Can we have different beliefs and still have peace.

[The_Fisher_King]

You always get to keep your beliefs. Your beliefs are conditioned by no one but yourself. But if you fight against others and take up arms against them then obviously you don't want peace. But it is how we act on our beliefs that is important. For instance I can believe homosexuality is improper but still be very kind and loving to those who practice it without harming or hurting anyone.

It is up to each of us to have an attitude that is conducive to peace, that is if we want peace. You have to plant a tree, water it and cultivate it to get fruit so too with peace. It won't just happen unless we are more tolerant and forgiving and willing to overlook humanity's weaknesses and shortcomings.

To have peace we all need to make an effort not just governments.

So if we can stop judging each other and just accept each person as a fellow human being without preconditions then we could have peace but with all sorts of preconditions peace is impossible.

So if we all believe that humanity is one we can have peace if that is our major belief. We can not agree on many matters but if we all believe we are fellow humans we can still have peace.

I think we don't see eye to eye here! See, I think one can want peace in principle but still be prepared to fight/take up arms against others if the occasion demands it. Peace is not for me the be all and end all.

Moreover, I'm not sure I believe that humanity really are one in any important sense. I'm not sure that the fact that we belong to the same species really matters all that much. I think there are more important considerations.

But thank you very much for the conversation!

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Your other post was long; so, I will need to go back and reply better. But I am hoping you are actively reading my posts because I know you disagree but I don't think you disagree because we have difference beliefs. I think we disagree because you are not understanding what I am saying.

So it's ok for Muslims to see the west as infidels and blow up cities and world trade centres? its not ok. They need to be taught a more moderate version of Islam. There is a way of understanding the verses of the Quran in a peaceful manner. You're saying let them hate, let them kill because that's what they believe in? No I can't agree.

This has nothing to do with my point and conversation.

It is your preference to see one truth in all religions.

The point is, there is no one truth. You would have to be Christian, Muslim, Jew, et cetera to understand that there is not one truth.

You saying you are Christian, for example, does not make you so unless you have taken the sacraments of Christ (repent, said jesus is your lord and savior, taken communion, and have been baptize) and Bahaullah has nothing to do with this. The Bible is the only source of your truth (if you are Catholic, The Church would be).

That's why Baha'u'llah came to teach us unity. You're saying we don't need unity? It's ok to have these hatreds and prejudices resulting in bloodshed and wars?

Not in the eyes of Baha'u'llah, Jesus, Muhammad, and Moses. One truth has no favorites. Define unity outside the eyes of Baha'u'llah (and The Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, and Moses).

Baha'u'llah came to teach us all about oneness and we need that knowledge because doing what you're saying is not working. Leaving people to just believe in hatred is not an option. We must encourage and foster love and understanding between faiths.

Remember. If you claim to respect other religions and be other religions, you do not see one truth through your own glasses. You put on everyone's glasses. You do not claim that they are seeing colors of the same reality. You accept the reality they see is either blue, green, orange, or yellow.

Read Plato's Myth of the Cave I won't say what it's about. What you're doing is saying that people are chained up and the one truth is outside the cave. Accept the truth the people see in the cave. If you want to release them, admit that their truth is false. Don't claim to be chained when you say you are not.

Terrorists must be brought to justice but Islam needs to be confronted with the violent interpretations being taught by extremists. We don't just lie down and accept it. To do so is welcoming with open arms WW3.

This has nothing to do with the topic of conversation.

What you're doing is like coming to my home, eating with my family, falling in love with my family, saying that my family loves you, and then say that you are my family even they we have not accepted you as such.

Saying there is one truth is saying that a Christian, Muslim, and Jew believes what you believe as a Bahai.

Respecting people who have different truths is giving Christians, Muslims, and Jews their space which is different than Bahai.

If you believe that everyone is wrong, please say so. Because it is confusing when you say you are Christian but then say they don't see the reality they are just looking in glasses with colors that don't match what reality. is. It's an insult to faiths.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I don't want any religion to say there is one truth because in during so they are taking my culture, my practice, and my religion and making it into everyone's.

Trying to make one truth of all religions is making other religions conform to how you see truth. That is what causes wars.

