff is Islam. when it is validated no where in the religion. Here is an analogy for you that is like saying that homesexuals should be the leaders of the what is known as main stream Christianity. IT IS NOT A PART OF IT NOR IS IT ACCEPTED IN YOUR RELIGION. Same for us. This type of stuff is spreading no where where I live. We have over 120 mosques in my city one of the most heavly populated areas in the country. And I have never seen it. Now I am not saying it does not exist but I have been all the masjids in pretty much every area aside from the few that have small jummats. I have never seen this stuff.

This stuff will never get headway this is not the methodology of the minds coming out of medina or makkeh. So lets those guys rant and rave about who is doing what where and why. It does not matter. All these things bad that are going on in the world. All this corruption, lies, and terrorizm on a global scale on all levels by many mulitfaceted governments. If those guys knew their relgion they would know it is not the changing of a king, removing them from office or pointing the finger is what will change the condition of the people. Only when the people change the conditions of their heart and bringing them back to Allah will it get more blessed.

Peace.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

For chrisitans and views the simplest truth given to us both were these
love god
love your neighbour as yourself

truly if everyone followed these two tenets there would be no strife suffering or hatred merely a nation of god filled with the treasure of heaven (love).

Well it is not the majority who are breaking these laws. It is those who do not even accept the ideology or contradict what is a univeral truth amongst all three semitic religions.

It is the few and privileged who are breaking these things. All now is for everyone to recognize that these are the people who are causing the problems and become univeral and completely together on all fronts to tell them we want to change. But we all of us must make effort and do all we can and then leave the rest to God for He is the One who will make it so or not so. Allah has promised us many things and He never breaks His promise. Islam will be victorious Paradise is true and Hellfire is true.
[for true islam fights oppression in all forms and it will we just have to be patient for the powers at be will do everything they can to try and stop Allah's religion but muslims will fight to the end, and then we will go and see Allah and tell Him we fought for Him to stamp out one of the things He hates most, oppression]

I mean these guys are the disease and the radical terrorizm is a symptom of what they bring. So that is the deal hope you like my analogy.

But you know the nature of the beast will not allow that and the desires of man will not allow that either. Man's heart is too saturated with attachment to this life and not concentrating on the status of them in the hereafter with the Creator after He judges all man on the issue of did you worship only Me and submit no partners to Me. Did you give My rights to something I created. And did you accept my Messenger whom I sent to you as a warner and a guide to the way to seek My forgiveness and bounty and abstain and protect you from the Most Horrible of Punishment which is Hell fire.

People only focus on the here and now and are not willing to sacrifice their desires of the heart to please Allah.

Anways, sorry I started to rant, I apologize I hope this helps.

 

[TashaN]

What about teachings like this?

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=peFQWuk4nuo

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NigzCJJ1PLw&mode=related&search=

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=j-pM5PWj0Uc&mode=related&search=

This type of Islam seems to be spreading not peacful Islamic message.
Each day these videos are moved or harder to find so if the link does not work go to youtube and seach for "undercover mosque".

Yeah i saw the first link. It's working pretty well and i assumed the rest are somthing similar.

I would be a naive to assume that all muslims are good and really behave like what prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" taught us. I'm not blaming you in here for posting that without knowing about the real soul of Islam because i might do the same if i were you maybe, especially with the massive media preasure and heat about muslims you have overthere.

Anyway, regarding these videos, it doesn't reperesent islam and you can search in the entire Quran for anything from what the video was trying to portray but you will find NONE of that nonsense about Islam which some people in greenland or whatever were trying to say without any prove from the Quran nor the Sunnah.

Another thing, which is that, the video was showing saudian tv and muslims all around the world then they focused in a specific area and with some people to make you assume that all muslims entire the world are working behind you to kill you and spread lies in front of you. Excuse me? that's called hypocrisy.

For instance, they just cut specific words out of those people's mouth and also they say things will no children will say .... kill the Kuffarrrrr , we hate the kuffarrr, bla bla.

Please dear Navigato, read with me these clear verses and tell me what you think ...

[8] Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.


[9] Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out, of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:8).

Now the time have come to watch these videos for me as i watched yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmMdPKw378

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nolNcJ1G7w

If you have more questions please do ask.


