can you proove there isn't a deity?

[outhouse]

so are you lying to us, to yourself, or perhaps all the above?

I have a severe dislike for liars.


My very small ignore list just increased.


When we factually show him actual pictures of electrons and they are hand waved off due to what ever pathetic reason, no debate can be had.

Reason, and logic, and education and knowledge are refused. It shoes the danger of theism.

 

[Sonofason]

Ah, so you are merely preaching to the choir?

If you have no credibility, how do you think you will convince anyone of anything?

You are the one making a claim that I have no credibility. I merely suggested that I am not trying to be credible. One does not need to try to be credible in order to be credible.

 

[Sonofason]

:biglaugh:

You know your "argument" is worthless if all you have to grasp onto is "you cannot prove my claim false", right?

And did you know that your argument is also worthless if all you have to grasp onto is a lack of evidence?

 

[Sonofason]

How is that going to happen when you have flat out stated you will not allow yourself to accept anything that you think goes against your beliefs?

so are you lying to us, to yourself, or perhaps all the above?

Indeed, how is it supposed to happen if you fail to provide convincing evidence?

 

[Sonofason]

And neither can one thing at all be shown to be attributed to god.

Yes, I believe you already mentioned that. But, I am fully capable of attributing God's creation to God without being compelled to even try to show even one thing to be attributed to God.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

Hello Kloth,

Those that claim there's no God know within themselves that God exists but denies it because they don't want to consider themselves responsible for their wrongs.

Is that kinda like me saying...

Those that claim Shiva is not real know within themselves that Shiva is real, but they are trying to avoid responsibility for their own actions.

OR

Those that claim Scientology is not real know within themselves that Scientology is real, but they are trying to avoid responsibility for their own actions.

OR

Those that claim ancestor worship is not real know within themselves that ancestor worship is real, but they are trying to avoid responsibility for their own actions.

OR

Is it just a self-serving statement of self-righteousness that has no basis in reality, but reflects a bigoted view unsupportable by evidence.

======================================================

(Just for clarity, I'm leaning towards the last one...)

 

[Sonofason]

I have a severe dislike for liars.


My very small ignore list just increased.


When we factually show him actual pictures of electrons and they are hand waved off due to what ever pathetic reason, no debate can be had.

Reason, and logic, and education and knowledge are refused. It shoes the danger of theism.

Please tell me the dangers of not accepting bogus claims. Please, tell me the dangers of not accepting a pretty picture as proof of electrons. Why not show evidence instead of pretty pictures?

 

[Ingledsva]

None. I also have no proof that there isn't an invisible purple dragon sitting on my desk. However, reason dictates that a belief that it exists, is unfounded.

Let's see, how many people believe that there is an invisible purple dragon sitting on your desk?

And

How many people believe that a God exists?

See the difference?

My Bibles have dragons, and unicorns, talking donkeys, Necromancers, Sorcerers, magic, etc.

Why should I believe in the god of these Bibles any differently then the other mythical creatures in them?


*

 

[Ingledsva]

Somehow people have become convinced that a god exists. For some reason, you have not been convinced. Why that is, is a more curious question.

Actually superstition, fear, and wonder, about thunder and other natural events, death and rebirth of plant life, etc, in our ancient past, led to people coming up with animism, then eventually on to religions as we know them.

Obviously there are MANY Gods and Goddesses, even animal Gods, that people believe in and worship. Yours is no different then any of the rest.

You don't believe in the Greek pantheon, or any of the thousands of other religions, - so - using the same logic - why should anyone believe in yours?



*

 

[outhouse]

My Bibles have dragons, and unicorns, talking donkeys, Necromancers, Sorcerers, magic, etc.

Why should I believe in the god of these Bibles any differently then the other mythical creatures in it?


*

I want to quote this in other threads

 

[Ingledsva]

I am not suggesting that there is scientific evidence for God. I'm not sure there ever will be scientific evidence of God, until every eye beholds Him. But I do have "personal" evidence of God, because I experience God.

You see, the best evidence that I exist is me. If you experience me, it is rather safe to believe that I exist. If I hide myself from you, you will not find me. If I cover my tracks well, you will never find evidence of me. But I could still exist, hidden from your sight.

God is the best evidence for the existence of God. And God can and does allow people to experience Him. If I experience God, and you don't, then I have evidence of God, and you don't. God reveals Himself to whom He chooses to reveal Himself.

So, I'm right after all.

Your personal experience with what you assume to be a God, is not evidence of a God for anyone else.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

Well, considering that I've never been to a Sunday school, I find your assertion concerning me to be somewhat lacking.

While it is true that the Israel culture meshed with the Canaanite culture, there is no evidence to suggest that belief in YHWH did not exist among the Hebrew people prior to the two cultures coming together.

YHVH of the Elohiym doesn't even show up until Gen 2:7. The Elohiym (plural) created male and female in THEIR image.

We know for a fact that the Hebrew originally worshipped other Gods, including a mated God and Goddess (Asherah.) The Bible itself names some of these, and tells us the people kept turning BACK to them, baking cakes for the Queen of Heaven, etc. In fact we are told they set Asherah back up in the Temple.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

Am I to accept your bible (wikipedia) as truth? Sorry, I don't accept Wikipedia as certain truth. But I do accept the Bible as historical truth.

Then you should actually read it again, as it tells us they originally worshiped other Gods and Goddesses.

Throughout Kings they are constantly being killed for setting the old Gods back up in the Temple.


*

 

[Ingledsva]

My Bibles have dragons, and unicorns, talking donkeys, Necromancers, Sorcerers, magic, etc.