Differences do not cause wars. Fighting because of our differences does. IF we respect and give each other their "space" then wars would not happen. But because people feel they have the one truth and they act on it they will cause wars.

Having different beliefs and still have peace means we respect people for their difference to the point of not making them conform to one truth. There is not one truth. Every religion "gets" that but UU, Bahai, and others I cannot think of at the moment. I don't know why since they don't speak for other religions and their beliefs.

No ones taking away any culture. It's just a recognition that all the religions are true and all their Founders are true.

This is not happening as you well know. People are going around abusing other people's Faiths and it's a cause of hatred and prejudice resulting in bloodshed, terrorism and war.

You can keep your culture and belief but why should any religion be taught or believe the other religions and their Founders are evil and burn their Holy Books and insult their religion.

If they have their own why are their own beliefs leading them to hate on others' space' as you call it. Isn't it the right of everyone to freely believe in their Faith without being cursed and hated for it by members of other religions?

It's clear the religions must find peace or its WW3.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Your other post was long; so, I will need to go back and reply better. But I am hoping you are actively reading my posts because I know you disagree but I don't think you disagree because we have difference beliefs. I think we disagree because you are not understanding what I am saying.


This has nothing to do with my point and conversation.

It is your preference to see one truth in all religions.

The point is, there is no one truth. You would have to be Christian, Muslim, Jew, et cetera to understand that there is not one truth.

You saying you are Christian, for example, does not make you so unless you have taken the sacraments of Christ (repent, said jesus is your lord and savior, taken communion, and have been baptize) and Bahaullah has nothing to do with this. The Bible is the only source of your truth (if you are Catholic, The Church would be).



Not in the eyes of Baha'u'llah, Jesus, Muhammad, and Moses. One truth has no favorites. Define unity outside the eyes of Baha'u'llah (and The Buddha, Muhammad, Jesus, and Moses).



Remember. If you claim to respect other religions and be other religions, you do not see one truth through your own glasses. You put on everyone's glasses. You do not claim that they are seeing colors of the same reality. You accept the reality they see is either blue, green, orange, or yellow.

Read Plato's Myth of the Cave I won't say what it's about. What you're doing is saying that people are chained up and the one truth is outside the cave. Accept the truth the people see in the cave. If you want to release them, admit that their truth is false. Don't claim to be chained when you say you are not.



This has nothing to do with the topic of conversation.

What you're doing is like coming to my home, eating with my family, falling in love with my family, saying that my family loves you, and then say that you are my family even they we have not accepted you as such.

Saying there is one truth is saying that a Christian, Muslim, and Jew believes what you believe as a Bahai.

Respecting people who have different truths is giving Christians, Muslims, and Jews their space which is different than Bahai.

If you believe that everyone is wrong, please say so. Because it is confusing when you say you are Christian but then say they don't see the reality they are just looking in glasses with colors that don't match what reality. is. It's an insult to faiths.

You are saying the same thing that all of them are true.

 

[loverofhumanity]

Okay! I suspect Baha'u'llah might have viewed my religion as one of those which are the outcome of human perversity! So perhaps I'm one of your outcasts! (it's okay, it's not that I mind!)

No one said that and I didn't infer it.

If it wasn't a religion revealed by God then it is man made.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I see the problem (in my opinion) is now. You have a right to your opinion; I just find it's a bias, generalization, and lack of understanding of other faiths from their perspective

No ones taking away any culture. It's just a recognition that all the religions are true and all their Founders are true.

The founder of my religion (if I had one) is not part of your one truth. My beliefs do not cause me to hate. If you respect and accept that I am not part of your one truth, we are on the same level. As long as you say I believe in one truth that I have yet to find, you will find opposition. This is what causes wars.

You can keep your culture and belief but why should any religion be taught or believe the other religions and their Founders are evil and burn their Holy Books and insult their religion.

This is where the bias comes from. The Bible does not teach other religions and their founders are evil. The sutras do not teach to burn Holy Books and insult others religions. You would know this if you were Christian or Buddhist.

People abuse their beliefs. Beliefs do not abuse the people.

If they have their own why are their own beliefs leading them to hate on others' space' as you call it. Isn't it the right of everyone to freely believe in their Faith without being cursed and hated for it by members of other religions?