Peace and blessing,

TT

 

[Laila]

What about teachings like this?

seach for "undercover mosque".

I'm proud that a lot of muslims in the UK were involved in making this dispatches documentary. The preachers in the mosques as so 'unislamic' it's outrageous. People who insist on spreading lies and hatred must be exposed.
These preachers in the mosques don't care for humanity never mind Islam - they are totally wrong.

 

[Navigator]

Well it is not the majority who are breaking these laws. It is those who do not even accept the ideology or contradict what is a univeral truth amongst all three semitic religions.

It is the few and privileged who are breaking these things. All now is for everyone to recognize that these are the people who are causing the problems and become univeral and completely together on all fronts to tell them we want to change. But we all of us must make effort and do all we can and then leave the rest to God for He is the One who will make it so or not so. Allah has promised us many things and He never breaks His promise. Islam will be victorious Paradise is true and Hellfire is true.
[for true islam fights oppression in all forms and it will we just have to be patient for the powers at be will do everything they can to try and stop Allah's religion but muslims will fight to the end, and then we will go and see Allah and tell Him we fought for Him to stamp out one of the things He hates most, oppression]

I mean these guys are the disease and the radical terrorizm is a symptom of what they bring. So that is the deal hope you like my analogy.

But you know the nature of the beast will not allow that and the desires of man will not allow that either. Man's heart is too saturated with attachment to this life and not concentrating on the status of them in the hereafter with the Creator after He judges all man on the issue of did you worship only Me and submit no partners to Me. Did you give My rights to something I created. And did you accept my Messenger whom I sent to you as a warner and a guide to the way to seek My forgiveness and bounty and abstain and protect you from the Most Horrible of Punishment which is Hell fire.

People only focus on the here and now and are not willing to sacrifice their desires of the heart to please Allah.

Anways, sorry I started to rant, I apologize I hope this helps.

Yes, it does help, and I hope you are right in regards to what the Quran teaches. My interpetation of it so far, have only read parts of it, is inconsistent with some of what you say. Not sure if this is the forum for that debate or not.

There are some areas of Muhammeds life in the Hadith regarding peace that are also inconsistent with things you say. Maybe it was a different time period, but man has been fighting and at war since we were created. If love dominates your life you can be peaceful in ANY situation especially when you are in control, not just when you are under someone elses. I have been told, not by anybody here, I come across gruff and argumentative.
If so I apologize, not my intention, my congenial side is lacking.

 

[Laila]

Now the time have come to watch these videos for me as i watched yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmMdPKw378

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nolNcJ1G7w

Thanks for sharing

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Yes, it does help, and I hope you are right in regards to what the Quran teaches. My interpetation of it so far, have only read parts of it, is inconsistent with some of what you say. Not sure if this is the forum for that debate or not.

Because you do not know the order of the revelation nor the history of the Prophet nor do you have the Tafsir or hadith. You do not know the context how are you to understand any of it and you do not speak arabic so you are using the judgment of the translator.

There are some areas of Muhammeds life in the Hadith regarding peace that are also inconsistent with things you say.

for example. Please give me all the verses and things you have regarding this issue. ALL OF THEM. I will answer them all insha Allah, you can PM me or here and we can do it one on one is you want. I study under this man and attend this school arees.org

you even see me on the video. But please do that it is very important to me that we can understand it together it will take patiece, and effort. If you are will to take the journey I am willing to give you a ride and show you around.

Hopefully when I have some more time I am going to continue a post I started here on the life of Muhammed from Abraham to Muhammed. This will give you insight as to what was going on in the life. for the verses in Quran where surrounding events in the Messengers life, addressing different groups of people on many different issues. giving guidance and show how to have the proper behaviour and displaying the mercy of Allah. So it is important for you to have that before you can fully understand it. Or we can as I said do it privately.

Maybe it was a different time period, but man has been fighting and at war since we were created. If love dominates your life you can be peaceful in ANY situation especially when you are in control, not just when you are under someone elses. I have been told, not by anybody here, I come across gruff and argumentative.
If so I apologize, not my intention, my congenial side is lacking.

