nPeace
Veteran Member
Yeah GB also stands for Gigabyte.
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Can you Unravel the Mystery?
- Thread starter nPeace
- Start date
What "government body" would you be referring to? The "personal discernment" addressed by 1 John 2:18-19, was with respect to the "antichrist" who had already "risen", and apparently and gone out "from us", as apparently described in Revelation 13:11, as being the "two horns like a lamb", the two Christ like leaders, Peter and Paul, who are the foundation stones of the Roman Catholic Church, the church whose dogmas were established at the Council of Nicaea, which was aligned with the "beast", the Roman emperor Constantine, and his convened Council. I think the GB rules of your religion were established in 325 A.D. and 367 A.D. by the "beast" and his cohorts.
1 John 2:18 Children, it is the last hour; and just as you heard that antichrist is coming, even now many antichrists have appeared; from this we know that it is the last hour. 19They went out from us, but they were not really of us; for if they had been
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
So, the Church that selected the canon you use was the "beast", eh? And that makes sense how?
BTW, the "GB" of the Catholic Church does not eliminate the right we have of personal discretion, so there's not much of a similarity at all as we don't shun those within our denomination nor outside of it. I could be the "poster child" for that as there's numerous areas whereas I disagree with the Church, and my priest well knows at least some of these. One area is my commitment to non-violence, and another is how I view the power of the sacraments. Frankly, I feel comfortable in most churches today and also with other religious faiths even if I disagree with them on some very important matters.
The "beast"(king/kingdom) gets its "authority" from the "dragon"/devil (Revelation 13:4). Babylon and her harlot daughters, which includes the Gentile churches, sits on the "beast"(Rome)(Revelation 17:3). The "beast" of Revelation 13:3-4 is Julius Caesar, the precursor to the "another beast", Constantine (Rev 13:11), who set up the Roman Catholic church through the dogmas of his convened Council of Nicaea.So, the Church that selected the canon you use was the "beast", eh? And that makes sense how?
BTW, the "GB" of the Catholic Church does not eliminate the right we have of personal discretion, so there's not much of a similarity at all as we don't shun those within our denomination nor outside of it. I could be the "poster child" for that as there's numerous areas whereas I disagree with the Church, and my priest well knows at least some of these. One area is my commitment to non-violence, and another is how I view the power of the sacraments. Frankly, I feel comfortable in most churches today and also with other religious faiths even if I disagree with them on some very important matters.
Revelation 13:4
King James Bible
And they worshipped the dragon which gave power unto the beast: and they worshipped the beast, saying, Who is like unto the beast? who is able to make war with him?
InChrist
Free4ever
A few thoughts:
Rome, the Vatican sits on seven hills. The popes, claiming to be vicars of Christ have committed spiritual fornication with the kings of the earth by their unholy religious/political alliances with world leaders since the time of Constantine. The Roman Empire will be revived and this unholy religious/political system will bring in a one world religion united with global government under the final antichrist world leader.
“The woman in Revelation 17 can only be Rome/Vatican City. No other city built on seven hills wields such authority, exchanging ambassadors with nations. Nor does any other city claim to represent Christ, and thus no other could stand accused of spiritual fornication due to unholy alliances with earth's rulers. Neither can any other city rival the blood of both Jews and Christians which pagan Rome and later the Vatican have shed.”
The Christian church, after being granted recognition and freedom by Constantine, soon became the persecutor of all those who did not submit to its doctrines. Like Islam a few centuries later, Christianity was imposed upon the entire populace of Europe under the threat of torture and death. Christ told His disciples that whosoever would be the greatest must be the servant of all. Instead, the popes aspired to be masters of the world. Church and state joined in adulterous partnership to expand the "Holy Roman Empire" by enforcing conversion with the sword.
“The Roman Catholic Church began to believe it had replaced Israel as God's chosen people. That land, promised by God to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, now belonged, for new and holier reasons, to "Christian" Rome, the new Zion. The pagan empire had become the Holy Roman Empire, the "Kingdom of God" on earth. The hope of its revival was the dream of all Europe during the Middle Ages––a goal which will be accomplished at last by Antichrist. The revived Roman Empire over which he will rule, with enthusiastic Vatican support as in the past, will encompass the entire world.”
excepts from:
Mystery, Babylon Part I
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets,...how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34 I will shew
“If that seven-headed beast with ten horns, the revived Roman Empire, is to appear, then the "woman" must hold the reins once again. While the Roman Catholic Church, since the Reformation, saw its supreme power challenged, it has regained much. The Vatican is a sovereign state like any nation. It exchanges ambassadors with the world's nations and participates in international politics. The NCR boasts, "No other church has such privileged access" to top political gatherings.”
