Can Real Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam?

[Laila]

I believe that was a redirect, but I will give you the benefit of doubt and rephrase the question.
Does the way Muhammed lived his life better reflect yours or these radicals?

Muhammed followed the laws of the Quran and lived his life according to it; the radicals (you've identified from the video) however preach against the teachings of the Quran so the way Muhammed lived his life cannot reflect these radicals can it? It's just common sense. Radicals can create fanciful ideas and attribute it to Muhammed but that does not mean it is correct.

In Birmingham is that one of the largest most well known mosques?

Still a minority compared with the number of muslims in the UK.

 

[Laila]

But it says "Allah forbids you not..." That means you may do it ...correct?

God forbids you not......what? Dis you read the rest of the verse?
The verse deals with justice. It is telling you to fight oppresion and injustice not fight for the sake of it. Goodness me!

 

[Laila]

And what, exactly, is new?

In my opinion there is no such concept as new or old the message was and is always the same. Peace can only be achieved when we re-focus our minds upon sublime spirituality instead of constantly trying to enforce ones belief on the other.

 

[UnityNow101]

I am in the middle of reading the Quran right now and must say that what I have read so far has nothing to do with a violent religion. When Muhammed spoke of fighting the infidels, it was always in response to someone attacking them. Infact, the Quran speaks quite often about how believers should try to promote peace and it also states that you should not fight unless you are attacked first. I have not read the whole Quran, but so far it has been very enlightening to me. Muhammed seems to be accepting of Christians and Jews, so long as they do not add gods to God.

 

[TashaN]

Unless and until Islam goes through something similar to the Christian Reformation, I don't think there is much chance of there being large scale peace between Christianity and Islam. Even afterwards, it may not be likely. From an outsider's perspective (me being neither a Christian nor a Muslim) it appears to me, that Islam, on a Politico/Religious spectrum is situated in a place similar to Christianity prior to the Reformation.

I think that i would say the same thing as you do if i was an "outsider" like yourself. But the fact which you must get an attention to is that the Church was in charge in the case of christianity unlike Islam. In Islam we don't choose the most religious one nor any mosque or religious movement have any power to choose who will lead us. It have been and always will be about "Shura" which is, to choose the best leader for Muslims by people.

Nowadays with the current political systems in muslims countries, i can tell you for sure that most of their leaders are secular even though some of them still use Quran and Sunnah as their law. What have been going nowadays have not been blessed offecially by any islamic government around the world nor by muslim famous clerics as it was the case with Christianity and the Crusade who were offecially representing their country and belief system.

Mideavel Europe was dominated by the Church in much the same way that Islam dominates the political and social structures of many Muslim countries today.

Not at all.

I watch in horror at video clips on the internet at sites such as TheNausea.com which shows what is going on in North Africa, The Middle East, etc. . . . and see people getting hands and feet cut off, Jews such as Daniel Pearl getting their heads cut off with a butcher's knife, Infidels such as Nick Berg suffering the same fate, and I am overwhelmed by the similarities in what is going on in modern times in the Islamic world and what happened in the Dark Ages of Christian Europe.

Just because you see some cases so that doesn't mean it reperesent Islam because the current governments are plain secular one.

Fortunately for those of us who live in the West, Christianity underwent the Reformation, and a great deal of The Church's stranglehold on society gave way to a more enlightened way of thinking. Sadly, for a large portion of the world currently under Islamic control, they are still under a similar stranglehold, which has yet to be lifted.

They had to hide you mean not to be totally eliminated whether physically or spiritually by the new movement in the West.

Anyone preaching that they have the one and only way, is setting themselves and theri group up for a big conflict with any group who beleives differently. When you have two or more different groups saying that they have the ONLY keys to the gates of Heaven, well, you have what we see in the world today, which, frankly is a sad state of affairs.

[6] To you be your Way, and to me mine. (Quran 109:6)

 

[*Paul*]

OK, fair enough if that is what you believe but you also need to respect the fact that another person may have an entirely different belief and your insistence on preaching/saving rather than discussing how it is possible to live peacefully can be offensive to some.

We simply don't put the cart before the horse, when someone has peace with God they will live in peace, it is important and Christianity says that we should be at peace with everyman:
Heb 12v14: Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
This is not to conflict with our act of love in spreading the gospel throughout the whole world. "Love thy neighbour as thyself" "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" If I was dying and you knew where i could get the cure I would expect you to have enough compassion to tell me where i could get the cure, this is an act of love. Even if your instructions to me on how to get this cure where somehow offensive to me and made me angry, I would still expect you to try to tell me, love would demand it of you.

