Catholicism & Christianity

[Mister Emu]

The King James Version refers to a Bible that the Vatican used in official documents, having strangled and burned the translator of 85%* of it.

For the second time. The King James Version refers to a Bible that was translated by 47 people in three different groups. No one person translated 85% of it.

Name an official document that used the KJV.

Because it's called 'Deuterocanon', for one thing. Something is either God's Word— or it's the devil's.

God's inspiration is limited to the canon? Since neither of our words are in the canon are we both speaking the devil's?

So what was the sin of those who deserved to die?

Everyone deserves to die. "The wages of sin is death".

That said, I believe the Catholic Church was wrong to kill people because of difference in belief.

Who permitted it to fall?

The situation of the west could no longer support it. The fall of Rome led to a major decline in civilization in the West.

And in any case, the prevalent mode of transmission was oral, even so, and needed few literates. People were able to memorise prodigious amounts, and much more readily than most are today.

Rome was a literate society. It was not, so far as I know and I am open to being shown wrong, the oral culture that the Jewish culture was.

What christian answered like this?

That did not answer the question. I know of no Christian who would agree with the statement that Christianity is a democracy. Do you believe it is?

 

[Villager]

For the second time. The King James Version refers to a Bible that was translated

Not so. This 'Bible' was made by selecting from existing translations, with only occasional original renderings (probably made mostly by one man). An estimated 85% of their choices were those of Tyndale. Tyndale, one of the many men burned by Catholics, even for possession of Bibles. There would have been many more of them, but for the frustration of inability to get at the 'heretics'.

by 47 people

Every one of whom had been pronounced anathema and heretical by the Vatican.

So this makes no real difference.

God's inspiration is limited to the canon?

Paul reckoned to have passed on 'the whole will of God'. Yet Catholics, who have murdered Christians, think fit to disagree. Maybe there's correlation somewhere.

Everyone deserves to die. "The wages of sin is death".

But, if you'll permit a mere Protestant pov, that death is not the same death as arrives by physical burning.

That said, I believe the Catholic Church was wrong to kill people because of difference in belief.

We must be grateful that the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church is now content with mere paederast farming, then.

The situation of the west could no longer support it. The fall of Rome led to a major decline in civilization in the West.

It eventually led to a culture in which colossal, glittering, even grandiose stone edifices stood surrounded by the most appalling hovels. There was money available, and a great deal of it.

The fall of Rome led to considerable increases in freedom, and in free time, for many millions of previously despairing people. But there was more greedy, murderous human filth to replace the Roman sort, to bring a speedy end to freedom. The Bible was not yet available to give the impetus for democracy.

Oral culture would have cost a real church very little. It would have been oppportunity, not limitation, for God's people. For the Vatican, tool of those greedy and murderous, the end of Rome's tyranny meant a new challenge from those who fed them, and a new use for the poisonous myth of 'Vicar of Christ'.

I know of no Christian who would agree with the statement that Christianity is a democracy.

"I learned much from the Order of the Jesuits. Until now, there has never been anything more grandiose, on the earth, than the hierarchical organization of the Catholic Church."

Can someone remind me who said that?

 

[Kathryn]

Can you give an example? I'd like to know if I am coming across as making personal attacks. Perhaps you are projecting?

Doppelganger, Villager rarely directly answers a direct question.

 

[doppelganger]

Doppelganger, Villager rarely directly answers a direct question.

I'm noticing that.

 

[krsnaraja]

Doppelganger, Villager rarely directly answers a direct question.

That`s my point, you get nothing out of religious debates.

 

[Renji]

That`s my point, you get nothing out of religious debates.

Then what's the point of this thread? Isn't it placed on the General Religious Debates? That's ironic dude.

 

[Mister Emu]

Not so. This 'Bible' was made by selecting from existing translations, with only occasional original renderings (probably made mostly by one man).

No, it was translated from the Hebrew and Greek in consultation with existing versions. How do you justify the last statement that it was one man translating. Tyndale's version was very influential, but he did not translate the KJV, he translated the Tyndale version.

