Can Real Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam?

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I would like to ask Muslim members here what they consider "clear Signs" of both the need for a major religious reformation of existing Abrahamic doctrines that seem only to continue inter-Abrahamic warfare, and evidence of divine intervention.

As a forerunner to the question posed on this thread, "Can real peace exist between Christianity and Islam, one needs to ask why Sunni and Shiite Muslims hate Ahmadiyyah Muslims so much who are the only Muslims who practice non-violence towards their neighbors yet are doubly persecuted by their fellow Muslims for their beliefs.

If the majority of Muslims cannot tolerate truly non-violent Muslims, then this indicates the impossibility of Christian and traditional Muslim peaceful co-existence.

As a non muslim how do you try to generalize a feeling from a few individuals amongst the whole class of muslims. I am sunni and have shi friends. And know some Ahmediyyah, what you call hate is just disagreement in context. You cannot say that because we disagree we hate. these are isolated incidents in specific areas where alot of turmoil is going on.

One of the big reasons God has given the new Word of God that containis no words through a Gnostic Christian prophesy-bearer for Muslims to respond to, is to reinforce God's demand for the overthrow the idolatry of Muslim worship of Muhammad and his book. If Muslims continue in their way of blindness to the historical fact that Muhammad's ideas are vastly out of date for modern democratic social life where human rights of individuals are protected from organized religious persecution, Muslims have only themselves to blame when violence continues to destroy Muslim to Muslim, Muslim to non-Muslim relationships. The Signs are clear that something major is wrong with Muhammad's Islam when it is has become part and parcel of the religious warfare going on between all the Abrahamics, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

I guess you do not believe in evidence just general statements. its cool I guess but no one other than a fool would accept this without the evidence to proof it.

If Muslims cannot see anything is wrong as non-Muslims suspect, then the needed Islamic Reformation will be held back that much longer.

there will never be one I am sorry to say.

"Islam" has a "new" meaning now. Actually, it has been given it's old meaning back from the revision of it by Muhammad.

Wow, so what was Muhammed understanding of the word and please provide evidence.

"Islam" has always meant more than just "submission to the will of God". It means "submission to the will of God as Peace, because the foundational story takes place on that spot in Jerusalem where God as Peace was first worshipped in the world. Without "Peace" being the primary object of service to God, there is no spiritual connection with the Creator. So, the new Word of God is to reestablish the Abrahamic dedication to God, but to God as Peace, Shalom, Salaam, Islam. But the dedication must involve Muslim participation to be effective. It is God's way of demanding major change within all the Abrahamic faiths, a change led by a Christian prophesy-bearer of Jewish ancestry, but a change requiring the cooperative participation of Muslims as well.

Which God exactly and who is this christian prophesy bearer you speak of.

 

[XAAX]

When those stumbling blocks cannot be gotten over it is difficult to maintain good relations with each other.

I am not either so my opinion is not bias. I think Fully, the main problems Muslims face today is a lack of good representation. What I mean by this is I have studied many different religions. Mainly the ones that I have come across in my surroundings. Since I have not been around many Muslims, I never really studied the religion as much as the others. The problem is most Christian’s look at almost nothing but their own religion (I don’t mean the people on RF…I mean real world). So here is the problem. This country, unfortunately, is predominantly Christian. Suddenly you got Muslims flying planes into buildings and claiming it is for the Muslim faith and in the name of Allah. Ok, I have since then done a lot more research on the Muslim faith and have read a lot of the Quran. From what I understand, the fanatical groups make up a very small percentage of Muslims in the world, I have read different polls, but between 5-8 %. With such a small number of Muslims making all the bad publicity, I think it is the fault of the Muslim community as a whole that they allow this. Let me explain. If I was a Christian (no comment), and suddenly there were radical Christian groups screaming to other countries in the world that Christians were going to wipe out the Muslims. I would be one of the first to jump up and say these a-holes do not represent me. Why aren’t we seeing that? Why aren’t we seeing Muslims standing up against this small number of radical groups?

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Why aren’t we seeing that? Why aren’t we seeing Muslims standing up against this small number of radical groups?

Just because you don't see it doesn't mean its not happening. If took all our time standing in front of news cameras and newspaper buildings yelling 'hey look at us we're speaking out against terrorism', then we wouldn't be actually going about the work of speaking out. It is more important for us to open our islamic centers and allowing people to discuss these issues with us. It is more important to have Islamic awareness week at UIC campus to have these informative talks and dissemenate this information. All we can do it put ourselves out there in our communities so people can feel free to speak their minds and ask questions.

