arielmessenger said:
One of the major complaints of those of us who debate Muslims is that they are forever diverting the discussion whenever it reveals criticisms of Muhammad or his book that Muslims cannot answer without confirming Western prejudices against Muhammad's ethics and knowledge of the world.
Show me where did that happen in here?
What "evidence" do you want, Mujahid? You want me to post my Ahmadiyyah's experiences in Pakistan at the hands of hostile Muslims there?
Stop waving your Ahmadiyyah sword everytime you talk in here. I don't know what did your Ahmadiyyah friend told you but at least you have to be professional and stop talking non-sense about how the majority so called cruel Muslims are persecuting those who call themselves Ahmadiyyah and start coming up with evidences instead of wasting our time with your vague unproved long posts.
Do you want me to post the daily death tallies of Muslims killing each other in Iraq? Do you want me to post the number of wars going on in the world in which Muslim religionists are engaged? Do you want me to post the international outcries against Muslim beserko paranoid cult behavior over Danish cartoons? Do you want me to post the facts of Muslim ignorance reflected in percentages of educated Muslims in the world compared to Christians and Jews? Do you want me to post the GNP figures of Muslim nations that show how Christians and Jews and now Hindus outstrip Muslims in economic independence for their nations? These are clear signs that Islam is out of date and needs a thorough Reformation or it will be relegated to the compost heap of history.
I can answer this from the Quran. Muslims know what happened in the past when they ruled most of this world and they know well what would happen if they stopped practicing Islam. Islam is for all times but Muslims sometimes forget that, and when they do so, they have to go back and read the Quran. Allah knows that this is what will happen to us so he told us in the Quran:
[139]
So lose not heart, nor fall into despair: for ye must gain mastery if ye are true in Faith.
[140]
If a wound hath touched you, be sure a similar wound hath touched the others. Such days (of varying fortunes) we give to men and men by turns: that Allah may know those that believe, and that He may take to Himself from your ranks martyr-witnesses (to Truth). And Allah loveth not those that do wrong.
[141]
Allah's object also is to purge those that are true in Faith and to deprive of blessing those that resist Faith.
[142]
Did ye think that ye would enter Heaven without Allah testing those of you who fought hard (in His Cause) and remained steadfast? (Quran 3:139-142)
Life is like that ...
Muslims in the light, and Europe in the dark
OR
Europe in the light, and the Muslims on the dark.
This just an example of what would happen in this life and it's normal of you have a basic knowledge of history. Only those short sighted people with no deep thinking fall into this trap of being arrogant and happy for being in power for a century or two.
Do you know that Muslims ruled
in Spain and Portugal ALONE over a period of 800 years?
I bet you don't know or maybe you don't read about it because you are busy with preparing yourself to be the new ignorant prophet to the world.
I won't tell you for how long did the Muslims rule this world from China in the east till morocco in the west of Africa and i just told you about ONLY 800 years in Spain and you go and do your reading for how long the Muslims ruled the other parts of the world in peace and justice with all as Allah and his Apostle our beloved prophet Mohammed instructed them.
Those who were his enemies and stoned and ridiculed him heard this animating divine words:
It was by the mercy of Allah that thou wast lenient with them (O Muhammad), for if thou hadst been stern and fierce of heart they would have dispersed from round about thee. So pardon them and ask forgiveness for them and consult with them upon the conduct of affairs. And when thou art resolved, then put thy trust in Allah. Lo! Allah loveth those who put their trust (in Him). (Al-`Imran: 159) This was the voice of Muhammad.
The following pure words were imprinted on the minds of those who were endeavoring in the path of Allah for a better life, and were ready to support him (Muhammad) in his campaign against idol-worship and evil doing, and were afraid lest their rights and good conduct might be wasted in the battle-field.
Remember! Don't be treacherous. Don't commit breach of trust. Don't kill either a child or a woman or an old man or a monk in a monastery. Don't burn a date-palm tree and don't cut any tree nor pull down a building. This voice was the voice of Muhammad.
This voice of the Prophet, peace and blessings be upon him, was a call for human brotherhood. It stopped the hands of the rulers from reaching the property of the subjects and gave equal rights to all human beings. In his religion there is no discrimination between a common man, a ruler and a subject; an Arab and a non-Arab, because all human beings are the slaves of Allah and it is He who provides sustenance to all of them.
This voice emancipated women from the oppression of men, freed the laborers from the injustice of the capitalists and delivered the servants from the degradation of submission to their masters. As opposed to Plato and other philosophers, who deprive the workers of their social rights on account of their mean occupation and have divided the society into many grades, the Prophet of Islam made all human beings participate in the affairs of government. He also disallowed usury and exploitation of one man by another.
Read more about in it in this link below and give yourself some time to read the history if you still into this "being prophet" thing because this is the least you can do.
http://www.religiousforums.com/forum/showthread.php?t=39491
What will it take to convince you Muslims that, no, Allah has not given you a magic key to the universe with the Quran and yes, the Quran and its author will suffer the same fate as the other Abrahamic authors and their stories and teachings. They are all out of date and cannot overcome the onus of being based on outright lies foisted on believers as true history, e.g. for Muslims told that "Adam", "Noah", the Exodus story, Sodom and Gommorah and the miraculous birth of Jesus were true historical events when they were only stories written by creative religious authors meant to reinforce national identity for Jews or to give a historically "believable" platform for Christianity. A prophet who took these tales as reality will of course be exposed by modern scrutiny and that is the inevitable fate of Muhammad and his book. A modern prophet brings this unwelcome but truthful news because it takes a prophet to overcome a prophet.
No one ever can overcome prophet Mohammed not even overcome some of what prophet Mohammed teach. You really have no idea who is prophet Mohammed. There is an arabic saying: "if you don't know and you don't know that you don't know so this is a disaster".
Read about Prophet Mohammed in here:
http://www.geocities.com/baron_night84/DO_YOU_KNOW_HIM1.pps#256,1,Slide
And yeah, bring any evidence for anything from now and on or you will just be ignored by all for repeating the same thing everytime you are here all over and over without any tiny little evidence for what you portray so desperately.