Tyndale, one of the many men burned by Catholics, even for possession of Bibles.

I'd like support for this too. People may have died for possession of certain banned versions, but not for simple possession of the Bible in general.

Paul reckoned to have passed on 'the whole will of God'. Yet Catholics, who have murdered Christians, think fit to disagree. Maybe there's correlation somewhere.

You didn't answer the question. Catholics do not disagree. Paul never said that he passed the whole of the will of God on in textual format. He did however say that the Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth.

Oh and Protestants murdered plenty of Catholic Christians too.

But, if you'll permit a mere Protestant pov, that death is not the same death as arrives by physical burning.

It is both physical and spiritual.

We must be grateful that the One, Holy, Catholic, Apostolic Church is now content with mere paederast farming, then.

Unfortunately, the evil of pedophilia is not solely within the Catholic Church.

It eventually led to a culture in which colossal, glittering, even grandiose stone edifices stood surrounded by the most appalling hovels.

Eventually.

The fall of Rome led to considerable increases in freedom, and in free time, for many millions of previously despairing people. But there was more greedy, murderous human filth to replace the Roman sort, to bring a speedy end to freedom.

The freedom to pillage, murder, and rape. The end of western Rome was not a good thing for the West.

Oral culture would have cost a real church very little.

I agree. Being in the oral Jewish culture didn't harm the early Church at all. But Rome wasn't an oral culture, it was a literate one.

Can someone remind me who said that?

You didn't answer the question. But, I'll answer you in the hopes you will finally answer me. Hitler said it.

Do you believe Christianity is democratic?

 

[Renji]

I'm afraid Mister Emu that you'll be having a hard time getting a direct answer from Villager no matter how you reiterate your points on him. See that he even failed to answer my posts.

 

[krsnaraja]

Well, the only thing nice with religious debates is when the opposition has finally surrendered.

 

[Villager]

No, it was translated from the Hebrew and Greek in consultation with existing versions.

With the emphasis on consultation. The single remaining record of the committees indicates acceptance of that emphasis, and there is very little record of the competence in Gk and Heb of most of the 'translators' of this book; though there is evidence of their political allegiance. These men were commanded to keep to the rendering of the Bishops' Bible as much as possible- which is hardly an objective approach. Even today, the following of this book seems to be politically inspired, and the improper, long used appellation of 'Authorised' marked a political preference, too.

How do you justify the last statement that it was one man translating.

Why not use the handy quote facility?

Tyndale's version was very influential

Indeed, he certainly was. And the RCC murdered him.

People may have died for possession of certain banned versions

Banned? Banned by whom?

Catholics do not disagree.

So what is the 'Vicar of Christ' idea for?

Paul never said that he passed the whole of the will of God on in textual format.

So the Catholic God is one easily thwarted from his eternal purpose on a technicality.

He did however say that the Church is the pillar and ground of the Truth.

True, true. But he also warned that 'grievous wolves' would soon arise, even among church bishops.

Oh and Protestants murdered plenty of Catholic Christians too.

So does that make murder by Catholics ok?

It is both physical and spiritual.

So physical death automatically leads to spiritual death?

Unfortunately, the evil of pedophilia is not solely within the Catholic Church.

Paederasty is within it, and has been cultured therein. Other organisations that do so are closed down on the spot.

Eventually.

When there was opportunity– and nothing and no-one else to blame.

The freedom to pillage, murder, and rape.

Only for 'barbarians'. Who arguably were more civilised than 'the Church'.

But Rome wasn't an oral culture, it was a literate one.

So the silent proles wrote to each other. And turned a deaf ear to those famed orators.

Hitler said it.

Are Catholics proud of this commendation?

 

[krsnaraja]

Villager is still at it? Hey, where`s the re-inforcement? Lawrence? Kathryn? Where are you guys? Don`t tell me you are hiding.