Its not our fault that the media pays us no attention. We coud try talking a good game on TV but, the proof is in the pudding (as grandm used to say). It is also not our fault that people will decline open house invites to these sorts of gatherings, and then believe everything they hear on TV.

Side note: I notice how muslims are the only group pressured to stand up collectively and defend ourselves from someone else doing some things wrong just cuz they say they're muslim. No other group of people must do this. There is a lot of senselss killing in some parts of Africe, but Africans don't have to band together to say they disagree with the actions of their countrymen. Yet muslims around the world must account for other people we know nothing about, and try to explain it away. We don't know what these people's motives are. We don't know the inside scoop on every muslims world-wide.

 

[Laila]

We simply don't put the cart before the horse, when someone has peace with God they will live in peace, it is important and Christianity says that we should be at peace with everyman:
Heb 12v14: Follow peace with all men, and holiness, without which no man shall see the Lord:
This is not to conflict with our act of love in spreading the gospel throughout the whole world. "Love thy neighbour as thyself" "Do unto others as you would have them do unto you" If I was dying and you knew where i could get the cure I would expect you to have enough compassion to tell me where i could get the cure, this is an act of love. Even if your instructions to me on how to get this cure where somehow offensive to me and made me angry, I would still expect you to try to tell me, love would demand it of you.

According to my faith you don't persistently annoy people. If you differ in a matter you discuss it and then leave it alone. If you love and respect others you leave them to find the way; if they come to you for more information then it's a different story.
You have to agree to disagree, this is what my faith teaches me.

On this thread I have not been preaching the gospel, I have discussing certain aspects of Islam which require quoting from it's root source.

If you are going to quote from the Quran you need to understand what you're quoting, it's only fair. Unfortunately Paul your style of discussing is more attack less discuss.
Try reading the interpretation of Yusuf Ali and Muhammad Asad. If you really want to understand certain aspects of Islam I suggest you read and cross-reference your work with numerous scholars and not just the two I've suggested. Finally use logic and reasoning - it helps!

This scholar disagrees with you:

*6. This expression denotes 'slave-girls', i.e. female captives of war who are distributed by the state among individuals. The purpose of this verse is to tell men that if their financial circumstances do not permit them to support a free woman as their wife then they may marry a slave-girl (see verse 25 below);

http://www.quranenglish.com/tafheem_quran/004-1.htm
Moududi.

And many would agree with me. Scholar's are human beings, they can't always get everything right can they? An important clause in the Quran gives the responsibility of reading and understanding the Quran to every child, woman and man; in other words use your brain!
Rather than discussing Islamic issues it seems to me that you are bent on disproving the points the muslims on RF make. Have you read the whole Quran yourself? or do you just intend to extract the verses you feel you can attack without a clear understanding?

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

I am not either so my opinion is not bias. I think Fully, the main problems Muslims face today is a lack of good representation.

But you know that is 90% the media's fault.

What I mean by this is I have studied many different religions. Mainly the ones that I have come across in my surroundings. Since I have not been around many Muslims, I never really studied the religion as much as the others. The problem is most Christian’s look at almost nothing but their own religion (I don’t mean the people on RF…I mean real world). So here is the problem. This country, unfortunately, is predominantly Christian. Suddenly you got Muslims flying planes into buildings and claiming it is for the Muslim faith and in the name of Allah. Ok, I have since then done a lot more research on the Muslim faith and have read a lot of the Quran. From what I understand, the fanatical groups make up a very small percentage of Muslims in the world, I have read different polls, but between 5-8 %.

Not even that high. There are over a billion muslims on the planet.

With such a small number of Muslims making all the bad publicity, I think it is the fault of the Muslim community as a whole that they allow this.

How when the media is spreading the lies. I think that if all people stop looking at the Muslims and associating that word with terrorizm, and look at the word terrorism and apply it to who the shoe really fits, Israel, America, Brit., UN etc. and their policy we should all MUSLIM, JEW, CHRISTIAN, ATHEIST, BUDDHIST, PAGAN, ETC,ETC, ALL HATE TERRORISM AND IDIOT IDEOLOGIES AND FANTIC FACISTS. THEN WE ALL ACCEPT THE FACT THAT IT IS NOT THE MUSLIMS WHO ARE THE ONLY PROBLEM WE HAVE. AND LOOK AT THE ISSUES OF THIS THING WHICH IS AFFECTING EVERY PERSON OF THIS PLANET. THEN WE CAN START GIVING OUT WHO'S FAULT IT IS FOR THIS AND THAT.

