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Challenge for those that believe in billions of years for the age of things. Give anything that is more than 6000 years old. NO ASSUMPTIONS ALLOWED.

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Well, you spelled everything correctly....
I use an altered Pascal's Wager for that belief. He was onto something but he forgot that there are many Gods. The FSM (Ramen) appears to be the most rational choice. Not only does he have a much better creation myth than all of the other Gods, but Quob manages to avoid most of the contradictions of others, pus has the best heaven of all of the Gods. So if you are going to pick a God to believe in, shop around. nothing gets more boring than singings songs of praise to a being for not evilly torturing you for all eternity. Quob (Ramen) is much more chill about the whole belief thing. And if person screws up even his hell is probably better than other God's heavens.
 

McBell

Unbound
I use an altered Pascal's Wager for that belief. He was onto something but he forgot that there are many Gods. The FSM (Ramen) appears to be the most rational choice. Not only does he have a much better creation myth than all of the other Gods, but Quob manages to avoid most of the contradictions of others, pus has the best heaven of all of the Gods. So if you are going to pick a God to believe in, shop around. nothing gets more boring than singings songs of praise to a being for not evilly torturing you for all eternity. Quob (Ramen) is much more chill about the whole belief thing. And if person screws up even his hell is probably better than other God's heavens.
Why would I bother a particular God when I can just create one to my liking?
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
If evolution is gradual, there should be millions of chains of missing links. All are missing. Why? They should be finding missing links every day. Why not?

There should also be partially developed organs, etc. in all individual creatures right now and that have ever lived. There are not why?

The odds against these 2 things are mind boggling. Just for the missing links, I estimate odds against of about 10^10 million to 1. The odds against the missing partially developed organs and functions is way vaster than that. I estimate odds against of about 10^10 billion billion billion to 1.

Of course, the odds against all the ordered sequences in all the DNA, RNA, and proteins in all creatures that ever lived is more than 10^43 to 1.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
If evolution is gradual, there should be millions of chains of missing links. All are missing. Why? They should be finding missing links every day. Why not?

There should also be partially developed organs, etc. in all individual creatures right now and that have ever lived. There are not why?

The odds against these 2 things are mind boggling. Just for the missing links, I estimate odds against of about 10^10 million to 1. The odds against the missing partially developed organs and functions is way vaster than that. I estimate odds against of about 10^10 billion billion billion to 1.

Of course, the odds against all the ordered sequences in all the DNA, RNA, and proteins in all creatures that ever lived is more than 10^43 to 1.
Why do you keep claiming this? You do not seem to have any idea how rare fossilization of terrestrial animals is.

And I already showed you that "missing links' are found every day. but then perhaps you meant something else. I thought that you could not be so utterly ignorant to think that they should be finding new recent human ancestor fossils every day, but perhaps I under estimated how little that you know about this topic.

And remember, you have demonstrated to everyone else here that math is not something that you can do. When you have made claims that require you to be able to support your claims mathematically you have never been able to support those claims.

Your poor arguments are not even being echoed by other creationists. That should tell you how bad that they are.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
Why do you keep claiming this? You do not seem to have any idea how rare fossilization of terrestrial animals is.

And I already showed you that "missing links' are found every day. but then perhaps you meant something else. I thought that you could not be so utterly ignorant to think that they should be finding new recent human ancestor fossils every day, but perhaps I under estimated how little that you know about this topic.

And remember, you have demonstrated to everyone else here that math is not something that you can do. When you have made claims that require you to be able to support your claims mathematically you have never been able to support those claims.

Your poor arguments are not even being echoed by other creationists. That should tell you how bad that they are.
They have not found the missing links to anything. What a bunch of crap.

All the millions of chains of missing links are missing.

Here are great predictions from the Bible with exact timing made 2000 years ago. You are certainly a fulfillment of these and very many times.

Evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse. 2 Tim 3:13

Great delusion and deception in the last days. – 2 Thess 2
 

Monty

Active Member
They have not found the missing links to anything. What a bunch of crap.

All the millions of chains of missing links are missing.

Here are great predictions from the Bible with exact timing made 2000 years ago. You are certainly a fulfillment of these and very many times.

Evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse. 2 Tim 3:13

Great delusion and deception in the last days. – 2 Thess 2
So why do we share over 95% of our DNA with chimps, including the same dysfunctional gene for Vitamin C synthesis, given that other animal species have functional genes for Vitamin C synthesis?

And how does your hypothesis explain why are there about six biogeographical zones with their own unique range of plant and animal species. And why aren't echidnas and sloths and the different penguin species also found in other biogeographical zones?
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
They have not found the missing links to anything. What a bunch of crap.

The proper term is "transitional fossils" and they have found millions of them.
All the millions of chains of missing links are missing.
That is false and incorrect. Once again the correct terminology is transitional fossils.
Here are great predictions from the Bible with exact timing made 2000 years ago. You are certainly a fulfillment of these and very many times.

