Can you believe in the infallabilty of the bible?

[Shermana]

Careful, Nazarene. You're gonna dig yourself a hole, here.

What does it, indeed, tell us about Nazarenes who don't walk on water?

I never said I fit the requirements of a true believer, I'm just trying to reconstruct what I believe is the original. Maybe one day I'll be involved with a miracle. I'm not making claims that I'm saved or a true disciple like most "Christians" seem to. Corinthians is much about supernatural "gifts" that Disciples of the Church can expect to have. Apparently Paul only meant the generation at the time?

Either way, the case is kinda clear. Jesus did in fact mean, according to what is said, that those who truly "believe in" him will have Supernatural abilities greater than what he allegedly was able to perform, this is basically what Acts is conveying the whole time. The idea that Peter and Paul allegedly raised people from the dead quashes any kind of metaphorical explanation of this.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Oh, I see. So one source outside the scriptural texts that doesn't particularly lionize Jesus as being special in any supernatural way completely overshadows all the biblical texts and renders them "dishonest and ludicrous."

The only text I indicated being dishonest and ludicrous was and is yours.

 

[sojourner]

The only text I indicated being dishonest and ludicrous was and is yours.

In what way is it "dishonest and ludicrous" to assert that the biblical texts do portray Jesus as "more than just a person?":areyoucra
especially if you're saying here that the texts are not "dishonest and ludicrous?"

Isn't that just a little dishonest? and ludicrous?

 

[sojourner]

I never said I fit the requirements of a true believer

Of course not...

 

[waitasec]

In what way is it "dishonest and ludicrous" to assert that the biblical texts do portray Jesus as "more than just a person?":areyoucra
especially if you're saying here that the texts are not "dishonest and ludicrous?"

Isn't that just a little dishonest? and ludicrous?

i don't think jay was referring to biblical texts...he was referring to
this post, if i am not mistaken.

What makes you think he was "just a person?" The only historical references to Jesus tout him as being more than "just a person."
Those references also state that he did have special knowledge.

lets clear this up...
are you referring to josephus or the gospels?

 

[waitasec]

There is a reference to the darkness in an extra biblical source but I forget the name. One of the ones I posted previously has a supernatural reference of some kind. However even if it was on television critics would just find another reason to disbelieve.

why???
is there a conspiracy i am not aware of?

 

[waitasec]

every person does that, simply by being born.

i disagree
the world is filled with followers, only few lead

 

[1robin]

Muslim scientists contributed much of the great share of scientific advances during the medieval era. Atheists have invented many vaccines. The context was clearly referring to his acts like healing and feeding people with miracles, it can only be talking about miracles unless you want to explain why both Christians and Muslims and Atheists all share in your interpretation. Besides, how does the miracles of the Apostles in Acts in any way jive with this interpretation? How does Peter and Paul raising people from the dead jive with that? Why were Peter and Paul able to raise the dead but not modern "Christians"?

If you feel that limiting the context of those verses is valid then you are welcome to it. I have no set position on them but have considered that the global availability of the gospel message may have been applicable, etc...... It does not say that others will not do great things as well. I am not even sure how within your context there is an answer to the verses in question.

 

[waitasec]

If you hadn't said I was funny I would have thought you were just as serious as any other point. In fact it is no worse than what you are saying. I just meant that you kept posting sisters in the verses and I could not find it in any.

how does that add to the conversation?

I have already posted three commentators, cross-references at blue letter bible, the absence of any commentator agreeing with you, and my own personal interpretation and reason why it applies to our fellow man. What do I have to post that you consider on the issue if this wasn't enough? It is far more substantial than the missenterpretation made in an evidence vacume and for no other reason than preference that I can see. He meant everyone for the 10th time.

ok so let me get this straight...

you claim jesus means everyone when he says "brother"
yet he is gong to divide brother against brother with his sword, meaning believers and non believers...is that right?

 

[1robin]

why???
is there a conspiracy i am not aware of?

Apparently so.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Satan along with our willing but unknowing cooperation trivialises the momentous, complecates the obvious, belittles the profound, and makes the simple confusing.

 

[waitasec]

Apparently so.
New Living Translation (©2007)
Satan, who is the god of this world, has blinded the minds of those who don't believe. They are unable to see the glorious light of the Good News. They don't understand this message about the glory of Christ, who is the exact likeness of God.
2 Corinthians 4:4 The god of this age has blinded the minds of unbelievers, so that they cannot see the light of the gospel of the glory of Christ, who is the image of God.