How is it our fault when we are not what is causing this ideology to spread. Let us caste blame on those who are truly guilty.

Let me explain. If I was a Christian (no comment), and suddenly there were radical Christian groups screaming to other countries in the world that Christians were going to wipe out the Muslims. I would be one of the first to jump up and say these a-holes do not represent me. Why aren’t we seeing that? Why aren’t we seeing Muslims standing up against this small number of radical groups?

the first thing you should ask is why are the christians doing this exactly or what is the motivation from where the reasons they want to do this. Are something being done to them in their area. I mean what is going on exactly needs to be understood to know what your response will be, why yell out and not hear all the sides first.

And to answer your question You are not seeing it because it does not sell newspapers or get high tv ratings. I hear it all the time in masjid kutbahs, the teachings of the prophet and the verses of Quran, I hear it in imam and scholars lectures and amongst all the brothers I know.

You want to make it happen anybody who is somebody and can get me and a bunch of my friends on the National News, I mean CNN with Wolf and all that then you would hear it loud and clear. We are not given the chair though. They would rather have an idiot instead, why? That's just good entertainment

 

[Laila]

Then there should be no such thing as a believing slave girl like in the verse I quoted earlier.
PErhaps they are confused by the seeming conflicting verses, perhaps they just read the koran thinking it is the word of God to them and so they have not studied the historical backdrop but just take it at face value.

The Quran addresses all the problems of the pre-Islam era. People were purchased and sold as slaves, the message of the Quran is to eradicate slavery but it obviously had to address the situation at the time. The Quran is after all for all times and all places.
Even after Islam was established there was still a big problem of slavery of it's obvious even from studying early days Islam that people found it difficult to change their ways and follow the Quran.
Paul, I'm not interested in preaching my faith to you; I'm merely addressing your statements.

 

[Laila]

I am not either so my opinion is not bias. I think Fully, the main problems Muslims face today is a lack of good representation.

I have to agree with Mujahid on this one, media plays an important role.

This country, unfortunately, is predominantly Christian. Suddenly you got Muslims flying planes into buildings and claiming it is for the Muslim faith and in the name of Allah. Ok, I have since then done a lot more research on the Muslim faith and have read a lot of the Quran. From what I understand, the fanatical groups make up a very small percentage of Muslims in the world, I have read different polls, but between 5-8 %. With such a small number of Muslims making all the bad publicity.

Muslims did strongly condemn the events of 9/11.

I think it is the fault of the Muslim community as a whole that they allow this. Let me explain. If I was a Christian (no comment), and suddenly there were radical Christian groups screaming to other countries in the world that Christians were going to wipe out the Muslims. I would be one of the first to jump up and say these a-holes do not represent me. Why aren’t we seeing that? Why aren’t we seeing Muslims standing up against this small number of radical groups?

The radical groups were actually exposed by muslim groups. Was this made explicit in the documentary? There are many muslim groups in the west that will not tolerate the spread of incorrect militant Islam or hate preaching; you may not have heard about them but they exist.

 

[Laila]

I would like to ask Muslim members here what they consider "clear Signs" of both the need for a major religious reformation of existing Abrahamic doctrines that seem only to continue inter-Abrahamic warfare, and evidence of divine intervention.

As a forerunner to the question posed on this thread, "Can real peace exist between Christianity and Islam, one needs to ask why Sunni and Shiite Muslims hate Ahmadiyyah Muslims so much who are the only Muslims who practice non-violence towards their neighbors yet are doubly persecuted by their fellow Muslims for their beliefs.

If the majority of Muslims cannot tolerate truly non-violent Muslims, then this indicates the impossibility of Christian and traditional Muslim peaceful co-existence.

We seem to be turning the minority into the majority. The majority of muslims do not fight over secular beliefs, we (the muslims) discuss/argue about issues on RF doesn't mean we have hatred for each other. You need to listen to what Mujahid is telling you I happen to agree with his answer.

One of the big reasons God has given the new Word of God that containis no words through a Gnostic Christian prophesy-bearer for Muslims to respond to, is to reinforce God's demand for the overthrow the idolatry of Muslim worship of Muhammad and his book.