Mystery Babylon Part II
And in the days of these [ten] kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.... Daniel 2:44 After this I saw...a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible...and it h
nPeace
Veteran Member
Thanks for your input, InChrist.A few thoughts:
Rome, the Vatican sits on seven hills. The popes, claiming to be vicars of Christ have committed spiritual fornication with the kings of the earth by their unholy religious/political alliances with world leaders since the time of Constantine. The Roman Empire will be revived and this unholy religious/political system will bring in a one world religion united with global government under the final antichrist world leader.
“The woman in Revelation 17 can only be Rome/Vatican City. No other city built on seven hills wields such authority, exchanging ambassadors with nations. Nor does any other city claim to represent Christ, and thus no other could stand accused of spiritual fornication due to unholy alliances with earth's rulers. Neither can any other city rival the blood of both Jews and Christians which pagan Rome and later the Vatican have shed.”
The Christian church, after being granted recognition and freedom by Constantine, soon became the persecutor of all those who did not submit to its doctrines. Like Islam a few centuries later, Christianity was imposed upon the entire populace of Europe under the threat of torture and death. Christ told His disciples that whosoever would be the greatest must be the servant of all. Instead, the popes aspired to be masters of the world. Church and state joined in adulterous partnership to expand the "Holy Roman Empire" by enforcing conversion with the sword.
“The Roman Catholic Church began to believe it had replaced Israel as God's chosen people. That land, promised by God to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob, now belonged, for new and holier reasons, to "Christian" Rome, the new Zion. The pagan empire had become the Holy Roman Empire, the "Kingdom of God" on earth. The hope of its revival was the dream of all Europe during the Middle Ages––a goal which will be accomplished at last by Antichrist. The revived Roman Empire over which he will rule, with enthusiastic Vatican support as in the past, will encompass the entire world.”
excepts from:
Mystery, Babylon Part I
O Jerusalem, Jerusalem, which killest the prophets,...how often would I have gathered thy children together, as a hen doth gather her brood under her wings, and ye would not! Luke 13:34 I will shewwww.thebereancall.org
“If that seven-headed beast with ten horns, the revived Roman Empire, is to appear, then the "woman" must hold the reins once again. While the Roman Catholic Church, since the Reformation, saw its supreme power challenged, it has regained much. The Vatican is a sovereign state like any nation. It exchanges ambassadors with the world's nations and participates in international politics. The NCR boasts, "No other church has such privileged access" to top political gatherings.”
Mystery Babylon Part II
And in the days of these [ten] kings shall the God of heaven set up a kingdom, which shall never be destroyed.... Daniel 2:44 After this I saw...a fourth beast, dreadful and terrible...and it h
I see a couple problems with your "assessment".
First, earth’s inhabitants were made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality.
How is the RCC responsible for the inhabitants of the earth being "made drunk with the wine of her sexual immorality"?
Secondly, the angel said, "The seven heads mean seven mountains, where the woman sits on top, and there are seven kings: Five have fallen, one is, and the other has not yet arrived; but when he does arrive, he must remain a short while. And the wild beast that was but is not, it is also an eighth king, but it springs from the seven, and it goes off into destruction."
So, the angel makes clear that he is not referring to literal mountains, or hill, but rather, symbolic mountains, which represent literal kingdoms.
Five of those had preceded the previous, which is Rome.
Catholicism did not exist then.
So, additionally, how could the Vatican ride a beast of which, its heads - five of them - represent, kingdoms prior to her?
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
What you clearly don't get is that such teachings were given to those on the early Church at that time. We know that it had an optimistic effect on the early Church because it encourages the Way to keep the faith.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Actually, it did but went by the descriptive name of "the Way". In the early 2nd century, "Christian" became more used, but at the end of that century both "catholic" (universal) and orthodox (truth) were used as descriptors. By mid-way through the 3rd century "Catholic" became the most dominant name for the Church.
This is from a non-affiliated source: Christian Church - Wikipedia [the link will take you down to the Church's history]
InChrist
Free4ever
In the NKJV which I usually read it says…
…”Come, I will show you the judgment of the great harlot who sits on many waters, with whom the kings of the earth committed fornication, and the inhabitants of the earth were made drunk with the wine of her fornication.” So I think this is mainly referring to spiritual/political fornication which has been the practice of the Popes and RCC.
I do agree that the seven heads does refer to kings and/or kingdoms. Nevertheless, the fact that Rome where the Vatican is cannot be coincidental considering the history of claiming to represent Christ, while consistently practicing spiritual adultery; which certainly will continue as the one world Beast religious/political system is ushered in and supported by whoever the Pope is at the time.
Although the official organized RCC did not exist in OT times, the antichrist spirit which seeks to unite the world against the true Creator God has been always present.
