Cats....All About Cats

[Trailblazer]

No wonder I like cats so much!

I love all animals, but cats have always had a special place in my heart. I love their independence and tendency to play hard-to-get. It makes their cuddles that much more rewarding.

You are a man after my own heart.

There is nothing I love more than my cats, NOTHING.
God, step aside. but that is another long story....

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Including animals? Have you seen them, however you see?
If animals continue to exist "in spirit" after they die, I consider it negligence on the part of scripture writers to omit something that important. Moreover, I hold God responsible for that omission.

What do you mean "All creatures are souls because the "god of this world", the Creator God is only "Soul".???"
What do you mean "There is NO "Spirit" in Him." ???

What do you mean ""Spirit" is what separates humans from "animals" ( creatures )." ???

I agree that spirit is uncreated and had no beginning.
Are you saying you believe that humans are uncreated and never had a beginning?

I believe humans had a beginning when we were conceived -- that our soul came into being at the moment of conception. I believe that animals had a beginning when they were born and received an animal spirit, which is different from a soul. It has never been revealed in scripture if animal spirits continue to exist after their bodies die. I think they do but I consider that negligent on the part of scripture writers to omit something that important.

I believe that by contrast to ordinary humans, the souls of the Universal Manifestations of God (e.g. Jesus, Baha'u'llah) had no beginning -- they have always existed in the spiritual world and their souls were sent to this world where they were united with their bodies. Then, when they died physically, their souls returned to the spiritual world where they will live forever.

To me that says that we got a soul when we became a living creature, which was at the moment of conception, before we started breathing.

A copy of what?

You might like this explanation of what happens when our physical body dies.

421. When the body is no longer able to perform the bodily functions in the natural world that correspond to the spirit’s thoughts and affections, which the spirit has from the spiritual world, man is said to die. This takes place when the respiration of the lungs and the beatings of the heart cease. But the man does not die; he is merely separated from the bodily part that was of use to him in the world, while the man himself continues to live. It is said that the man himself continues to live since man is not a man because of his body but because of his spirit, for it is the spirit that thinks in man, and thought with affection is what constitutes man. Evidently, then, the death of man is merely his passing from one world into another. And this is why in the Word in its internal sense “death” signifies resurrection and continuation of life. Heaven and Hell, p. 351

I suggest you start a new thread if we are going to continue discussing the soul and spirit, since we have veered way off the original purpose of the OP.

I plan to open some threads in the future to help explain some of this.

ANY entity that is "created", is a "creature" (animal)

The "God" that "created" "humans" in Genesis is NOT the "Father" ( the True God ).
He just "molded" a copy of the True Human ( "MAN").

The True Human is in another realm of Being far, far, "above" this physical realm.
You can call it "heaven" or whatever you like. Gnostics know it as the "Pleroma" (The Fullness),
as compared to this physical realm and the "Kenoma" (emptiness).


"MAN" is a Divine Race Of Being, we have always been, we are eternal "Spirit",
in short.....WE ARE "GOD". And few come to "realize" their "inheritance" (it takes many lifetimes)
because of all the lies......that's all you will get from the "god of this world" ( the "father" of lies )

The word "Man" means "God", and I will be opening threads soon to show this.

 

[Trailblazer]

"MAN" is a Divine Race Of Being, we have always been, we are eternal "Spirit",
in short.....WE ARE "GOD". And few come to "realize" their "inheritance" (it takes many lifetimes)
because of all the lies......that's all you will get from the "god of this world" ( the "father" of lies )

The word "Man" means "God", and I will be opening threads soon to show this.

First, I want to know where your beliefs come from. Is there anything in the Bible that supports your beliefs?

Second, I do not agree that man is God, I believe that man is separate from His Creation although humans can connect to God in prayer and meditation.

Here is a summary of what I believe in that regard:

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 166

I look forward to your new threads on this topic.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

First, I want to know where your beliefs come from. Is there anything in the Bible that supports your beliefs?

Second, I do not agree that man is God, I believe that man is separate from His Creation although humans can connect to God in prayer and meditation.