Let us clear this misconceptions: muslims do not worship Muhammad they worship God alone. We do not worship the Quran, we worship God; we read the Quran to understand the message of God and worship God.

If Muslims continue in their way of blindness to the historical fact that Muhammad's ideas are vastly out of date for modern democratic social life where human rights of individuals are protected from organized religious persecution, Muslims have only themselves to blame when violence continues to destroy Muslim to Muslim, Muslim to non-Muslim relationships. The Signs are clear that something major is wrong with Muhammad's Islam when it is has become part and parcel of the religious warfare going on between all the Abrahamics, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

The Quran is not bound of time; the ideas and messages are never outdated. You can from your observations say that muslim countries are behind/backwards or radical groups are wrong but don't make blanket statements about that which you don't understand. There si nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people that need to stop being so stupid and follow it.

If Muslims cannot see anything is wrong as non-Muslims suspect, then the needed Islamic Reformation will be held back that much longer.

Who said muslims agree with hatred or secular fighting? The need to go back to the teachings of the Quran is essential.

"Islam" has a "new" meaning now. Actually, it has been given it's old meaning back from the revision of it by Muhammad. "Islam" has always meant more than just "submission to the will of God". It means "submission to the will of God as Peace, because the foundational story takes place on that spot in Jerusalem where God as Peace was first worshipped in the world. Without "Peace" being the primary object of service to God, there is no spiritual connection with the Creator. So, the new Word of God is to reestablish the Abrahamic dedication to God, but to God as Peace, Shalom, Salaam, Islam. But the dedication must involve Muslim participation to be effective. It is God's way of demanding major change within all the Abrahamic faiths, a change led by a Christian prophesy-bearer of Jewish ancestry, but a change requiring the cooperative participation of Muslims as well.

Islam doesn't have a new meaning and neither is it a new religion. Are you going to teach muslims the meaning of the Quran/Islam?

 

[Navigator]

Is there a verse in the Quran that instructs you to love, and be at peace with your jewish neighbor(if you had one), regardless of his religion, and treat him, equal, as if he was a fellow Muslim?

 

[Mathematician]

Can Real Peace Exist between Christianity and Islam

Peace already does exist. Religions can not wage war against each other any more than guns can shoot each other; like it or not war is an abomination restricted to humanity.

It takes an adherent to break or broker peace.

 

[painted wolf]

only so long as the followers of said faiths stop saying things like.
"Those guys on the other side don't beleive in peace, so we will never have it."
"those guys on the other side will never..."

stop talking about what others should do and start talking about what YOU should do.

wa:do

 

[fullyveiled muslimah]

Is there a verse in the Quran that instructs you to love, and be at peace with your jewish neighbor(if you had one), regardless of his religion, and treat him, equal, as if he was a fellow Muslim?

Nope. Only the verses of Quran tell us to deal kindly, peacefully, and justly between each other. Really you can't ask for more than that. It sounds good to say love all the people in the world, but love is a heavy thing. It is not some word to be bandied about. A person may be a good muslim but finds it difficult to love others. If Allah had made love a command how would we adhere to that practically? Some people find it hard to trust and therefore hard to love. Love may be difficult or next to impossible for some people, but justice is a thing that can always be done. To be kind and deal justly are two things that only a person with the hardest heart will not be able to do. That person who cannot even deal with justice is in a dangerous predicament with Allah as regards his treatment of others.

I may never love you Navigator, but I can be peaceful with you, and deal justly with you in every circumstance. This kindness I show you should be to such an extent that you should feel loved by me even if in reality you aren't. This is the true character of a muslim that we should be striving for.

 

[Radio Frequency X]

All I know, is that when I was living outside DC in Northern Virginia, Muslims, Hindus, Christians, Jews, Buddhists, and Hindus (all with significant populations in the area) were living in relative peace and harmony. I'm not sure what is different about this area (other than that it is extremely diverse) that makes it more peaceful than other areas in the world.

 

[TashaN]

The Emperors of Ethiopia have been overwhelmingly Oriental Orthodox Christian, the population is still majority Christian and always was. Islam did make some inroads into the Abyssinian Empire, basically on the coastal regions where Arab sailors landed, so Eritrea and Somalia are mainly Muslim, but to suggest that this was a wholesale acceptance of Islam by the Ethiopians is ahistorical nonsense.

Ethiopia remains to this day the oldest Christian culture in sub-Saharan Africa and has actually been remarkably resistant to the Islamicisation of its neighbours and even weathered the Arab invasion of Egypt (the Coptic Church being the Ethiopian mother church), remarkably well. I think you could do with a different example, to be honest.

