Can't religion and evolution be merged as one?

[rusra02]

So you think science doesn't work?

Yes, I believe science has done much to increase mans knowledge of the universe.
I don't believe the ToE is science. It is conjecture and not supported by the scientific facts available. Further, supporters of this theory engage in very unscientific mental bullying to induce others to accept the Kool-aid without question. These misled people do not hear of the weaknesses and just plain guesswork in this theory presented as unassailable "fact". That the earth is a sphere is a fact, not a theory. The notion the brilliant engineering evident in all created things came about by chance is nothing but unsubstantiated fallacy, not fact.

Further, this fraud perpetrated in the name of science has caused immeasurable harm to people spiritually, mentally, and physically. The book Milestones of History noted that “Darwinian ideas formed an integral part of Hitler’s doctrine of racial superiority.” (Quote from g95 8/8 p.6) Most seriously, it has caused people who fall victim to the ToE propaganda and ignore all the evidence of a grand Creator, and therefore never come to know him. (John 17:3)
A person who hides medicine that would save dying people would be labeled a criminal, and rightly so. The ToE hides the truth from people who desperately need to know it. (John 8:32) Rather than unquestioningly accept what others assert to be the truth, it is vital each person make their own search for the real facts. (Psalms 10:4) As Molder's sign said "The Truth is Out There".

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[TJ73]

I have to accept evolution as far as what is observable. We can see adaptations in the living world all the time. And we now know they can occur in a much shorter time then we originally thought. I see the gap closing. I hate to use this analogy but... Just like a game programmer sets up a construct, so Has God. So complex that it not only includes the physical world but encompasses individual behavior, group behavior life and death. Not provable by our current methods and limited senses, but then what value would there be in faith if it were to be obvious. What good is our acceptance of God if he tapped us all on the shoulder and said "boo"! Freewill goes out the door cause you would darn well know where you stood and your choice would be overwhelmingly influenced.

 

[McBell]

What good is our acceptance of God if he tapped us all on the shoulder and said "boo"! Freewill goes out the door cause you would darn well know where you stood and your choice would be overwhelmingly influenced.

So knowing that God exists takes away freewill?
Do you know if god exists?
I most certainly hope not.
Because your argument above just claimed that knowing god exists is a bad thing.
Now if you do not know if god exists, how can you honestly claim that he does?

 

[McBell]

As Molder's sign said "The Truth is Out There".

Yes it is.
The problem is that you refuse to see it.

 

[TJ73]

So knowing that God exists takes away freewill?
Do you know if god exists?
I most certainly hope not.
Because your argument above just claimed that knowing god exists is a bad thing.
Now if you do not know if god exists, how can you honestly claim that he does?

What I'm saying is there is a difference in substantiated, unequivocal, indisputable evidence and faith. So I mean if as a species we all had direct, physical contact with our Creator and we were told exactly what is expected of us our actions would be governed by our absolute knowledge of the consequences.
But in the context of faith we do because we believe and accept that God has set a paradigm for us. It changes the motivation. So like, if you clean you room, everyday, when your parents are away on vacation, it is different than doing it because your mom is hovering over your shoulder telling you to do it. Weak analogy, but I hope it makes my point.

 

[McBell]

What I'm saying is there is a difference in substantiated, unequivocal, indisputable evidence and faith. So I mean if as a species we all had direct, physical contact with our Creator and we were told exactly what is expected of us our actions would be governed by our absolute knowledge of the consequences.
But in the context of faith we do because we believe and accept that God has set a paradigm for us. It changes the motivation. So like, if you clean you room, everyday, when your parents are away on vacation, it is different than doing it because your mom is hovering over your shoulder telling you to do it. Weak analogy, but I hope it makes my point.

You have not met my children...

Do you honestly think that if god was to prove he exists that there would be no one who would still reject him?
Or are you saying that if god was to prove he exists that no one would be able to reject him?

 

[TJ73]

You have not met my children...

Do you honestly think that if god was to prove he exists that there would be no one who would still reject him?
Or are you saying that if god was to prove he exists that no one would be able to reject him?

Oh I am confident there would be many that would reject Him. We are well suited to cutting our nose to spite our faces. People will often maintain a view even after it has been proven detrimental or false just because they can't let go of the paradigm they created.
I am not even saying they would not be able to resist, given Allah's inclination toward affording us freewill. But What I am saying is that the choice to believe and obey would be soured. Like getting someone to go out with you because they feel bad for you, not because they like you, or giving to charity through your taxes rather than because you wish to help. So when I come home and my 16 yo cleaned the house for me because she knows it is good and helpful it means a lot more to me than when she does it because I told her to or else.
and PS, I used the clean your room thing cause it's a fantasy of mine,lol.

