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Children in Heaven
- Thread starter Meow Mix
- Start date
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
The wisdom of agnosticism. Well done.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Well, mankind would not last very long if infanticide were practiced in order to insure all go to heaven. I believe that the Bible teaches that one has to reject Christ in order to be rejected from heaven. I believe that if man did not interfere with the truth that is God and then choose to believe something else the inevitable result would be eternal life. Each person chooses for themselves.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Certainly not a Scriptural position.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
"I don't like the rules so I'm going to take my bat and ball and go home!"
Does that matter?
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
The book of Romans in chapter 1 states that everything created knows it's creator and is without excuse. You are arguing a non-Scripural position. It's kind of like arguing that a play was an home run in a football game.
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sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
I can only vouch for me.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
The bible states that everyone will stand for judgement so you may wish to delve into the form of reincarnation that was believed in.
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Right, she's arguing a rational position based on logic. Then again, perhaps you're right - it's kind of pointless to attempt to apply logic to something inherently inconsistent and irrational.
sandy whitelinger
Veteran Member
Kinda missed the point, huh?
Kilgore Trout
Misanthropic Humanist
Yes, apparently you have.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
I'm not sure what your point could be, to be honest. The Bible lays down premises of how the world works; anything logically derived from those premises is fair game, scriptural or not.
If there are movie theaters & fine restaurants in Heaven,
then no children go there....not even the good ones.
But if Chinese restauranteurs run heaven, there will be children.
(No, Kilgore, not on the menu!
then no children go there....not even the good ones.
But if Chinese restauranteurs run heaven, there will be children.
(No, Kilgore, not on the menu!
pwfaith
Active Member
I suppose, if the only goal in life was to reach heaven. For most Christians, receiving salvation isn't the only goal in life
To me, it would be better to live life for God than die young. While dying young might ensure my entrance to heaven, I would still miss a whole life with my loved ones and a whole life of being able to serve God here and share the gospel with other and love them with God's love. I am not sure I understand the bolded. Nobody fails and messes up in order to attain heaven. Failures, mess ups, sin - whatever you want to call it - is simply a result of being a sinful human being, imperfect and living in a fallen sinful world. In fact quite the opposite is true, sin is what keeps us from heaven, not helps us attain it. It is grace through which we attain salvation, and we receive that grace through our faith.
Another theological issue I see in your post is the idea that killing someone results in rejection from heaven. Killing in and of itself is not wrong. Murder is wrong. However neither will automatically result in ones rejection from heaven's gates. While our actions, words and attitudes should reflect Christ's likeness, these are not the things that determine our salvation. As I said above it is the acceptance of God's grace through our faith that makes that determination.
IMO the most selfless/humble act possible is to give ones life to Jesus Christ as soon as one comes to the understanding that they sin (do wrong things) and ask God's forgiveness for doing wrong. You get to live life AND obtain eternity with God
The best of both worlds! I prefer to teach my children about their need for God's forgiveness and how to live according to God's word and pray for the Holy Spirit to draw them closer to God so they will come to that saving knowledege of Jesus Christ at an early age and get to live a whole life with them, seeing them grow, learn, love and become the man and woman God would have them to be, than kill them at an early age just to guarantee their salvation. There is absolutely no way of knowing when someone has come to that point of the "age of accountability", only God can see someone's heart and know when they have reached that point. Who in the world would want to play Russian Roulette with their child's eternal life if given the choice? Not me!
Breathe
Hostis humani generis
As I do not believe in a concept of Hell, and I'm ultimately a universalist, I believe that everyone ultimately ends up in the same place, when we "wake up".
I do not believe in punishment for disbelief, much less something like an eternal Hell. Nor do I believe in a reward simply for belief.
I do not believe in punishment for disbelief, much less something like an eternal Hell. Nor do I believe in a reward simply for belief.
Skwim
Veteran Member
Agreed.
pwfaith
Active Member
According to my studies, all the times Jesus talked about hell, he talked of it as a consequences. I saw this explanation online and thought it was great:
A consequence is the result of an action. The Bible tells us, "All have sinned and fallen short of the glory of God" (Romans 3:23), and "The soul that sins, it shall die" (Ezekiel 18:4). In this case, sinning against God is the action, the consequence of which is death and eternity in Hell (Revelation 20:15).
Now, there are two types of consequences: 1) natural, and 2) artificial (or imposed). A natural consequence is something that takes place as the result of natural law or physical conditions. For instance, if you jump off of a bridge, the consequence is that gravity pulls you down to the earth. By contrast, an imposed or artificial consequence is something that men ordain. For instance, the consequence of breaking the speed limit is a traffic citation.
Nature doesn't punish. The fact that gravity pulls you down to the earth is not nature's way of showing you that it's angry with you; it's simply due to the behavior of physical objects that are in close relation to one another. It's a consequence but not a punishment. On the other hand, the traffic citation is both: in that case, punishment is the consequence of violating the law.
Sinning against God carries punishment as its consequence, and so it is both.
The good news it that you don't have to face that punishment. Christ has already taken your sins upon Himself and paid the penalty for them. If you believe in Him, you can escape the penalty of (as well as the power of) sin, and so avoid the wrath of God.
Hell is the result (consequence) of not accepting Jesus as one's Lord and Savior. Heaven is the result (consequence) of receiving God's grace through faith in Jesus as Savior.Now, there are two types of consequences: 1) natural, and 2) artificial (or imposed). A natural consequence is something that takes place as the result of natural law or physical conditions. For instance, if you jump off of a bridge, the consequence is that gravity pulls you down to the earth. By contrast, an imposed or artificial consequence is something that men ordain. For instance, the consequence of breaking the speed limit is a traffic citation.
Nature doesn't punish. The fact that gravity pulls you down to the earth is not nature's way of showing you that it's angry with you; it's simply due to the behavior of physical objects that are in close relation to one another. It's a consequence but not a punishment. On the other hand, the traffic citation is both: in that case, punishment is the consequence of violating the law.
Sinning against God carries punishment as its consequence, and so it is both.
The good news it that you don't have to face that punishment. Christ has already taken your sins upon Himself and paid the penalty for them. If you believe in Him, you can escape the penalty of (as well as the power of) sin, and so avoid the wrath of God.
With a hell that means that a judgement will come about for humans. I just couldn't see a judgement going badly for a baby even if they are an unbelieving heathen. At most the kid would have to be able be judged on something which really couldn't happen until they know better. Once they are accountable is it really too late for them? If any sort of judgment is supposed to be fair then the hellish punishment should fit the crime which would also include true intentions of the individuals.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
But those consequences don't happen naturally, and they aren't immutable. God is responsible for them, and so he can rightly be blamed for any injustice they cause.