 

[Father Heathen]

I don`t like to compete with this thread but there should be a distinction when one says Christians. It could refer to me or my family who are devout Catholics. Catholicism is centered on Christ & around Christ are his devotees. If this title say Christianity must change or die I say Protestants should return to Catholicism or else they die.

http://www.religiousforums.com/foru...ates/122952-christianity-must-change-die.html

This thread is instigating a war between Catholics & Protestants.

What if someone wishes to follow Christ and his teachings yet doesn't see a use for the self-appointed middlemen in silly hats?

 

[krsnaraja]

What if someone wishes to follow Christ and his teachings yet doesn't see a use for the self-appointed middlemen in silly hats?

What was the religion of your parents before & after you were born. If they were Catholics, you should be a Catholic, too. That way, you are following God`s ten commandments by honoring your father & mother for chosing Catholicism instead of Protestantism.

 

[Father Heathen]

What was the religion of your parents before & after you were born. If they were Catholics, you should be a Catholic, too. That way, you are following God`s ten commandments by honoring your father & mother for chosing Catholicism instead of Protestantism.

I think it's better as an independent individual to make rational decisions for oneself rather than to mindlessly adhere to such arbitrary things. God wouldn't have given us the ability to reason had he not intended us to use it - why squander his gift?

 

[krsnaraja]

I think it's better as an independent individual to make rational decisions for oneself rather than to mindlessly adhere to such arbitrary things. God wouldn't have given us the ability to reason had he not intended us to use it - why squander his gift?

What do you mean by mindlessly? Do you mean my parents were mindless for choosing Catholicism as their religion? That I`m mindless for choosing Catholicism as my religion? & my children were mindless for choosing Catholicism as their religion? Do you mean all Catholics were mindless for choosing Catholicim as their religion? You are fomenting here a religious war, man.

 

[Father Heathen]

What do you mean by mindlessly? Do you mean my parents were mindless for choosing Catholicism as their religion? That I`m mindless for choosing Catholicism as my religion? & my children were mindless for choosing Catholicism as their religion? Do you mean all Catholics were mindless for choosing Catholicim as their religion? You are fomenting here a religious war, man.

I'm saying belief, practice and devotion are something that should involve a lot of thought and reflection. Such a commitment should be a sincere choice. To adhere to something merely because your parents have is a rather poor reason to do so, especially if it doesn't ring true to your heart and mind.

 

[krsnaraja]

I'm saying belief, practice and devotion are something that should involve a lot of thought and reflection. Such a commitment should be a sincere choice. To adhere to something merely because your parents have is a rather poor reason to do so, especially if it doesn't ring true to your heart and mind.

It does ring true in my heart why I choose to stay a Catholic. Protestants in our place tell their recruits to cut the heads off our beloved Sr Santo Nino de Cebu icons if they wished to join them. Is that reasonably sound to you? Just because the Sr Santo Nino de Cebu is not found in the Bible?

 

[Father Heathen]

It does ring true in my heart why I choose to stay a Catholic. Protestants in our place tell their recruits to cut the heads off our beloved Sr Santo Nino de Cebu icons if they wished to join them. Is that reasonably sound to you? Just because the Sr Santo Nino de Cebu is not found in the Bible?

If they're destroying other people's property then no.

 

[krsnaraja]

It was the Sr Santo Nino de Cebu who was responsible for the Christianization of the Philippines. It was the Sr Santo Nino de Cebu that inspired the Catholic Church to evangelize Catholicism to every Great Soul believer in the world. It will just be a matter of time Hindus in India will be converted to Catholicism.

[youtube]O2fSjez37QI[/youtube]
Radio Maria India.mp4 - YouTube

 

[Father Heathen]

It was the Sr Santo Nino that was responsible for the Christianization of the Philippines. It was the Sr Santo Nino de cebu that inspired the Catholic Church to evangelize Catholicism to every Great Soul believer in the world. It will just be a matter of time, that Hindus in India will be converted to Catholicism.

[youtube]O2fSjez37QI[/youtube]
Radio Maria India.mp4 - YouTube

So in other words the destruction of indigenous cultures.