Here is a summary of what I believe in that regard:

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 166

I look forward to your new threads on this topic.

I am a "gnostic". ( the "knowers" )….we have always been, since we are descended from Seth ( son of Adam ).
Jesus (the man) was gnostic, as were ALL the apostles too.

EVERYTHING in the Bible supports my beliefs, when understood properly (in truth).
But, just as Christ (Jesus) would only speak in "parables" to hide the true meaning of His words
from those not meant to "hear" (understand)….

so is the Bible written in "code" ( allegory ), and can only be understood truthfully by those that are gnostic,
since it was written by gnostics.

For example , people can read this verse and never really "KNOW" what it means unless they are "knowers" (gnostic).
Jesus quotes from the Old Testament ( Psalm 78:2 ), this verse in the New Testament....
"I will open my mouth in parables, I will speak of THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD"
(Mathew 13:35)

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

First, I want to know where your beliefs come from. Is there anything in the Bible that supports your beliefs?

Second, I do not agree that man is God, I believe that man is separate from His Creation although humans can connect to God in prayer and meditation.

Here is a summary of what I believe in that regard:

“Regard thou the one true God as One Who is apart from, and immeasurably exalted above, all created things. The whole universe reflecteth His glory, while He is Himself independent of, and transcendeth His creatures. This is the true meaning of Divine unity. He Who is the Eternal Truth is the one Power Who exerciseth undisputed sovereignty over the world of being, Whose image is reflected in the mirror of the entire creation. All existence is dependent upon Him, and from Him is derived the source of the sustenance of all things. This is what is meant by Divine unity; this is its fundamental principle.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 166

I look forward to your new threads on this topic.

Your summary is not that far off.

However , in the truest since, the "Father" is above and beyond anything that can be called "God",
He is unfathomable to ANY, completely and totally unfathomable to ALL.

In fact, it is this UNKNOWABLESNESS that got us into this mess here ( on earth ) in the first place.
But we have to use some frame of reference when speaking and trying to communicate Him.

And that's why we have the "Son" (Child)…..the "visible image" of the Invisible, Unsearchable, Unknowable One .
And that "child" is ultimately ALL of us.

"And the Father who sent me has Himself testified (born witness) of me. You have NEVER heard His voice or SEEN his form " (John 5:37)

 

[Left Coast]

How did a cat thread become a debate about the nature of God and Scriptures?

 

[Trailblazer]

I am a "gnostic". ( the "knowers" )….we have always been, since we are descended from Seth ( son of Adam ).
Jesus (the man) was gnostic, as were ALL the apostles too.

EVERYTHING in the Bible supports my beliefs, when understood properly (in truth).
But, just as Christ (Jesus) would only speak in "parables" to hide the true meaning of His words
from those not meant to "hear" (understand)….

so is the Bible written in "code" ( allegory ), and can only be understood truthfully by those that are gnostic,
since it was written by gnostics.

For example , people can read this verse and never really "KNOW" what it means unless they are "knowers" (gnostic).
Jesus quotes from the Old Testament ( Psalm 78:2 ), this verse in the New Testament....
"I will open my mouth in parables, I will speak of THINGS HIDDEN SINCE THE CREATION OF THE WORLD"
(Mathew 13:35)

Okay fair enough. That supports what I believe about how only the early Christians knew their ..... well, hopefully you know what I am getting at, so that particular a figure of speech is not needed to make my point.

According to my beliefs, Christianity, with its man-made doctrines and dogmas, is not the religion of Jesus. It strayed far from the original teachings of Jesus and it became the new religion of Paul. Jesus never claimed religious worship for Himself and was not worshiped in the original community. By making Jesus into the risen Christ, Paul transformed the ‘Faith of Jesus’ into ‘Faith in Jesus.’ The centerpiece of Christian doctrine was that of Redemption, something of which Jesus himself knew nothing. This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity, that Paul with his Gospel became the core of Christian dogma formation, and conquered the world, while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy.

 

[Revoltingest]

How did a cat thread become a debate about the nature of God and Scriptures?