Not in all instances what if you are not in control for that is how life is A person will not always be in control of what happens he just has to be ready when it comes. What if the person will has a knife with the intention of killing you. How much love can you demonstrate before you may have to decide to kill that man if he is there to harm you, or your family, or your brothers or sisters.

Look at Ghenghis Khan and these types of leaders who ravaged the world. Do you think love will stop them in their tracks. If someone who is devoid of love is trying to harm you, what do you do then. There is a big difference between oppression and oppressor.

If you are oppressed what peaceful measures do you suggest I use if someone has a knife to my wives throat, or my throat. I am a martial artist what do you think I am gonna do. What if someone pulls a gun on you, how much love are you gonna show him. And after i show the love and he shoots and kills me then what. What if he loves to kill and murder why send the man to a buffet.

If you are able to do something to stop oppression and tyranny then do it and do all means within the limits to do it. That is true love because you want what is due that person's God given rights. And you will defend it with your life that is true love. If your family was in a life or death situation would you hesitate in giving your own life. No man would, so why ask of a man in terms of God. I will defend Allah, His Messenger, and the principles of my religion with everything they got. If they come with the mouth, i come with mine, they come with the pen, I come with mine. they come with a group I come with my tai chi or broad sword and my deadly form. I would gladly give my life for my Creator or my brother or sister in humanity if it pleases Him, the Most Merciful Allah. Even for you.

You see, the verse in Surah Baqarah is the first verse revealed about Jihad fight but do not transgress the limits. Then the Messenger told us the limits. these were the first things revealed. Do you know what the limits are?

If you know what they are you know that they cannot go past them. If you know what they are you will see that

Read Surah Hajj I think where Allah says he sends the creation to check on another and if it weren't for that every mosque,church,and synagogue Allahs names would be mentioned would be destroyed.

You see it is not the true muslims or true christians who are causing the issues. there is another element involved. But the first thing is to understand each other. So we can begin whenever you are ready.

Again sorry for rambling I have to much in my brain sometimes.

 

[Navigator]

Yeah i saw the first link. It's working pretty well and i assumed the rest are somthing similar.

I would be a naive to assume that all muslims are good and really behave like what prophet Mohammed "peace be upon him" taught us. I'm not blaming you in here for posting that without knowing about the real soul of Islam because i might do the same if i were you maybe, especially with the massive media preasure and heat about muslims you have overthere.

I agree I think that is true in all religions, it seems to me that this flavor of Islam is the one growing and I don't see many Muslims united against it, rather conforming to it. Considering the coercive tactics and teachings in the Quran I see it is snowballing out of control. Are you willing to step out of your comfort zone, risking your safety, to stand against it?

Anyway, regarding these videos, it doesn't reperesent islam and you can search in the entire Quran for anything from what the video was trying to portray but you will find NONE of that nonsense about Islam which some people in greenland or whatever were trying to say without any prove from the Quran nor the Sunnah.

Does Muhammed represent Islam? Did he not teach the fundementals they are teaching in his Hadith?

Another thing, which is that, the video was showing saudian tv and muslims all around the world then they focused in a specific area and with some people to make you assume that all muslims entire the world are working behind you to kill you and spread lies in front of you. Excuse me? that's called hypocrisy.

I do not believe all Muslims are represented in those videos.
I do believe, based on their tactics, this minority will take over the majority of Muslims if something is not done.

For instance, they just cut specific words out of those people's mouth and also they say things will no children will say .... kill the Kuffarrrrr , we hate the kuffarrr, bla bla.

Please dear Navigato, read with me these clear verses and tell me what you think ...

[8] Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

To me that says it is ok to be peaceful. Doesn't say you can't attack them.

[9] Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out, of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:8).

This only forbids you from making peace with your enemy.

Now the time have come to watch these videos for me as i watched yours.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VqmMdPKw378

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-nolNcJ1G7w

If you have more questions please do ask.


Peace and blessing,

TT

I have watched those and there are many more. How would you expect their response to be? They are proficient deceivers. Just my opinion.

Peace and blessing, to you also.

 

[Ori]

On an induvidual basis it can work (from my experience ).

If both groups can learn to see the brilliance in each others religion, rather than fighting over differences, there may be hope ( yes I said hope, don't be so shocked).