If you want to preach the gospel why are you quoting from the Quran? What are your intentions? People should read all the holy scriptures from all faiths and make their own mind up after all each individual is accountable for themselves. If you've got a point to make explain yourself clearly.

On this thread I have not been preaching the gospel, I have discussing certain aspects of Islam which require quoting from it's root source.

Understand the term "right hands possess" before you use it out of context.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=43360; this link may be helpful.

This scholar disagrees with you:

*6. This expression denotes 'slave-girls', i.e. female captives of war who are distributed by the state among individuals. The purpose of this verse is to tell men that if their financial circumstances do not permit them to support a free woman as their wife then they may marry a slave-girl (see verse 25 below);

http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/004-1.htm
Moududi.

 

[*Paul*]

Have you read the whole Quran from start to finish?

No because people keep telling me i need to understand the historical backdrop of it, can you recomemend a good historian who will help me to interpret the koran properly? And why those particular ones?

Slavery was the practiced in Arabia pre-Islam. These verses address the situation at the time,

Then there should be no such thing as a believing slave girl like in the verse I quoted earlier.

The muslims in Niger know this, they are clearly not following Quranic scripture by allowing slavery.

PErhaps they are confused by the seeming conflicting verses, perhaps they just read the koran thinking it is the word of God to them and so they have not studied the historical backdrop but just take it at face value.

 

[TashaN]

Just how many translations are there exactly? I always get muslims come to me going on about different bible versions and how the koran is so different, so i go to a website with an online koran and what do you know it's not the right one, so i'll try another one and see if it says much different.
I have been careful not to tar everyone with the same brush here, that has been at the forefront of my mind.

The different is that we have TRANSLATIONS by human beings trying their best to translate the original arabic real word of God in the Quran and interpret it to other languages but in Christianity you have got VERSIONS which might be totally different than others. You think of your VERSIONS as the word of God dot by dot as one of the missionaries told us, but we see our TRANSLATIONS as human efforts to translate the original arabic word of God in the Quran.

So you know now the what the difference is?

About the wrong translations, guess what? it came usually from some non-muslims who try to portray an ugly face for this beautiful religion, it's held usually by the enemies of Islam.

Tahweed Volume 9, Book 93, Number 527:
Narrated Abu Said Al-Khudri:
Should I live till they appear, I would kill them as the Killing of the nation of 'Ad."

This is ladies and gentlemen a very good example of how people try to attack Islam by taking part of the hadith and leaving the rest and i'm sure 100% if i asked "Paul" whom the prophet Mohammed was referring to when he said that, he will never know. Wether the websites he is getting these things from are anti-muslim sites or simply because he doesn't want to search for the full hadith.

Prophet Mohammed said this hadith?
Yes.

Hey Truth, your prophet is talking about killing?
Yes, he does.

But why Truth? I thought Islam is peaceful religion !!!

Simply, because prophet Mohammed is mentioning some Muslims but it's about non-muslims.

What a surprise !!!!!

The story goes like this, Prophet Mohammed said when he was alive that a group of muslims will appear after him who pray alot and do alot of rituals even someone will think they are better than the normal majority muslims and they read the Quran and hadiths alot and they apppear to be very devout. Nevertheless, they go out of Islam even they do all these stuff as quick as an arrow because even though they read the Quran but it's only in their mouth and throat and it will never exceed that to their hearts. That's why prophet Mohammed promised that if he met those muslims who kill their own muslims brothers and sisters, and work against their leaders and do corruption on earth, so he would kill them himself. So sadly, they are alot these days and muslims are trying thier best in fighting back this group of muslims to save the world from their cruel crimes and coward attacks.

Volume 9, Book 83, Number 24:

Narrated Anas bin Malik:
The Prophet killed a Jew for killing a girl in order to take her orna

So?

A Jew killed a girl then he must be killed according to Islam. So what's your point?

In Islam any killer must be killed.

http://www.worldandi.com/newhome/public/2003/may/clpub.asp
http://www.amnestyusa.org/magazine/summer_2003/legalized_murder/
http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2002/02/0212_020212_honorkilling.html
Thre have been so called honour killings in my country against WOMEN who marry (or try to) outside of their faith. By the way, the part I have emboldened is absolute error.