James

In Eritrea, the majority are Muslims, in Somalia all of them are Muslims and now finally Ethiopia has a non-offecial Muslim majority.

By the way, there was a Christian king at the time of prophet Mohammed and he reverted to Islam.

 

[TashaN]

the difference is that these things cannot be justified by the teachings of Jesus and the Apostles

What about the Crusade?

continue to interpret the koran to justify their hatred and viciousness towards non muslims, particulalry Christians

Give one reason why Muslims should hate the Christians as you claim?

Everyone believes something and so are by definition believers. But when I say believer I am talking about the Gospel (which would obviously include the death and ressurection of Jesus Christ, God manifest in the flesh). So i view you as an unbeliever.

So whether i believe in God or not that wouldn't make any difference to you?

They are viewed by Christians as apostates and not Christians, they are called muslims. If a Christian king reverted or regressed to Islam then he bacame a muslim and was no longer a Christian.

They are believers because they followed what Jesus Christ instructed them to do when the new prophet comes unto them.

I have not asked anyone to listen to me, i have quoted the koran more than the bible in this thread, I told you not to waste your time as you posted me a link to a proselyting post which would be a total waste of your time.

Which one is the proselyting post you are talking about?

No, i just got bored. I didn't throw stones, I just quoted your koran for which you should be thankful that i have given it more circulation.

Why should i be thankful if you quoted the Quran, Paul?

We are in the wrong thread for such a thing, i tell you what, give me some recommended reading from the koran and i'll read it and ask questions if i have any -and you read John gospel and Pauls letter to the phillipians or Galations and question me as you see fit, but the condition is that you simply read it and don't go to muslim sites looking for difficult questions. I want to know what you think when you read it.

Ok no problem. Give me yours then i'll give you mine after i read yours. Regarding reading from Muslim sites to find difficult questions, i don't have to because i have my own KJV in my room which my finace gave it to me when she was a Christian before she revert to Islam, and i have read alot of chapters in it.

By the way, if you really believe in what you preach, why to fear difficult questions unless you are not sure about what you believe in?

For me, the door is wide open for you to ask about anything you like about Islam whether it was easy questions or hard. Everything can be answered and will be clear as the sun for you "God willing".

I have never said I want to discuss things with Muslims (though i don't mind) I have not tried to proseltyze anyone.

I have no problem to have one-on-one debate if you are interested. It won't be boring i promise.

 

[TashaN]

Impossible.

[116] And behold! Allah will say: "O 'Isa the son of Maryam! didst thou say unto men, 'Worship me and my mother as gods in derogation of Allah'?" He will say: "Glory to Thee! never could I say what I had no right (to say). Had I said such a thing, Thou wouldst indeed have known it. Thou knowest what is in my heart, though I know not what is in Thine. For Thou knowest in full all that is hidden.

[117] "Never said I to them aught except what Thou didst command me to say, to wit, 'Worship Allah, my Lord and your Lord'; and I was a witness over them whilst I dwelt amongst them; when thou didst take me up thou wast the Watcher over them, and Thou art a witness to all things. (Quran 5:116-117)

Matthew 23:9 "Call no one on earth your father; you have but one Father in heaven."

That changes nothing the point remains the same, that you believe that Jesus will break the cross (end Christianity) that does not give us any hope that you believe there can be peace between us without the erdaication of our faith.

It's not about what i do believe or not, whether i believe in it or not that won't change the fact that Jesus will come and do what he supposed to do. It's just a fact.

Jesus will do no such thing

How do u know that?

Yes, I search the bible for such information and He makes it clear, no fear at all.

Glad to hear so.

I would simply point you to the preceding and prceeding verses to show what it means. No need to read a history book or scholar to understand it.

Then why not to treat the Quran the same way you treat the bible?

Mt 28v18-20: And Jesus came and spake unto them, saying, All power is given unto me in heaven and in earth.

While Jesus performed many miracles, he himself admitted that the power he had was not his own but was derived from God when he said, "Verily, verily I say unto you, the Son can do nothing of himself, but what he seeth the father do..." (John 5:19) Again he said, "I can of mine own self do nothing: As I hear I judge, and my judgment is just because I seek not mine own will but the will of the Father which has sent me." (John 5:30) But God is not only All-Powerful, He is also the source of
all power and authority. That Jesus, of his own admission, could do nothing on his own is clear proof that Jesus is not all-powerful.