Well, according to some estimates, true or not, Revelation was not written for the "early" church, as it was purported to have been written as late as around 100 A.D. I am not sure what "optimistic effect" you are speaking of. If you don't keep the Commandments, you drink from the cup of God's wrath (Matthew 14:11-13), whereas those who keep the Commandments, the "saints", have "their deeds follow them". As for those who "commit lawlessness", well, they get tossed into the "furnace of fire" (Matthew 13:39-42).
After the Roman emperor Constantine's Council of Nicaea, and the prescribed dogma of this new Roman church, it was presided over by the pontifex maximus, who was the Roman emperor, who was Constantine. If you didn't tow his line, you were shipped to neverland. It was not until 380 A.D. that Theodosius shut down the competing Arian concept by means of the force of the power of Rome, by kicking out the Arian Bishop, with no recourse. But in total, the Gentile church, was the church of Peter and Paul, and not of Yeshua, and it was riddled with strive, which is why Roman emperor, Theodosius, had to convene another Council in 381 A.D. Today the strive continues between the Protestants (mostly Pauline), and the Catholic church, which is mostly tied to the supposed authority of the "worthless shepherd" Peter (Zechariah 11:16-17).
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Correct.
Basically, it tells those in the Way to stay the course and keep the faith.
Maybe ask yourself if Revelation was not written for those in the Way at that time, then it would have been totally meaningless to them, so why in the world would the author(s) [there may be more than one] do that? That makes 0 sense.
Complete made-up nonsense even on the commonsense level.
Constantine was not a theologian and knew little about the history of the Church, thus he asked that bishops from all around the Mediterranean to meet and resolve some of the conflicts, especially because of numerous deviant groups preaching a somewhat different gospel and using very different texts.
And those in Arianism did merge with the Church after the Council of Nicaea because of a compromise that was reached. And saying that the Church of Paul and Peter is not the Church of Yeshua is totally bizarre to the point that anyone who actually studies early Church history would be either laughing their butts off and/or just sitting here stunned.
The "Gentile church" makes no sense other than fulfilling the prophecy of Hosea 3 & Zechariah 11. "Keep the faith", in what? Apparently not the faith in the real "Word" made flesh, the actual "Word of God", which the Gentile church portrays as being "obsolete" and hung to a cross. And certainly, it expands on the meaning of the "kingdom of heaven", which is meant to be "understood" for those with insight (Daniel 12:10) and kept hidden from those without eyes to see or ears to hear (Matthew 13:11-13). That is why it is still a mystery to the Gentile church, which was started early first century by the false prophet Paul, who was part of the deception with regards to "those who dwell on the earth" (Revelation 13:14)
Constantine was the emperor of Rome, and unlike most of the church bishops, could actually read and write. As for understanding the mixed theologies of this problem causing religion, with their 1200 competing scrolls, he wasn't after understanding, he was after calm in his realm. As for guidance as what to do with them, he had his advisor, the Arian Eusebius. As for the actual people who could read and write, that would include the scribe Athanasius, who supported the false Trinity dogma, and who became the bishop of Alexandria, and the compiler of the most commonly used NT canon, a guy who in his loving way, danced on the grave of Arius. If it is "completely" made up, how is it that Constantine followed in the footsteps of Julius Caesar, and was pontifex maximus, the leader of the Roman pagan church, and the newly compiled Roman "Christian" church?
Pontifex Maximus - Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature -
;Before the time of Constantine the clergy were not recognized as holding any distinct rank in the state; but when Christianity was adopted as the religion of the Roman empire, its ministers were considered as occupying the place of those heathen priests whose superstitions had fallen into
According to Zosimus, Constantine himself, in the year 325, assumed the title of Pontifex Maximus, which the heathen emperors before him had appropriated, because it contributed to exalt at once the imperial and episcopal dignity, and served to justify the interference of the emperor in ecclesiastical councils and in the nomination of bishops.
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Again, the above makes so little sense theologically that there's simply no point in my giving any shrift to it, and I'm not spouting any kind of "Catholic position" in saying this as I'm really not much into Catholic theology to begin with-- a long story that I'll spare ya.Constantine was the emperor of Rome, and unlike most of the church bishops, could actually read and write. As for understanding the mixed theologies of this problem causing religion, with their 1200 competing scrolls, he wasn't after understanding, he was after calm in his realm. As for guidance as what to do with them, he had his advisor, the Arian Eusebius. As for the actual people who could read and write, that would include the scribe Athanasius, who supported the false Trinity dogma, and who became the bishop of Alexandria, and the compiler of the most commonly used NT canon, a guy who in his loving way, danced on the grave of Arius. If it is "completely" made up, how is it that Constantine followed in the footsteps of Julius Caesar, and was pontifex maximus, the leader of the Roman pagan church, and the newly compiled Roman "Christian" church?