The beliefs do not lead to hate. People abuse their beliefs, not the other way around.

If Christians respect Muslims (and Muslims respect Christians) that neither will believe in each other's founders, and they will have their own space, there would be less killings. However, because, like Bahai, everyone wants everyone else to see that one truth, this is what causes wars.

It's the people not the beliefs. The beliefs do nothing in and of itself.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You are saying the same thing that all of them are true.

I am saying each one is true. There is no one truth. To say there is one (edit) truth is an insult to other religions and their founders.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

No one said that and I didn't infer it.

I did!

If it wasn't a religion revealed by God then it is man made.

Well, I believe God revealed my religion to me!

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am saying each one is true. There is no one truth. To say there is one (edit) truth is an insult to other religions and their founders.

It's not an insult to say other religions and their Founders taught truth and their Holy Books are truth.


They all teach truth and Baha'u'llah acknowledges it.

If thou wilt observe with discriminating eyes, thou wilt behold Them all abiding in the same tabernacle, soaring in the same heaven, seated upon the same throne, uttering the same speech, and proclaiming the same Faith. Such is the unity of those Essences of Being, those Luminaries of infinite and immeasurable splendor!

For they are all but one person, one soul, one spirit, one being, one revelation. They are all the manifestation of the “Beginning” and the “End,” the “First” and the “Last,” the “Seen” and the “Hidden”—all of which pertain to Him Who is the Innermost Spirit of Spirits and Eternal Essence of Essences.

Baha'u'llah

 

[Shad]

However, now that we can view the entire planet as one globe and have things like the internet, are we now able to finally establish some form of peace?

No as we still have the failings we have always had. Our knowledge has increased but not the human condition which is still the same as it has been for centuries.

What if there was only one thing you had to believe for the world to have peace.

This is a malformed question as my belief in something will not cause others nor the world to be peaceful.

Would you embrace it?

It wouldn't matter as my belief does not become one everyone will or can share.

And you could get to keep your own belief as well.

Which will just result in a conflict as other people will still retain their own beliefs regardless of what I believe or not.

If all you had to accept was that all humans are your equal could you do that?

I see no reason to accept that are humans are equal. Some are strong or weaker, some are more educated or less. etc etc. I can and have accepted that people are equal under the law but this is merely one concept with a narrow application.

Could you accept all humanity as your equal?

See above. I see no reason to accept say a murder. I believe I am above such an act so why would I accept such a person as my equal?

Sounds easy doesn't it?

No it sound like a fantasy

But in practise we have been unable to do it without allowing our nationality, race, religion or culture to interfere causing further conflict.

Exactly. As humans are still subject to the human condition.

So whatever our religion or as an atheist or any other position are we aware we might be erecting barriers unknowingly between us and our fellow man?

I think most people are aware of these barriers. Perhaps those or some in the majority are unaware of these barriers. However I think those in the minority face these barriers for most of their life.

Isn't peace up to all of us and not just the politicians?

No as this would lead to tyranny of the majority and the disintegration of society as we know it. Not everyone has the same goal. For some peace means their point of view is dominate at the expense of others.

Shouldn't our attitude be one of unconditional acceptance of one another if we really want peace?

No as there are many views that are exclusive to each other. Some views are outright horrible which are a danger to society. I have see no reason to accept everything people believe in for the sake of peace. We need to make compromises between our different divisions. I believe secularism is a worthwhile goal for all. However many reject secularism. So why should I accept their rejection of a compromise?

We don't have to always agree but shouldn't we be tolerant?

Some people have a radical different idea of tolerance than I. For some criticism of their ideas or beliefs is intolerance.

 

[loverofhumanity]

No as we still have the failings we have always had. Our knowledge has increased but not the human condition which is still the same as it has been for centuries.



This is a malformed question as my belief in something will not cause others nor the world to be peaceful.



It wouldn't matter as my belief does not become one everyone will or can share.




Which will just result in a conflict as other people will still retain their own beliefs regardless of what I believe or not.



I see no reason to accept that are humans are equal. Some are strong or weaker, some are more educated or less. etc etc. I can and have accepted that people are equal under the law but this is merely one concept with a narrow application.