I do not take them out of the context they are in in the koran, i am quite careful to read the whole surah or a significant part of it before and after, but what you and others mean by context is read a historian or have an Islamic scholar explain it to me. That just says to me that the koran is incomplete as a revelation from God because it must be supplemented to be understood.

Not at all, you can read the Quran alone but if you want to understand the events in details you have to read how prophet Mohammed explained it.

 

[TashaN]

Then you would only be inviting hostility and criticism for deliberately twisting the Word of God. Jesus never wielded a sword, nor did he wage war, rape, enslave, mistreat or kill anyone. Ever.

Really?

Then read this post and tell me what you think.

http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?p=675182#post675182

Please read post # 218.

So why twist and pervert his meaning.

I didn't and i'll never do so. I was just making the point that one must read the whole passage but not taking any verse out of context. Got it now?

Wrong again, either God was His Father or Jesus lied about it.

And marry was the wife of God?

I'll deal with the slave issue if you'd like, but only in an honest dialogue.

And why do you think i would lie about anything regarding Islam?

Thank God, we have nothing to hide.

 

[arielmessenger]

"We seem to be turning the minority into the majority. The majority of muslims do not fight over secular beliefs, we (the muslims) discuss/argue about issues on RF doesn't mean we have hatred for each other. You need to listen to what Mujahid is telling you I happen to agree with his answer."

Sunni and Shiite Muslims cannot claim there is no severe persecution of Ahmadiyyah Muslims. To claim that is to lie because all one has to do is talk to an Ahmahdiyyah in a Sunni or Shiite Muslim majority community. I have a good Ahmadiyyah friend who's told me quite a bit about the persecution his sect has faced in Pakistan. So, why not admit it and not fib about Sunni and Shiite persecution of the one and only Muslim sect in the world that has established a track record of over a hundred years of non-violence towards their neighbors. What are these Ahmadiyyahs doing right and Sunni and Shiites doing wrong is the question Muslims should be asking themselves.
Quote:
One of the big reasons God has given the new Word of God that containis no words through a Gnostic Christian prophesy-bearer for Muslims to respond to, is to reinforce God's demand for the overthrow the idolatry of Muslim worship of Muhammad and his book.

"Let us clear this misconceptions: muslims do not worship Muhammad they worship God alone. We do not worship the Quran, we worship God; we read the Quran to understand the message of God and worship God."

Let me be clear about your misdirection: Muslims do very much worship Muhammad and do not worship God alone which they have no relationship with outside of Muhammad's book. No idea of Allah outside one man's ideas of Allah.

While you as a Muslim are content to be a clone of one man's thinking, non-Muslims are not bound by such cult indoctrination that has blinded Muslims to the fact that they cannot know God outside of one man's mind.

So, when non-Muslim intellectuals read the Quran and see how Muslims use Muhammad's ideas and words to "answer" criticisms of his theological ideas without attempting to think rationally on their own, what other conclusion can we arrive at but that Muslims have allowed themselves to become brainwashed into believing their prophet and his book somehow escapes the fate of all men's knowledge, i.e., it is limited and always gets superseded by a newer vision.
Quote:
If Muslims continue in their way of blindness to the historical fact that Muhammad's ideas are vastly out of date for modern democratic social life where human rights of individuals are protected from organized religious persecution, Muslims have only themselves to blame when violence continues to destroy Muslim to Muslim, Muslim to non-Muslim relationships. The Signs are clear that something major is wrong with Muhammad's Islam when it is has become part and parcel of the religious warfare going on between all the Abrahamics, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

"The Quran is not bound of time; the ideas and messages are never outdated. You can from your observations say that muslim countries are behind/backwards or radical groups are wrong but don't make blanket statements about that which you don't understand. There si nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people that need to stop being so stupid and follow it."

I get so very tired of religionists blaming "the people" when the people follow the bad social directives of prophets out of date with both reality and morality.

If Detroit makes a bad car design and people get killed driving the bad cars, who's fault is it? The people? That's what apologists for bad religious instructions want everyone to believe. But all along, it was the bad design in the first place that caused the problems. Brainwashing has mesmerized Muslim minds so that they cannot see the obvious contradiction that arises when religionists blame the religionists for the religionists doctrines put into practice that end up hurting people.
Quote:
If Muslims cannot see anything is wrong as non-Muslims suspect, then the needed Islamic Reformation will be held back that much longer.