325Pontifex Maximus - Cyclopedia of Biblical, Theological and Ecclesiastical Literature -
;Before the time of Constantine the clergy were not recognized as holding any distinct rank in the state; but when Christianity was adopted as the religion of the Roman empire, its ministers were considered as occupying the place of those heathen priests whose superstitions had fallen intowww.studylight.org
According to Zosimus, Constantine himself, in the year 325, assumed the title of Pontifex Maximus, which the heathen emperors before him had appropriated, because it contributed to exalt at once the imperial and episcopal dignity, and served to justify the interference of the emperor in ecclesiastical councils and in the nomination of bishops.
That Constantine and Julius Caesar held the position of pontifex maximus has nothing to do with bogus Catholic theology, but it has to do with actual history. That he influenced Roman Catholic theology, such as setting up and presiding over the Council of Nicaea, and its ensuing dogma of the Trinity, and the setting up the pagan feast of Astarte/Easter, is not theological, but historical. And I can see why a person would want to distance themselves from the Roman Catholic Church of the past and the present.
Almost 1,700 priests and clergy accused of sex abuse are unsupervised
An Associated Press investigation found that those credibly accused are now teachers, coaches, counselors and also live near playgrounds.
www.nbcnews.com
metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
And of course you had to bring up something that simply doesn't directly deal with what we were discussing. Could you stoop any lower?That Constantine and Julius Caesar held the position of pontifex maximus has nothing to do with bogus Catholic theology, but it has to do with actual history. That he influenced Roman Catholic theology, such as setting up and presiding over the Council of Nicaea, and its ensuing dogma of the Trinity, and the setting up the pagan feast of Astarte/Easter, is not theological, but historical. And I can see why a person would want to distance themselves from the Roman Catholic Church of the past and the present.
Almost 1,700 priests and clergy accused of sex abuse are unsupervised
An Associated Press investigation found that those credibly accused are now teachers, coaches, counselors and also live near playgrounds.
There is no deeper "mystery", then who is the "beast with two horns like a lamb", the "beast" who the "woman"/"Babylon" sits on (Rev 17:3),and the mystery of why you discount actual "history" over church dogma, for which you apparently don't even hold to the Roman Catholic church dogma, or even the church, when it comes to their malfeasance and doctrines. What is that saying? "Blowing in the wind". Everyone might want to take Yeshua's advice, and get off the fence, or be subject to being spit out. (Revelation 3:16) (Matthew 6) For one has to "seek" "His kingdom", which is a "mystery" encapsulated into parables (Matthew 13:13-14) or come out on the wrong end of the stick and be blown around by the spirits of error. And "Babylon the Great" is the "women" who sits on the "beast" for which Constantine is the 7th head of the "beast", the "beast" in this instance being the "kingdom" of Rome, the 7th kingdom, is with reference stemming from the kingdom of Nebuchadnezzar, the 1st head, whose "authority" comes from the "dragon"/"devil" (Rev 13 & 17).
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metis
aged ecumenical anthropologist
Hey, you go ahead with your religious bigotry for all I care, but I'm outta here with you as no serious student of theology would propose what you do. Babylon the Great was a reference to the Roman Empire and we know this from other writings, plus the Catholic Church went by a different name back then as I previously posted and supplied you with a non-partisan link that you just blew off.
Oh, and btw, maybe give your Bible to someone who knows how to use it because your "Babylon the Great" mislabeling is the church that selected your canon.
Bye.
You are correct, and that NT "canon" contains both the "message" of the "son of man" (Matthew 13:24-25 &:37-38), and the "message" of the "enemy", the "devil". It was the Protestant reformers who imaged the harlot daughter of Babylon the Great as the Roman Catholic church. Apparently, none of the early "fathers" of the church understood the meaning of Revelation 13 to the full extent, and after the "distress" of Jacob (Jeremiah 30:7), when the "great tribulation" (Matthew 24:21) occurs, the surviving Gentiles/nations, will confess their "fathers" had taught nothing but "falsehoods" (Jeremiah 16:14-19). A "serious student" of the traditions of men, would in fact not agree with my position, as it woud make their traditions a tradition of lies. Plant your flag in the "non-partisan" wikileaks, and see where that gets you. The "ruler of the world", "has nothing in me". (Matthew 14:30). I wouldn't put too much faith in the "experts" nor the "elites" and their media. Hopefully the experts like Fauci get a nice prison term. If only the liars, such as Gore, could get terms as well. I think their followers are already being cursed as the Germans just came out with a study which links the vaccine with major health problems, while their green politics is crashing their world.