Yeah, honor killing is so discusting act. I hope that those people will start acting as Muslims and leave thier culture aside or God will punish them in the hereafter for what they have done.

For more information about this topic. There is an entire thread about it in this link below.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37095

Regarding women going out of their faith, it's also cultural thing in one country or two to kill her because of their anger and tribal scandel or somthing. I hope the link i provided will be helpful to fully understand this issue.

I've never heard of it happen to a man unless he renounces his faith.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=28162

That was my point, i wasn't saying that you do or should.

But you were implying that in order to live in peace they should give up Quran's instructions, i don't think you will deny that especially that you said ....

I view the bible the same way.

 

[michel]

******************************************MOD POST*******************************************
This thread keep straying off topic; the OP was "Can Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam"; pease try to keep to the topic.
The topic is open to suggestions as to how that can be achieved.

This isn't a debate on the comparissons between Christianity and Islam.

​

The short answer is "yes" as long as both sides want to have peace, and are prepared to accept that there will be theological, and Cultural differences. We don't have to approve or disapprove of each other - just accept that we are different, and make up our minds to live in harmony.​

 

[TashaN]

If it is true then God will judge those people for what they did, and they clearly do not understand the faith they profess and if they had been truly born again they would tremble at the thought of dishonouring God and His religion this way.

Oh really? what about when i tell that there muslims who don't act as muslims?

Will you accept my answer if i said like you or you will say noooooo this is part of your unpeaceful religion?

Absolutley not, such an action disgusts me and if it was a missionary i was supporting financialy i would withdraw it immediatly and write to other churches to do the same lest they dishonour Gods name further.

If those rules forbid me from spreading the gospel to unbelievers then they stop me practicing my faith.

Paul, Do you think of me as a believer or as an unbeliever?

Yes i know that but we are talking about peace between the two religions here. Radical hindus are making some Christians life hell in india at the moment.

Ops, all the world is against Christians now, I understand now.

I said low profile, ordinary Christians not scholars. This must be a part of the koran that is not practiced much

You mean that you will go to a simple poor muslim and ask him to be a christian because he will be rewarded in the hereafter as he will be so in this life as well by your fellow rich christians?

But Dhimmis?

What about them?

I do not read anti muslim sites.

Thank God.

Then these are not Christians, but apostates seeing that they emrace islam.

No, they are christians who are trying to follow the law of God without arrogance and jealousy. Mohammed is mentioned in the Torah and Injil and thos devout christians around the world were just waiting for him to appear. The first country ever which entered to Islam is what was called in the past as "Al-habasha" (today called, Eritrea and Ethiopia). The christian king knew the truth and he reverted to Islam and you can see thousands and millions of christians who enter to Islam till today.

Save it, for i have everything I need in Gods word and The Father, The Son and The Holy Ghost.

So you ask us to listen to you and you give us a deaf ear when we want to share our holy book with you?

How is that?

I have read much of the koran and do read bits in my spare time but it does nothing for me it feels no different than reading shakespear well its easier to understand than that, but what i mean is it has mo witnees to me. I am so utterly convinced more so than that i am typing right now, that what I believe is The Truth, i don't at all doubt it.

And i hope that you will always look for the truth whether it was in christianity or Islam.

No doubt you think my heart is a locked chest and is hardened.
May the triune God open your eyes .

I know nothing, Allah knows best my friend.

I don't really have much else to say on this topic to be truthful so depending on the nature of your response i probably will be defending Christianity on another part of the forum. This kind of discussion doesn't exite me too much.

So you just throw some stones and escape without trying to listen to us?

How then you want me to open my eyes if you keep defending christianity just for the sake of defending without reasoning with me?

How can you preach the gospel to me and others when you think that you have the ultimate truth for sure 100% in your side and i'm all wrong just because you are christian?

I thought you said you want to discuss things with the muslims, or you just want to prostylize and that's it?

 

[TashaN]

When Prophet Jesus returns for the second time he will ......

The future doesn't look too promising for Christian & Muslim dialogue.