 

[ellenjanuary]

I may not be so crazy after all... the LC may be loose in the conceptual fishbowl. As It has about three orders of magnitude on them kippers in there, common conception just may become clearer. Man, that would be a picture worth seeing; one of these IDiots at prayer, and the LC shows up. Atheism may be on the rise.

 

[Danmac]

Merge evolution & religion?
Hmmmm.....Yes! But there's some asymmetry.
Religion can incorporate evolution.
But evolution cannot incorporate religion because faith based matters are untestable.

Faith is very testable.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Faith is very testable.

That's right! Into the pit! Those lions spit you out, you alright!

 

[CyraEm]

Personally, what makes the most sense for me is the idea that evolution is God's design. A good analogy is that God built a machine, with all these rules and regulations, and turned it on, and then planets popped out, and plant life, and animals, and civilizations. And he's still very much in control, and it's his design, but it did unfold on it's own. There were a million ways it could have turned out, and this is just what happened.

 

[Danmac]

That's right! Into the pit! Those lions spit you out, you alright!

Except for the scratches

 

[tumbleweed41]

Personally, what makes the most sense for me is the idea that evolution is God's design. A good analogy is that God built a machine, with all these rules and regulations, and turned it on, and then planets popped out, and plant life, and animals, and civilizations. And he's still very much in control, and it's his design, but it did unfold on it's own. There were a million ways it could have turned out, and this is just what happened.

Take away the "very much in control" part and we could make you a Deist,

 

[RedOne77]

Take away the "very much in control" part and we could make you a Deist,

Ah, but with it he could be a good pantheist. Let the religious war begin! :fight:

 

[ellenjanuary]

I believe in evolution. I also believe it is possible that god kicked it off with a fistful of numbers (SAP), but god is a conclusion rather than an observation. That is how the words "evolutionary deism" filled in my blank for religion. Which means no.

 

[Autodidact]

Yes, I believe science has done much to increase mans knowledge of the universe.
I don't believe the ToE is science.

Well you're wrong. ToE is the best available theory that explains the diversity of species on earth. It is well-supported by the evidence, and that is why all of modern Biology is based on it.

It is conjecture and not supported by the scientific facts available. Further, supporters of this theory engage in very unscientific mental bullying to induce others to accept the Kool-aid without question. These misled people do not hear of the weaknesses and just plain guesswork in this theory presented as unassailable "fact". That the earth is a sphere is a fact, not a theory.

Actually, no. The earth is a slightly obloid nearly spherical object. At least, that's what the scientific evidence seems to indicate.

The notion the brilliant engineering evident in all created things came about by chance is nothing but unsubstantiated fallacy, not fact.

Actually, it's sheer nonsense, and has nothing to do with the Theory of Evolution.

So what you're saying is that you have no idea what the Theory of Evolution (ToE) says, but you're sure it's wrong.

If you want to disprove it, the first thing you need to do is learn what it actually says. Are you interested in learning?

 

[Autodidact]

Faith is very testable.

How would you test something you believe on faith?

 

[Danmac]

How would you test something you believe on faith?

Faith can mostly be tested during times of fear and crisis. The same way a person trusts that a parachute will open when they jump from a plane. That person would have to ignore the fear of death by trusting that the parachute would save his or her life. Now I know as parachutists become accustomed to jumping that the fear is replaced with fun, but the first time I jumped from a plane I was terrified. I had to place a great amount of faith in the parachute before i would jump.

 

[ellenjanuary]

Faith can mostly be tested during times of fear and crisis. The same way a person trusts that a parachute will open when they jump from a plane. That person would have to ignore the fear of death by trusting that the parachute would save his or her life. Now I know as parachutists become accustomed to jumping that the fear is replaced with fun, but the first time I jumped from a plane I was terrified. I had to place a great amount of faith in the parachute before i would jump.

Well, there's a switcheroo... As a Christian, isn't "faith in the parachute" idolatry?

 

[RedOne77]

Well, there's a switcheroo... As a Christian, isn't "faith in the parachute" idolatry?

No, actually. It isn't a sin to have faith/trust in something else. It's only when that faith is placed above God is it a problem. The way Danmac uses the word faith is more of a literary device than a proclamation of faith in the biblical sense.