"Who said muslims agree with hatred or secular fighting? The need to go back to the teachings of the Quran is essential."

That won't help a thing. The teachings are what cause the problems.
Quote:
"Islam" has a "new" meaning now. Actually, it has been given it's old meaning back from the revision of it by Muhammad. "Islam" has always meant more than just "submission to the will of God". It means "submission to the will of God as Peace, because the foundational story takes place on that spot in Jerusalem where God as Peace was first worshipped in the world. Without "Peace" being the primary object of service to God, there is no spiritual connection with the Creator. So, the new Word of God is to reestablish the Abrahamic dedication to God, but to God as Peace, Shalom, Salaam, Islam. But the dedication must involve Muslim participation to be effective. It is God's way of demanding major change within all the Abrahamic faiths, a change led by a Christian prophesy-bearer of Jewish ancestry, but a change requiring the cooperative participation of Muslims as well.
" Islam doesn't have a new meaning and neither is it a new religion. Are you going to teach muslims the meaning of the Quran/Islam?"

Yes, because Muslims do not know the history of my people as well as I do. They do not know for example the derivation of the word "Islam" from "Shalom" which was the name of the God of Peace whose planetary symbol was the Evening Star. They do not know Shalom was worshipped on Mt. Zion in Jerusalem and that is where Peace was first worshipped as a god in the whole world. The spiritual power of this fact has drifted down through the ages to inspire Abrahamic prophets to seek a world at peace as God's ultimate will for humankind.

Muhammad picked up the "Shalom" Salaam, part but with limited knowledge that now must come to the forefront in order to correct Muhammad's limitation put on the word and concept of "Islam". It must now go beyond meaning just "surrender to the will of God" which can be interpreted so many different ways, to focusing the word on its core meaning "Peace". "Islam" now means "surrender to God as Peace". And yes, I am teaching this to Muslims as an Abrahamic prophesy-bearer. It is up to Muslims to receive this new spiritual information or reject it which is the traditional hostile response to prophets in their own times. __________________
Faith is love.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

"We seem to be turning the minority into the majority. The majority of muslims do not fight over secular beliefs, we (the muslims) discuss/argue about issues on RF doesn't mean we have hatred for each other. You need to listen to what Mujahid is telling you I happen to agree with his answer."

Sunni and Shiite Muslims cannot claim there is no severe persecution of Ahmadiyyah Muslims. To claim that is to lie because all one has to do is talk to an Ahmahdiyyah in a Sunni or Shiite Muslim majority community. I have a good Ahmadiyyah friend who's told me quite a bit about the persecution his sect has faced in Pakistan. So, why not admit it and not fib about Sunni and Shiite persecution of the one and only Muslim sect in the world that has established a track record of over a hundred years of non-violence towards their neighbors. What are these Ahmadiyyahs doing right and Sunni and Shiites doing wrong is the question Muslims should be asking themselves.
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One of the big reasons God has given the new Word of God that containis no words through a Gnostic Christian prophesy-bearer for Muslims to respond to, is to reinforce God's demand for the overthrow the idolatry of Muslim worship of Muhammad and his book.

"Let us clear this misconceptions: muslims do not worship Muhammad they worship God alone. We do not worship the Quran, we worship God; we read the Quran to understand the message of God and worship God."

Let me be clear about your misdirection: Muslims do very much worship Muhammad and do not worship God alone which they have no relationship with outside of Muhammad's book. No idea of Allah outside one man's ideas of Allah.

While you as a Muslim are content to be a clone of one man's thinking, non-Muslims are not bound by such cult indoctrination that has blinded Muslims to the fact that they cannot know God outside of one man's mind.

So, when non-Muslim intellectuals read the Quran and see how Muslims use Muhammad's ideas and words to "answer" criticisms of his theological ideas without attempting to think rationally on their own, what other conclusion can we arrive at but that Muslims have allowed themselves to become brainwashed into believing their prophet and his book somehow escapes the fate of all men's knowledge, i.e., it is limited and always gets superseded by a newer vision.
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If Muslims continue in their way of blindness to the historical fact that Muhammad's ideas are vastly out of date for modern democratic social life where human rights of individuals are protected from organized religious persecution, Muslims have only themselves to blame when violence continues to destroy Muslim to Muslim, Muslim to non-Muslim relationships. The Signs are clear that something major is wrong with Muhammad's Islam when it is has become part and parcel of the religious warfare going on between all the Abrahamics, Jews, Christians and Muslims.