Evil men and seducers waxing worse and worse. 2 Tim 3:13

Where is the "exact timing"? I do not see a year, much less a month and a date. In fact as quoted that is not even a prophecy. Do you even know what a prophecy is?


Great delusion and deception in the last days. – 2 Thess 2
Well that is a fail because no one on the science side has been doing that. And again, there is no date there. So that is a double fail.

By the way, even the Bible tells you that you will not know until too late when the last days are here. It has very vague "signs". but those fail as prophecy because those signs have always been there. That is why every few years a well respected Christian leader goes off the deep end and predicts the end of the Earth.

Here is just a partial list, oh and guess what? All of those that predicted a date before today have failed:


And a longer one from the same source:

 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
So why do we share over 95% of our DNA with chimps, including the same dysfunctional gene for Vitamin C synthesis, given that other animal species have functional genes for Vitamin C synthesis?

And how does your hypothesis explain why are there about six biogeographical zones with their own unique range of plant and animal species. And why aren't echidnas and sloths and the different penguin species also found in other biogeographical zones?
First it may be a lot less since the supposed junk DNA may not be junk after all. So that is just a deception.
Second, 5% difference is 200 million base pairs so that is a lot. So using percent and not absolute number is another deception.
Third, even the 5% may be too low and it may be as high as 20%.
Fourth, similarity is better explained by an intelligent Creator. A Tesla is not descended from a model T. That is just another deception.
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
 

Monty

Active Member
First it may be a lot less since the supposed junk DNA may not be junk after all. So that is just a deception.
Second, 5% difference is 200 million base pairs so that is a lot. So using percent and not absolute number is another deception.
Third, even the 5% may be too low and it may be as high as 20%.
Fourth, similarity is better explained by an intelligent Creator. A Tesla is not descended from a model T. That is just another deception.
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
But why don't we have a functional gene for Vitamin C synthesis instead of a nonfunctional mutated one like chimpanzees.
And why aren't penguins and echidnas also native to the northern hemisphere?
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
But why don't we have a functional gene for Vitamin C synthesis instead of a nonfunctional mutated one like chimpanzees.
And why aren't penguins and echidnas also native to the northern hemisphere?
And how could a chimp have 48 chromosomes ve 46 for people.
Common Creator is the explanation not decent.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
That would appear to be true. That is unless we did not know that the number of chromosomes can change. Now what could explain that? Perhaps we started with 46 and the other great apes had one of their chromosomes split. But that seems rather unlikely since they would have had to have each had their own splits, Orangutans, Gorillas, and the combination of Chimps and Bonobos three different times, and they would have had to have been almost identical splits. That is highly unlikely. No. It would be much more reasonable for a pair of chromosomes to join.

So what would we see if we had one chromosome had joined? Would there be any evidence of that? Well yes, that was a very good question. There probably would be evidence of such a join. Somewhere within a section of DNA there is an area called the centromere. It is an area of constriction that is very important in reproduction:

"The centromere appears as a constricted region of a chromosome and plays a key role in helping the cell divide up its DNA during division (mitosis and meiosis). Specifically, it is the region where the cell’s spindle fibers attach. Following attachment of the spindle fibers to the centromere, the two identical sister chromatids that make up the replicated chromosome are pulled to opposite sides of the dividing cell, such that the two resulting daughter cells end up with identical DNA."


Also at the ends of the chromosome we would see telomeres. They too are important in reproduction:

"In almost all animals, from the simplest to the most complex, telomeres are required for cell division. With each cell replication, the telomeres get shorter and shorter until they're so short that your cells can no longer divide. When cells no longer divide, tissues age. However, telomeres can be rebuilt by an enzyme called telomerase to restore cell division."


So what should we see in the human genome if two chromosomes joined. We would see the remains of a centromere, in other words a structure that looked like a centromere, but was no longer used, and telomeres in the middle of the chromosome.

I wonder if any of our chromosomes have those structures:


"Human chromosome 2 was formed by the head-to-head fusion of two ancestral chromosomes that remained separate in other primates. Sequences that once resided near the ends of the ancestral chromosomes are now interstitially located in 2q13–2q14.1. Portions of these sequences had duplicated to other locations prior to the fusion. Here we present analyses of the genomic structure and evolutionary history of >600 kb surrounding the fusion site and closely related sequences on other human chromosomes. Sequence blocks that closely flank the inverted arrays of degenerate telomere repeats marking the fusion site are duplicated at many, primarily subtelomeric, locations. In addition, large portions of a 168-kb centromere-proximal block are duplicated at 9pter, 9p11.2, and 9q13, with 98%–99% average sequence identity. A 67-kb block on the distal side of the fusion site is highly homologous to sequences at 22qter. A third ∼100-kb segment is 96% identical to a region in 2q11.2. By integrating data on the extent and similarity of these paralogous blocks, including the presence of phylogenetically informative repetitive elements, with observations of their chromosomal distribution in nonhuman primates, we infer the order of the duplications that led to their current arrangement. Several of these duplicated blocks may be associated with breakpoints of inversions that occurred during primate evolution and of recurrent chromosome rearrangements in humans."