 

[Laila]

I agree I think that is true in all religions, it seems to me that this flavor of Islam is the one growing and I don't see many Muslims united against it, rather conforming to it. Considering the coercive tactics and teachings in the Quran I see it is snowballing out of control. Are you willing to step out of your comfort zone, risking your safety, to stand against it?

Have you heard of the muslim educational centre of Oxford? People are stepping out against it, hence the making of the documentary!!

Does Muhammed represent Islam? Did he not teach the fundementals they are teaching in his Hadith?

Muhammed was a prophet that brought us the final revelation, which is the Quran.
If people have forsaken the Quran that is not Muhammed's fault is it?

I do not believe all Muslims are represented in those videos.
I do believe, based on their tactics, this minority will take over the majority of Muslims if something is not done.

The video represents a minority of **** wits. Try as they may but the minority will not take over the majority of sensible people.

 

[Navigator]

Because you do not know the order of the revelation nor the history of the Prophet nor do you have the Tafsir or hadith. You do not know the context how are you to understand any of it and you do not speak arabic so you are using the judgment of the translator.

I use http://www.islamicity.com/mosque/SURAI.HTM and http://www.usc.edu/dept/MSA/reference/searchhadith.html

for example. Please give me all the verses and things you have regarding this issue. ALL OF THEM. I will answer them all insha Allah, you can PM me or here and we can do it one on one is you want. I study under this man and attend this school arees.org

That would take enormous time and our idea of context would differ.

you even see me on the video. But please do that it is very important to me that we can understand it together it will take patiece, and effort. If you are will to take the journey I am willing to give you a ride and show you around.

Hopefully when I have some more time I am going to continue a post I started here on the life of Muhammed from Abraham to Muhammed. This will give you insight as to what was going on in the life. for the verses in Quran where surrounding events in the Messengers life, addressing different groups of people on many different issues. giving guidance and show how to have the proper behaviour and displaying the mercy of Allah. So it is important for you to have that before you can fully understand it. Or we can as I said do it privately.

Why would it be neccessary to do private?

Not in all instances what if you are not in control for that is how life is A person will not always be in control of what happens he just has to be ready when it comes. What if the person will has a knife with the intention of killing you. How much love can you demonstrate before you may have to decide to kill that man if he is there to harm you, or your family, or your brothers or sisters.

What did Jesus do?

Look at Ghenghis Khan and these types of leaders who ravaged the world. Do you think love will stop them in their tracks. If someone who is devoid of love is trying to harm you, what do you do then. There is a big difference between oppression and oppressor.

I agree we have a right to protect ourselves, but, at the end of the day, the only thing that will stop hate is love.

If you are oppressed what peaceful measures do you suggest I use if someone has a knife to my wives throat, or my throat. I am a martial artist what do you think I am gonna do. What if someone pulls a gun on you, how much love are you gonna show him. And after i show the love and he shoots and kills me then what. What if he loves to kill and murder why send the man to a buffet.

Again I say defend yourself, but God is in control of everything regardless of the action you take. Nothing happens out of Gods will.

If you are able to do something to stop oppression and tyranny then do it and do all means within the limits to do it. That is true love because you want what is due that person's God given rights. And you will defend it with your life that is true love. If your family was in a life or death situation would you hesitate in giving your own life. No man would, so why ask of a man in terms of God. I will defend Allah, His Messenger, and the principles of my religion with everything they got. If they come with the mouth, i come with mine, they come with the pen, I come with mine. they come with a group I come with my tai chi or broad sword and my deadly form. I would gladly give my life for my Creator or my brother or sister in humanity if it pleases Him, the Most Merciful Allah. Even for you.

Fighting only gives power to more hate.

You see, the verse in Surah Baqarah is the first verse revealed about Jihad fight but do not transgress the limits. Then the Messenger told us the limits. these were the first things revealed. Do you know what the limits are?

There are limits regarding defending Allah?

If you know what they are you know that they cannot go past them. If you know what they are you will see that

Read Surah Hajj I think where Allah says he sends the creation to check on another and if it weren't for that every mosque,church,and synagogue Allahs names would be mentioned would be destroyed.