"The Quran is not bound of time; the ideas and messages are never outdated. You can from your observations say that muslim countries are behind/backwards or radical groups are wrong but don't make blanket statements about that which you don't understand. There si nothing wrong with Islam, it's the people that need to stop being so stupid and follow it."

I get so very tired of religionists blaming "the people" when the people follow the bad social directives of prophets out of date with both reality and morality.

If Detroit makes a bad car design and people get killed driving the bad cars, who's fault is it? The people? That's what apologists for bad religious instructions want everyone to believe. But all along, it was the bad design in the first place that caused the problems. Brainwashing has mesmerized Muslim minds so that they cannot see the obvious contradiction that arises when religionists blame the religionists for the religionists doctrines put into practice that end up hurting people.
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If Muslims cannot see anything is wrong as non-Muslims suspect, then the needed Islamic Reformation will be held back that much longer.

"Who said muslims agree with hatred or secular fighting? The need to go back to the teachings of the Quran is essential."

That won't help a thing. The teachings are what cause the problems.
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"Islam" has a "new" meaning now. Actually, it has been given it's old meaning back from the revision of it by Muhammad. "Islam" has always meant more than just "submission to the will of God". It means "submission to the will of God as Peace, because the foundational story takes place on that spot in Jerusalem where God as Peace was first worshipped in the world. Without "Peace" being the primary object of service to God, there is no spiritual connection with the Creator. So, the new Word of God is to reestablish the Abrahamic dedication to God, but to God as Peace, Shalom, Salaam, Islam. But the dedication must involve Muslim participation to be effective. It is God's way of demanding major change within all the Abrahamic faiths, a change led by a Christian prophesy-bearer of Jewish ancestry, but a change requiring the cooperative participation of Muslims as well.
" Islam doesn't have a new meaning and neither is it a new religion. Are you going to teach muslims the meaning of the Quran/Islam?"

Yes, because Muslims do not know the history of my people as well as I do. They do not know for example the derivation of the word "Islam" from "Shalom" which was the name of the God of Peace whose planetary symbol was the Evening Star. They do not know Shalom was worshipped on Mt. Zion in Jerusalem and that is where Peace was first worshipped as a god in the whole world. The spiritual power of this fact has drifted down through the ages to inspire Abrahamic prophets to seek a world at peace as God's ultimate will for humankind.

Muhammad picked up the "Shalom" Salaam, part but with limited knowledge that now must come to the forefront in order to correct Muhammad's limitation put on the word and concept of "Islam". It must now go beyond meaning just "surrender to the will of God" which can be interpreted so many different ways, to focusing the word on its core meaning "Peace". "Islam" now means "surrender to God as Peace". And yes, I am teaching this to Muslims as an Abrahamic prophesy-bearer. It is up to Muslims to receive this new spiritual information or reject it which is the traditional hostile response to prophets in their own times. __________________
Faith is love.

YOU NEVER PROVIDE ANY EVIDENCE EVER, IT IS NOT A DIFFICULT THING YOU MAKE STATEMENTS THEN YOU SHOULD PROVIDE PROOF OTHERWISE YOUR IDEAS AND THEORIES WILL BE JUST AS THEY ARE IDEAS AND THEORIES. NOTHING VALIDATED BY ANYTHING JUST BLANKET STATEMENTS.

 

[Mujahid Mohammed]

Is there a verse in the Quran that instructs you to love, and be at peace with your jewish neighbor(if you had one), regardless of his religion, and treat him, equal, as if he was a fellow Muslim?

No not specifically,but it does instruct to a generalized way of akhlaq to all people.

But we have the hadith of the Messenger and the jewish woman who lived next door to him. She was very crude and rude to him. Everyday he would leave his house, she would hurl garbage and insults at him. The Prophet would just smile and keep going on his way, never confronted her about it, never raised his voice. Nothing. And this went on for some years, every day, everytime he left same treatment. One day the Messenger of Allah did not get his usual treatment. so he went next door to inquire about her state. He asked her slave how is your master. The slave replied she has taken ill, the Prophet was concerned and asked if he could go in and see about her. The slave went in and told her, she was shocked when the Prophet came in he smiled asked about her health and was very concerned. He stayed with her for a while chatting, and he made dua for her and she entered Islam. For she realized that after the treatment she had given him that no man other then a man sent by God would have this kind of patience and compassion for other people.

You see we have his example and there are many of examples like this.