Why should I believe in the god of these Bibles any differently then the other mythical creatures in it?

I want to quote this in other threads

Feel free to do so. LOL!


*

 

[Sonofason]

My Bibles have dragons, and unicorns, talking donkeys, Necromancers, Sorcerers, magic, etc.

Why should I believe in the god of these Bibles any differently then the other mythical creatures in them?


*

Yes, The Bible contains stories that may or may not be documentation of an existence of dragons, unicorns, talking donkeys, etc. I am not suggesting that anyone should necessarily believe in the God of any Bible, nor the stories they contain, just as I would not suggest that anyone should necessarily believe in the mythological stories of the Greeks, or any other mythological story. But I would also not suggest to anyone that they should reject any of these stories, simply because they have not themselves experienced a God or one of these mythological creatures. When one has no direct evidence of a thing, especially in the light of possible documentation and claims that the thing existed, I personally think it best to approach the matter with an open mind and reserve judgment until one has sufficient information, understanding and of course evidence, if there be any, to make an informed, reasonable decision with regard to it's possible existence.

I know now what I perceive dragons to be. But that in no way suggests that I perfectly understand the meaning and intent of the ancient word that was translated into the English word dragon. When someone speaks of dragons, I envision my own perception of what I perceive a dragon to be. Is it the same? I just don't know. I lack information. I lack understanding. And I lack evidence.

"Where did they get such an idea? Did it stem from a universal human imagination? An inherited need or instinct? An inherited subconscious memory of dinosaurs? All these suggestions have been made, and taken seriously by groups of people. I believe dragons are the reflection, sometimes embellished through retelling but mostly historical, of actual physical encounters of human beings with dinosaurs."
For more visit Dragon History

So then, when we reject the word dragon, are we then rejecting dinosaurs?
Do you believe that dinosaurs didn't exist?

It seems that the word dragon has it's root in the word serpent. Some like to make fun of the passages of the Bible that speak of a talking serpent. They liken serpents to a snake, and then poke fun of scripture because it suggests "to them" that the Bible speaks of talking snakes. But I have a dictionary that defines serpent as "a treacherous person". Are there not treacherous people in the world? Can they not talk?

Dismissing the Bible and it's stories because one fails to investigate the claims is in my opinion very sad. Why indeed would someone desire to allow ignorance to be a motive for belief?

The Greeks have stories about giants being in the land. The Bible has a stories of giants in the land. Why dismiss such claims out of ignorance, and a lack of understanding?

 

[McBell]

Dismissing the Bible and it's stories because one fails to investigate the claims is in my opinion very sad. Why indeed would someone desire to allow ignorance to be a motive for belief?

The Greeks have stories about giants being in the land. The Bible has a stories of giants in the land. Why dismiss such claims out of ignorance, and a lack of understanding?

Is this to say it is your claim that those who dismiss the Bible and it's stories only do so from lack of investigation?

And where does that leave those who reject the Bible and it's stories BECAUSE of said investigation?

 

[Sonofason]

Actually superstition, fear, and wonder, about thunder and other natural events, death and rebirth of plant life, etc, in our ancient past, led to people coming up with animism, then eventually on to religions as we know them.

Obviously there are MANY Gods and Goddesses, even animal Gods, that people believe in and worship. Yours is no different then any of the rest.

You don't believe in the Greek pantheon, or any of the thousands of other religions, - so - using the same logic - why should anyone believe in yours?

*

This is of course your opinion. It could be that human beings experience God, but lack a comprehensive understanding of God. It could be that they have attributed such things as thunder and other natural events to this God out of fear. It could actually be that God is responsible for thunder. If it is possible that God created the physical laws of the universe, and the matter it governs, then it would not be far fetched for one to say, God did it.

You make a false presumption when you say that I don't believe in the Greek pantheon. I most certainly do believe in it. Do I believe there might have been embellishments? Do I believe the stories are accurate and precise? I must say, I lack information, I lack understanding, and I lack the evidence to make such a determination. But I certainly believe it is quite possible that those stories are at least based in fact.

I am not suggesting you should believe the stories. I am suggesting you should not disbelieve the stories until you are better informed.

 

[Sonofason]

Your personal experience with what you assume to be a God, is not evidence of a God for anyone else.


*

Actually my claim that I experience God is evidence for others. But I admit, it is very weak evidence. You should know that what I believe concerning my experience is not fabricated. You should know that I at least believe that I am not delusional. If my experience of God is a delusion, then it is the only instance in my life of this delusion. Certainly, no one has ever suggested to me that they believe I've lost my wits. I see no reason to believe I have.

 

[Sonofason]

YHVH of the Elohiym doesn't even show up until Gen 2:7. The Elohiym (plural) created male and female in THEIR image.

We know for a fact that the Hebrew originally worshipped other Gods, including a mated God and Goddess (Asherah.) The Bible itself names some of these, and tells us the people kept turning BACK to them, baking cakes for the Queen of Heaven, etc. In fact we are told they set Asherah back up in the Temple.


*

You must know, if you've read your Bible, that nothing was created of God without His Son. They were together before the beginning of creation. So why should God be used in the singular just because they are one God?

Yes, perhaps you should have another look at Genesis, Chapter 6. Perhaps you will wonder if these giants that were referred to might have had qualities that might have caused feeble men to perceive them as gods. Such creatures, in my opinion, seem to resemble the stories of Greek mythology.

 

[Sonofason]

Then you should actually read it again, as it tells us they originally worshiped other Gods and Goddesses.

Throughout Kings they are constantly being killed for setting the old Gods back up in the Temple.


*

A god can be many things, and they can be worshiped by anyone. It says very little about the one true God.