See above. I see no reason to accept say a murder. I believe I am above such an act so why would I accept such a person as my equal?



No it sound like a fantasy



Exactly. As humans are still subject to the human condition.



I think most people are aware of these barriers. Perhaps those or some in the majority are unaware of these barriers. However I think those in the minority face these barriers for most of their life.



No as this would lead to tyranny of the majority and the disintegration of society as we know it. Not everyone has the same goal. For some peace means their point of view is dominate at the expense of others.



No as there are many views that are exclusive to each other. Some views are outright horrible which are a danger to society. I have see no reason to accept everything people believe in for the sake of peace. We need to make compromises between our different divisions. I believe secularism is a worthwhile goal for all. However many reject secularism. So why should I accept their rejection of a compromise?



Some people have a radical different idea of tolerance than I. For some criticism of their ideas or beliefs is intolerance.

It's good to hear different viewpoints. I still think we have a long way to go to Korean how to get along in their world and that it includes acceptance of the oneness of humanity.

 

[dgirl1986]

It's hard enough getting cultures to exist along side each other, religion seems to complicate things further.

 

[Shad]

It's good to hear different viewpoints. I still think we have a long way to go to Korean how to get along in their world and that it includes acceptance of the oneness of humanity.

I agree. However in my view the first step is to let go of primitive tribal belief systems which would include most religions that are in the majority. Most of these have a clear division between those that believe and those that do not. The rhetoric regarding those that do not believe is horrible. The rhetoric regarding the believer creates "special snowflake syndrome" in which the believer is in some way is superior regardless of their individual accomplishments over those that are not believers.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I did!



Well, I believe God revealed my religion to me!

I'm happy for you and also happy that we can discuss.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I agree. However in my view the first step is to let go of primitive tribal belief systems which would include most religions that are in the majority. Most of these have a clear division between those that believe and those that do not. The rhetoric regarding those that do not believe is horrible. The rhetoric regarding the believer creates "special snowflake syndrome" in which the believer is in some way is superior regardless of their individual accomplishments over those that are not believers.

I have the deepest admiration when someone opposes this superiority, exclusiveness 'I am saved you are not rubbish'. It destroys the foundation of civility. Muslims do it Christians do it and other religions do it too saying that everyone is wrong and they are right.

We are all 'infidels' or not 'saved'. What utter nonsense!! Who are these self appointed Gods going around telling us who is superior and who is inferior? It's nonsense and it is better to have no religion at all than to join anyone saying all others are damned except them.

How about 'all humanity are basically good'? How about we are one human family? What's wrong with not feeling superior? - too big a hit for some people's ego I suppose to accept all are fellow human beings.

Religion must create peace not cause wars.

 

[loverofhumanity]

I am saying each one is true. There is no one truth. To say there is one (edit) truth is an insult to other religions and their founders.

Maybe we are saying the same thing but expressing it differently.

I think we agree on more than we each think.

Wouldn't it be funny if we really agree but getting lost in semantics.

Anyway I think you're a very good person and have a lot of spiritual awareness and you teach me a lot. Im hopeless at words. I always say what I don't mean but somewhere in there is some truth.

 

[Electriceclectic]

This is one of the hot questions of the age. Throughout history our opposing beliefs have led to wars, division, hatred and prejudice - anything but peace.

However, now that we can view the entire planet as one globe and have things like the internet, are we now able to finally establish some form of peace?

Apparently not, it has just given us another medium to fight in. Even in Facebook .

What if there was only one thing you had to believe for the world to have peace. Would you embrace it? And you could get to keep your own belief as well.

yes. As long as it isnt a worse thing , or leads to a worse thing. Or even a bad thing I had to do personally, to help many more people ( thats an old ethical problem ) .

Anyway, hard to choose without knowing what that 'one thing' is ? Hopefully, nothing to do with nukes.

If all you had to accept was that all humans are your equal could you do that? Could you accept all humanity as your equal?

No, I couldnt accept that , as I dont understand what you mean as equal . I am prepared to give all equal rights depending on their behaviour , and actions, I do not believe in prejudice ( pre judgement ) due to their beliefs, ethnicity, color or religion.