This is RF.
We're just lucky it hasn't become about you-know-who.

 

[Trailblazer]

Your summary is not that far off.

However , in the truest since, the "Father" is above and beyond anything that can be called "God",
He is unfathomable to ANY, completely and totally unfathomable to ALL.

In fact, it is this UNKNOWABLESNESS that got us into this mess here ( on earth ) in the first place.
But we have to use some frame of reference when speaking and trying to communicate Him.

And that's why we have the "Son" (Child)…..the "visible image" of the Invisible, Unsearchable, Unknowable One .
And that "child" is ultimately ALL of us.

"And the Father who sent me has Himself testified (born witness) of me. You have NEVER heard His voice or SEEN his form " (John 5:37)

If you mean we can be LIKE the child (Jesus) I agree with you, but I do not believe we can BE the child because we cannot BE a Jesus Christ. We can only try to emulate Him.

I agree with you about the unknowableness of God because that is a core teaching of the Baha'i Faith.

“Wert thou to ponder in thine heart, from now until the end that hath no end, and with all the concentrated intelligence and understanding which the greatest minds have attained in the past or will attain in the future, this divinely ordained and subtle Reality, this sign of the revelation of the All-Abiding, All-Glorious God, thou wilt fail to comprehend its mystery or to appraise its virtue. Having recognized thy powerlessness to attain to an adequate understanding of that Reality which abideth within thee, thou wilt readily admit the futility of such efforts as may be attempted by thee, or by any of the created things, to fathom the mystery of the Living God, the Day Star of unfading glory, the Ancient of everlasting days. This confession of helplessness which mature contemplation must eventually impel every mind to make is in itself the acme of human understanding, and marketh the culmination of man’s development.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 165-166

How do you think that the unknowableness of God got us into this mess here ( on earth ) in the first place?

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

Okay fair enough. That supports what I believe about how only the early Christians knew their ..... well, hopefully you know what I am getting at, so that particular a figure of speech is not needed to make my point.

According to my beliefs, Christianity, with its man-made doctrines and dogmas, is not the religion of Jesus. It strayed far from the original teachings of Jesus and it became the new religion of Paul. Jesus never claimed religious worship for Himself and was not worshiped in the original community. By making Jesus into the risen Christ, Paul transformed the ‘Faith of Jesus’ into ‘Faith in Jesus.’ The centerpiece of Christian doctrine was that of Redemption, something of which Jesus himself knew nothing. This was the ‘Fall’ of Christianity, that Paul with his Gospel became the core of Christian dogma formation, and conquered the world, while the historic basis of Christianity was declared a heresy.

No, Paul was gnostic as well, and "honored" among them.
And, I'm not sure you know what "resurrection" is...

but, I can tell you that, it happens BEFORE we die.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

If you mean we can be LIKE the child (Jesus) I agree with you, but I do not believe we can BE the child because we cannot BE a Jesus Christ. We can only try to emulate Him.

I agree with you about the unknowableness of God because that is a core teaching of the Baha'i Faith.

“Wert thou to ponder in thine heart, from now until the end that hath no end, and with all the concentrated intelligence and understanding which the greatest minds have attained in the past or will attain in the future, this divinely ordained and subtle Reality, this sign of the revelation of the All-Abiding, All-Glorious God, thou wilt fail to comprehend its mystery or to appraise its virtue. Having recognized thy powerlessness to attain to an adequate understanding of that Reality which abideth within thee, thou wilt readily admit the futility of such efforts as may be attempted by thee, or by any of the created things, to fathom the mystery of the Living God, the Day Star of unfading glory, the Ancient of everlasting days. This confession of helplessness which mature contemplation must eventually impel every mind to make is in itself the acme of human understanding, and marketh the culmination of man’s development.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 165-166

How do you think that the unknowableness of God got us into this mess here ( on earth ) in the first place?

I don't think you understand. The man Jesus was just a human being, like you and me.
He became the "Christ" at his baptism in the Jordan.

If "Christ" is not "IN" us, we are none of His.