[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]The Prophet

said, "By him whose hands my life is in, surely the son of Maryam will come down amongst you as a just ruler. He will break the cross, kill the pigs, and abolish the tax. Wealth will be in such abundance that none will care about it and a single prostration in a Prayer will be better than the world and all that is in it." (Abu Huraira/Bukhari, Muslim)[/FONT]
[FONT=Times New Roman,Times]The above hadith clearly indicates that when Prophet Jesus returns to the world for the second time he will not reign as a Prophet no, will he bring a new Shariah or Deen, as Islam is the last religion, the Quran is the last book to be revealed and our Prophet Muhammad

is the last Prophet. There is no Prophet to come after him and the Quran has made this fact very clear.[/FONT] [FONT=Times New Roman,Times]Allah says in the Qur'an, "Muhammad (

) is not the father of any of you but is the Messenger of Allah and the last of the Prophets (Surah-Al-Ahzaab)[/FONT]

No peace proposed here but annihilation of the Christian faith by the very one they worship apparently.

If you really believe in Jesus, why are you so afraid that he will abandon you or somthing?

This will happen near the end of this life whether we like it or not. Prophet Mohammed say nothing but the truth because it's not his own but he just speak of what he is commanded to say so.

If Jesus is the one who will do these things so why to blame us?

Go and search for what really Jesus Christ would wanted you to do and you have nothing to fear if you did so, am i right?

 

[TashaN]

Under sharia wouldn't any non muslim be subjected inferior rights, and discrimination?

No.

Hi Truth. In retrospect I realize that was quite gruff of me, I apologize if I offended you.
I am not sure I can back it up enough to give my opinion any merit, my opinion is all it is, but I will try. Most of that opinion is formed by my personal pursuit of the truth and how I find it.

I'll be offended if you throw such statements without proofs but if you have proofs so then i have no problem to discuss it with you whatever misconception you have about Islam, that won't make me mad definitely.

I look to the Bible for reference and guidance and I use Jesus life on earth as an example of how I should live. After reading some of the Quran and the Hadith, although my knowledge of them is at this point limited, I do not understand how someone could follow the Qurans teachings and Mohammeds example and be peaceful. Fighting, jihad, and war are taught as much or more than peace, love and tolerance. Mohammeds life is not one that I would want to imitate, while imitating Jesus daily brings a new level of joy, happiness and comfort.

I love Jesus the way you do and i might say that i love him more than you do but i'm afraid to offend you by saying that my friend.

Regarding prophet Mohammed, Can you please read this link and tell me what you think of prophet Mohammed based on what you read?

http://www.geocities.com/baron_night84/DO_YOU_KNOW_HIM1.pps#256,1,Slide

There are many things in the Quran that I agree with but they are also found in the Bible, the negative aspects of the Quran seem to be the difference.

As you can see, we are not different, and we both believe in one God "the father in heaven". Also, what you might think of as negative might be just another misconception about some teaching in the Quran and if you have the time i have no problem to discuss it with you in the Islam forum.

 

[TashaN]

I'm so sorry Scott, but seriously. That doesn't ring true. Look, Muslims in America are wonderful people. I love them. I love what they have done for our country. But Islam in the Arab world is frightening. It smacks of fear and hatred.

I said this before and i'll say it again. Just stop invading their countries and they will leave you all alone.

 

[TashaN]

Can Real Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam?

Lets hope so. We are working on it.

Amen.

 

[TashaN]

My interpetation of it so far, have only read parts of it, is inconsistent with some of what you say. Not sure if this is the forum for that debate or not.

Please start a new thread about what you think of as "your own interpretation of the Quran" and then tell me about it, thanks.

 

[TashaN]

Thanks for sharing

You are most welcome sis.

 

[TashaN]

I agree I think that is true in all religions, it seems to me that this flavor of Islam is the one growing and I don't see many Muslims united against it, rather conforming to it.

Yes we are, believe me but the media can't afford to show the positive part of muslims but only the negative one because many people care about the bad things which happen around the world and they are not interested in how much good people are.

You can start by reading these links to know whether we are united against them or not.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=37461

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=34172

Read in here more about it Considering the coercive tactics and teachings in the Quran I see it is snowballing out of control. Are you willing to step out of your comfort zone, risking your safety, to stand against it?

That's what i'm doing here, to explain for the world that the Quran and Islam is not as they think about, also to enlighten each other, me and my muslim brothers and sisters about things which we might not know and this is what i think i can do for now while i'm still studying in the university, and i hope to do alot of works for Islam "God willing" once i finish my studying, to clean my society from sick minded people who make islam look bad.