Whoa! That is long. And that is just the abstract. Here is the TLDR for you:

They found the telomeres (two sets of course one from each chromosome and the no longer functioning centromere in Human Chromosome Number 2.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
And how could a chimp have 48 chromosomes ve 46 for people.
Common Creator is the explanation not decent.
LOL, I just answered that for you.


It takes very little time to ask questions. The answer that I gave to you is simplified and even then it took a while to write.

It is extremely rude to ask a whole bunch of ignorant questions because even a quick thorough answer to only one of them takes a while to write.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
LOL, I just answered that for you.


It takes very little time to ask questions. The answer that I gave to you is simplified and even then it took a while to write.

It is extremely rude to ask a whole bunch of ignorant questions because even a quick thorough answer to only one of them takes a while to write.
It never happened. Just another lie you bought.

Just like you bought the 5% lie and the common characteristics prove descent.
Since an Intelligent Creator would use common design elements, that is the better explanation which you ASSUMED (no GOD assumption again).
You are as unscientific as could be.
Here more fake ancestors of mankind - Nebraska man, Peking man, Piltdown man, Java man. Java 2 man, Lucy and everyone that they have been deceived into believing.

Chimps and mankind are not related.
First it may be a lot less since the supposed junk DNA may not be junk after all. So that is just a deception.
Second, 5% difference is 200 million base pairs so that is a lot. So using percent and not absolute number is another deception.
Third, even the 5% may be too low and it may be as high as 20%.
Fourth, similarity is better explained by an intelligent Creator. A Tesla is not descended from a model T. That is just another deception.
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
 

Bthoth

Well-Known Member
Chimps and mankind are not related.
This came from a simple search:

Human and chimp DNA is so similar because the two species are so closely related. Humans, chimps and bonobos descended from a single ancestor species that lived six or seven million years ago. As humans and chimps gradually evolved from a common ancestor, their DNA, passed from generation to generation, changed too.


One of the most striking similarities between humans and chimpanzees is their metacognition, or their ability to reflect on one's own thoughts and mental processes.
 

Subduction Zone

Veteran Member
It never happened. Just another lie you bought.

Just like you bought the 5% lie and the common characteristics prove descent.
Since an Intelligent Creator would use common design elements, that is the better explanation which you ASSUMED (no GOD assumption again).
You are as unscientific as could be.
Here more fake ancestors of mankind - Nebraska man, Peking man, Piltdown man, Java man. Java 2 man, Lucy and everyone that they have been deceived into believing.

Chimps and mankind are not related.
First it may be a lot less since the supposed junk DNA may not be junk after all. So that is just a deception.
Second, 5% difference is 200 million base pairs so that is a lot. So using percent and not absolute number is another deception.
Third, even the 5% may be too low and it may be as high as 20%.
Fourth, similarity is better explained by an intelligent Creator. A Tesla is not descended from a model T. That is just another deception.
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
Of course you are related. At least that is what endless scientific evidence shows us and there is no scientific evidence to the contrary.

Did you not see the long post of mine above yours? The one that is very well supported by reliable sources? That is something that you have never done.

And remember, you have demonstrated that you cannot do math. Your mathematical responses are only ignorant denial.

Geneticists found the joined chromosome. I can show you some animals that you would call the "same kind" that have widely varying number of chromosomes. The difference between humans and other great apes (remember you are an ape too) is of only one pair of chromosomes.

Oh and when you claim that something is a "lie" you need to be able to support that claim. I f one does not then one looks as if one is only describing oneself.
 

SavedByTheLord

Well-Known Member
This came from a simple search:

Human and chimp DNA is so similar because the two species are so closely related. Humans, chimps and bonobos descended from a single ancestor species that lived six or seven million years ago. As humans and chimps gradually evolved from a common ancestor, their DNA, passed from generation to generation, changed too.


One of the most striking similarities between humans and chimpanzees is their metacognition, or their ability to reflect on one's own thoughts and mental processes.
That is nuts and you bought it. Satan is playing like a chump to believe your ancestors were primates, a small scurrying mammal, amphibians, a sea creature, many different one celled creature, chemicals, and nothing.

First it may be a lot less since the supposed junk DNA may not be junk after all. So that is just a deception.
Second, 5% difference is 200 million base pairs so that is a lot. So using percent and not absolute number is another deception.
Third, even the 5% may be too low and it may be as high as 20%.
Fourth, similarity is better explained by an intelligent Creator. A Tesla is not descended from a model T. That is just another deception.
Fifth, chimps have 48 chromosomes and mankind only 46. That is an inexplicable difference batten the 2 and proves it is common Creator not descent.
 
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