You see it is not the true muslims or true christians who are causing the issues. there is another element involved. But the first thing is to understand each other. So we can begin whenever you are ready.

Again sorry for rambling I have to much in my brain sometimes.

At least we agree on the other element.
Peace

 

[Navigator]

Does Muhammed represent Islam? Did he not teach the fundementals they are teaching in his Hadith?

Muhammed was a prophet that brought us the final revelation, which is the Quran.
If people have forsaken the Quran that is not Muhammed's fault is it?

I believe that was a redirect, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and rephrase the question.
Does the way Muhammed lived his life better reflect yours or these radicals?

The video represents a minority of **** wits. Try as they may but the minority will not take over the majority of sensible people.

In Birmingham is that one of the largest most well known mosques?

 

[Navigator]

8] Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

To me that says it is ok to be peaceful. Doesn't say you can't attack them.

[9] Allah only forbids you, with regard to those who fight you for (your) Faith, and drive you out, of your homes, and support (others) in driving you out, from turning to them (for friendship and protection). It is such as turn to them (in these circumstances), that do wrong. (Quran 60:8).

This only forbids you from making peace with your enemy.

I am surprised no one has challenged my interpetation.

 

[arielmessenger]

with peace in our world. It isn't the people--it is the religious teachings found in each of the three top dog Abrahamic faiths that continue to divide people, e.g., Jews with a historical knowledge that yes, indeed, New Testament based Christianity has led to violent acts against Jews, and yes indeed, Christians in Muslim ruled nations cannot practice their religions, e.g. proselytizing.

What to do? God has heard and has answered. A new Universal Abrahamic faith has evolved: the new Religion of Peace. God, knowing human propensity to take anything written as Scripture as if God Itself had written it, now refuses to provide any new Scriptures to divide believers. The new Word of God isn't written but even without a new book of words God has given Its new instructions for the New Millennium conditions. The new Word of God is in Israel now, awaiting entry into Jerusalem's most sacred site. It is up to Muslims, Jews and Christians to recognize God's newest ambassador of peace. If they do not, there will be continuing religious warfare. If they do, God as the Source of peace will once again be worshipped at Jerusalem and peace will spread outwards to the Holy Land, then to all the Middle East, and then to all the world. But God is demanding that peace must be honored and cherished as the most important of all God's instructions for the New Age.

 

[lunamoth]

with peace in our world. It isn't the people--it is the religious teachings found in each of the three top dog Abrahamic faiths that continue to divide people, e.g., Jews with a historical knowledge that yes, indeed, New Testament based Christianity has led to violent acts against Jews, and yes indeed, Christians in Muslim ruled nations cannot practice their religions, e.g. proselytizing.

What to do? God has heard and has answered. A new Universal Abrahamic faith has evolved: the new Religion of Peace. God, knowing human propensity to take anything written as Scripture as if God Itself had written it, now refuses to provide any new Scriptures to divide believers. The new Word of God isn't written but even without a new book of words God has given Its new instructions for the New Millennium conditions. The new Word of God is in Israel now, awaiting entry into Jerusalem's most sacred site. It is up to Muslims, Jews and Christians to recognize God's newest ambassador of peace. If they do not, there will be continuing religious warfare. If they do, God as the Source of peace will once again be worshipped at Jerusalem and peace will spread outwards to the Holy Land, then to all the Middle East, and then to all the world. But God is demanding that peace must be honored and cherished as the most important of all God's instructions for the New Age.

So is the new Word of God a person, object, idea or spirit?

And what, exactly, is new?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

I am surprised no one has challenged my interpetation.

Re-read the verse. The first thing it says is Allah forbids...... That is a direct order not to fight those who are not fighting you. It is not merely saying you may be peaceful if you wish but...... You see? It really can't get any clearer than that.

 

[Navigator]

Re-read the verse. The first thing it says is Allah forbids...... That is a direct order not to fight those who are not fighting you. It is not merely saying you may be peaceful if you wish but...... You see? It really can't get any clearer than that.

8] Allah forbids you not, with regard to those who fight you not for (your) Faith nor drive you out of your homes, from dealing kindly and justly with them: for Allah loveth those who are just.

But it says "Allah forbids you not..." That means you may do it ...correct?