Does Muhammed represent Islam?

He is our role model and the perfect example ever for us. May Allah's peace and blessing be upon him.

Did he not teach the fundementals they are teaching in his Hadith?

You can start a new thread about the hadiths which you think of them as bad and i have no problem to discuss it with you if you are interested.

I do not believe all Muslims are represented in those videos.
I do believe, based on their tactics, this minority will take over the majority of Muslims if something is not done.

We are trying our best.

To me that says it is ok to be peaceful. Doesn't say you can't attack them.

It says that, just because certain people are non-muslims, so that won't be a barrier from being good and just to them.

This only forbids you from making peace with your enemy.

It's just the following verse because the first one instruct the Muslims to be good toward all human beings and the other one tell us to defend ourslevs when we have to.

I have watched those and there are many more. How would you expect their response to be? They are proficient deceivers. Just my opinion.

You are talking about whom?

Who is the proficient deceivers?

Peace and blessing, to you also.

To you too.

 

[James the Persian]

Christians will never budge from the fact that Christ is the only son of God and that salvation is only possible through him.

This is a long thread and I haven't read it all, so apologies if this has already been raised but whilst this is correct, the interpretation you put on this (that it means all non-Christians are damned) is wrong. That is in no way a crux of Christianity. In fact, one thing you'll commonly hear said by the Orthodox is that 'We know where the Church is but cannot know where it is not'. It would, then, be perfectly possible for us to have a live and let live attitude to Muslims without any change to our theology (and Orthodox theology certainly isn't going to change). I'd guess that, given how much we've overlapped historically that getting along is the norm for us, though certainly this has been interspersed by some bloody periods of persecutions and wars. I would like to end by pointing out that the rather legalistic western way of interpreting 'nobody comes to the Father except by Me' is not the only legitimate one. Whilst you can read at as 'follow me or be damned' it's just as easy to read it as 'I save all who are saved, whether they know it or not'. I think we'd tend to read it the latter way. Certainly, that fits in perfectly with Incarnational Soteriology, our medical rather than forensic idea of sin and salvation, and our firm belief that God wills all to be saved. Of course, there are Christians who think all non-Christians are damned but they aren't by any means the majority.

James

 

[James the Persian]

No, they are christians who are trying to follow the law of God without arrogance and jealousy. Mohammed is mentioned in the Torah and Injil and thos devout christians around the world were just waiting for him to appear. The first country ever which entered to Islam is what was called in the past as "Al-habasha" (today called, Eritrea and Ethiopia). The christian king knew the truth and he reverted to Islam and you can see thousands and millions of christians who enter to Islam till today.

The Emperors of Ethiopia have been overwhelmingly Oriental Orthodox Christian, the population is still majority Christian and always was. Islam did make some inroads into the Abyssinian Empire, basically on the coastal regions where Arab sailors landed, so Eritrea and Somalia are mainly Muslim, but to suggest that this was a wholesale acceptance of Islam by the Ethiopians is ahistorical nonsense.

Ethiopia remains to this day the oldest Christian culture in sub-Saharan Africa and has actually been remarkably resistant to the Islamicisation of its neighbours and even weathered the Arab invasion of Egypt (the Coptic Church being the Ethiopian mother church), remarkably well. I think you could do with a different example, to be honest.

James

 

[TashaN]

*6. This expression denotes 'slave-girls', i.e. female captives of war who are distributed by the state among individuals. The purpose of this verse is to tell men that if their financial circumstances do not permit them to support a free woman as their wife then they may marry a slave-girl (see verse 25 below);

http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/004-1.htm
Moududi.

Yep, it's about slave girls but islam was trying to free all the slaves step by step by making it for instance as an compulsory act in order to be fogiven by God in some cases as a first choice, when someone wants to repent unless he doesn't have slaves, so then he go with the other choices.

No because people keep telling me i need to understand the historical backdrop of it, can you recomemend a good historian who will help me to interpret the koran properly? And why those particular ones?

For instance when Jesus say he didn't came for peace but with the sword, what if i took that and posted it everywhere to show people how cruel was Jesus Christ "God forbid"?

Don't worry, i love Jesus and i know that he is peaceful and i don't consider myself as a muslim if i ddn't believe in him as an Apostle of God and the word of God who came to this life from a miraclous birth without a father.

My point is that one must be carful and stop picking verses out of context in order to understand the Quran, that's all.