" And you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. But if any man does not have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not His" ( Romans 8:9)

 

[Trailblazer]

No, Paul was gnostic as well, and "honored" among them.

If he was, he certainly veered off track....

And, I'm not sure you know what "resurrection" is...

but, I can tell you that, it happens BEFORE we die.

I know what resurrection means in my religion, and I believe it happens before we die.

“According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.” Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 222​

Now give me what you have, don't keep me in suspense.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

If he was, he certainly veered off track....

I know what resurrection means in my religion, and I believe it happens before we die.

“According to the Bahá’í teaching the Resurrection has nothing to do with the gross physical body. That body, once dead, is done with. It becomes decomposed and its atoms will never be recomposed into the same body.

Resurrection is the birth of the individual to spiritual life, through the gift of the Holy Spirit bestowed through the Manifestation of God. The grave from which he arises is the grave of ignorance and negligence of God. The sleep from which he awakens is the dormant spiritual condition in which many await the dawn of the Day of God. This dawn illumines all who have lived on the face of the earth, whether they are in the body or out of the body, but those who are spiritually blind cannot perceive it. The Day of Resurrection is not a day of twenty-four hours, but an era which has now begun and will last as long as the present world cycle continues. It will continue when all traces of the present civilization will have been wiped off the surface of the globe.” Bahá’u’lláh and the New Era, p. 222​

Now give me what you have, don't keep me in suspense.

" Jesus said, " Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes
troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the ALL " ( Gospel of Thomas )

 

[Trailblazer]

I don't think you understand. The man Jesus was just a human being, like you and me.
He became the "Christ" at his baptism in the Jordan.

According to my beliefs. Jesus had a preexistent soul, so He was never like the rest of us, even before He was born into this world:

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

I believe that Jesus was always different than us in kind, and then later in life the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a Dove.

If "Christ" is not "IN" us, we are none of His.

" And you are not in the flesh, but in the Spirit, if indeed the SPIRIT OF GOD dwells in you. But if any man does not have the SPIRIT OF CHRIST, he is not His" ( Romans 8:9)

What do you mean by IN us? Do you mean in our body?

 

[Trailblazer]

" Jesus said, " Let him who seeks continue seeking until he finds. When he finds, he will become troubled. When he becomes troubled, he will be astonished, and he will rule over the ALL " ( Gospel of Thomas )

That verse could mean any number of things to any number of people....
I am not going to try to figure out what it means to you.

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

According to my beliefs. Jesus had a preexistent soul, so He was never like the rest of us, even before He was born into this world:

(96) PRE-EXISTENCE - of Prophets
The Prophets, unlike us, are pre-existent. The soul of Christ existed in the spiritual world before His birth in this world. We cannot imagine what that world is like, so words are inadequate to picture His state of being.
(Shoghi Effendi: High Endeavors, Page: 71)

I believe that Jesus was always different than us in kind, and then later in life the Holy Spirit descended upon Him like a Dove.

What do you mean by IN us? Do you mean in our body?

We all live many lifetimes.
Reincarnation was understood by the early church.

And yes, the exact same Spirit ( Christ ) that was in the man Jesus over 2000 years ago,
is literally the exact same Spirit that is in me today.

I mean, what do you think a "Christian" really is ? One just in name only ?

"Before long the world will not see me anymore, but you will see me.
Because I live, you also will live.
On that day you will realize that I am in my Father, and you are in me,
and I am in you " (John 14:19-20)

 

[WhyIsThatSo]

That verse could mean any number of things to any number of people....
I am not going to try to figure out what it means to you.

So, what did it mean to Jesus ?

 

[columbus]

Dog: "He feeds me and keeps me warm and cleans up after me.
He must be God!"


Cat: "He feeds me and keeps me warm and cleans up after me.
I must be God!"
Tom

 

[columbus]

So, what did it mean to Jesus ?

Given the poor provenance of any gospels, much less extra-canonical gospels, it's impossible to tell whether Jesus ever even knew that someone would attribute it much less what it meant to Him.
Tom

 

[Wu Wei]