Satan along with our willing but unknowing cooperation trivialises the momentous, complecates the obvious, belittles the profound, and makes the simple confusing.

pure conjecture....

based on wishful thinking that this idea has anything to offer to the fact that skeptics are a thorn in the believers side and the only way to reconcile honest skepticism is to blame poor old satan

 

[waitasec]

Satan along with our willing but unknowing cooperation trivialises the momentous, complecates the obvious, belittles the profound, and makes the simple confusing.

how does that work exactly?

 

[1robin]

how does that add to the conversation?

It probably didn't Mrs. Parrot. However this an an exception for me but is the rule for you.

ok so let me get this straight...

That will be the day.

you claim jesus means everyone when he says "brother"
yet he is gong to divide brother against brother with his sword, meaning believers and non believers...is that right?

I think that he meant brother in the verses that said what happens if we are angry without cause with our brothers. I am not suggesting that you may then apply that definition for brother every where the word appears. As may be your want. It may fit in these other verses I have not checked.

 

[1robin]

how does that work exactly?

I can give you what I have come to understand which is biblically correct but is a small slice of the larger picture. We have a natural/or unatural desire to avoid accountability. When the subject is introduced which suggests our ultimate and absolute accountability, in our scramble to avoid this result we cling to every lie and distortion that Satan, his minions or even other people may offer as a reason to dismiss the concept. I do not know exactly how this works just that its effects are obvious. It can be thought of as the old cartoon angel and devil on either side whispering to us. It is a sort of spiritual version of Satan in the garden. That is admittadly crude and simplistic but reasonably close to the effect. If you want details and many case by case testimonies the Catholics are experts in spiritual warfare and are a good source. That is at least one thing they got right. I could go on much longer but I have learned that just gives you more hairs to split. If by chance you actually cared I have given you the correct direction to look in.

 

[waitasec]

I think that he meant brother in the verses that said what happens if we are angry without cause with our brothers.

you are not being clear...do you mean your parents other son, fellow believer or neighbor...?

I am not suggesting that you may then apply that definition for brother every where the word appears. As may be your want. It may fit in these other verses I have not checked.

if this is true then jesus entire ministry is one big convoluted pile of ambiguity...when it comes to how we are to treat our parents other son, fellow believer or neighbor

 

[waitasec]

I can give you what I have come to understand which is biblically correct but is a small slice of the larger picture. We have a natural/or unatural desire to avoid accountability. When the subject is introduced which suggests our ultimate and absolute accountability, in our scramble to avoid this result we cling to every lie and distortion that Satan, his minions or even other people may offer as a reason to dismiss the concept. I do not know exactly how this works just that its effects are obvious. It can be thought of as the old cartoon angel and devil on either side whispering to us. It is a sort of spiritual version of Satan in the garden. That is admittadly crude and simplistic but reasonably close to the effect. If you want details and many case by case testimonies the Catholics are experts in spiritual warfare and are a good source. That is at least one thing they got right. I could go on much longer but I have learned that just gives you more hairs to split. If by chance you actually cared I have given you the correct direction to look in.

or one saves themselves and trades in their culpability for eternal life

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

In what way is it "dishonest and ludicrous" to assert that the biblical texts do portray Jesus as "more than just a person."

Again, you wrote:

What makes you think he was "just a person?" The only historical references to Jesus tout him as being more than "just a person." Those references also state that he did have special knowledge.

If, by "historical references" you mean the gospels and epistles - excluding, e.g., Josephus, Tacitus, teh Talmud, etc. - then your statement is simply worthless since it does no more than assert that Christian scripture promotes Christian claims. (And let us all say: amen ... and thanks for sharing.)

 

[1robin]

or one saves themselves and trades in their culpability for eternal life

Did you just adopt a new mantra and are posting it in reply to every other post whether it fits or not?

 

[waitasec]

Did you just adopt a new mantra and are posting it in reply to every other post whether it fits or not?

you look forward to my posts don't you

 

[1robin]

you look forward to my posts don't you

In a sick twisted sort of way maybe. Even though I have figured out many aspects of the way you think and the tactics you use, but have never understood the driving force or governing dynamics behind it all fully until last night. It all of a sudden became clear and explains everything. When I find time I will be sure and share it. Try not to explode with anticipation until then.