Sounds easy doesn't it? But in practise we have been unable to do it without allowing our nationality, race, religion or culture to interfere causing further conflict.

Collectively, no . I have been able to and I know many who have . But not all people are 'equal' some are more advanced than others ; for example , some people still suffer zenophobia .

So whatever our religion or as an atheist or any other position are we aware we might be erecting barriers unknowingly between us and our fellow man?

yes.

Isn't peace up to all of us and not just the politicians? Shouldn't our attitude be one of unconditional acceptance of one another if we really want peace? We don't have to always agree but shouldn't we be tolerant?

yes. I am peaceful, evolved and tolerant (and I certainly do not agree at times ) but what you gonna do about the war mongering monkey men out there ? Especially the one's using religion for atrocities ?

(He he he ... now I start the dialectic on you )

Someone once said something like ; ' If people cat find peace and religion continues to be the cause of war , we should get rid of religion '.

Wait ! Wasn't that Abdul Baha ! ?

...... or maybe throw out the religion that is doing it ... or throw your religion out for yourself . I have heard some Peshmerga say that they are sick of Islam and IS . Some say they will revert to Zoroastrianism, there is a new temple in tajikistan, I think .

[/QUOTE]

 

[Electriceclectic]

And didnt Abdul baha promise peace by the end of the century .... last century .

I am pretty sure he did !

 

[loverofhumanity]

Apparently not, it has just given us another medium to fight in. Even in Facebook .



yes. As long as it isnt a worse thing , or leads to a worse thing. Or even a bad thing I had to do personally, to help many more people ( thats an old ethical problem ) .

Anyway, hard to choose without knowing what that 'one thing' is ? Hopefully, nothing to do with nukes.



No, I couldnt accept that , as I dont understand what you mean as equal . I am prepared to give all equal rights depending on their behaviour , and actions, I do not believe in prejudice ( pre judgement ) due to their beliefs, ethnicity, color or religion.



Collectively, no . I have been able to and I know many who have . But not all people are 'equal' some are more advanced than others ; for example , some people still suffer zenophobia .



yes.



yes. I am peaceful, evolved and tolerant (and I certainly do not agree at times ) but what you gonna do about the war mongering monkey men out there ? Especially the one's using religion for atrocities ?

(He he he ... now I start the dialectic on you )

Someone once said something like ; ' If people cat find peace and religion continues to be the cause of war , we should get rid of religion '.

Wait ! Wasn't that Abdul Baha ! ?

...... or maybe throw out the religion that is doing it ... or throw your religion out for yourself . I have heard some Peshmerga say that they are sick of Islam and IS . Some say they will revert to Zoroastrianism, there is a new temple in tajikistan, I think .

[/QUOTE]

You're right. We must get rid of the kinds of religion that cause terrorism and wars and no religion should be allowed unless it is peaceful.

As for peace by the end if the 20th century. It's not the written words of Abdul-Baha but what a reporter understood Him to have said through a translator.

There is so much complete consistency with written words of Baha'u'llah and Abdul-Baha that no one can find an error anywhere so it's no coincidence that words passed on through both a translator as well as a third part non Bahai reporter do not match with His written words.

In all His Tablets nowhere, not once is ever mentioned peace by the 20th century.

Thanks for your observations and opinions.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Maybe we are saying the same thing but expressing it differently.

I think we agree on more than we each think.

Wouldn't it be funny if we really agree but getting lost in semantics.

Anyway I think you're a very good person and have a lot of spiritual awareness and you teach me a lot. Im hopeless at words. I always say what I don't mean but somewhere in there is some truth.

Haha. I always mean what I didnt mean to say. Im hoping we are saying the same thing but one thing we disagree on is manefestations of the different founders from one and Buddhism having a god just by another name.

How would you want to create unity among religions without taking the very part that makes them differentbans truths different?

What can you tell christ, for example, that Buhuallah has any relations to him? and how can Bahaulah convince Ths Buddha there is only one god? (which is not the same as one truth in some faiths)

How do you define one truth for every other religion through the eyes of someone who is not part of that religion literally by practice, belief, and tradition?

The Bahai faith is somewhat confusing. I dont understand how their can be a Bahai faith if everyone believes in one truth. What makes Bahai different since we share one truth by different name?